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Israel Cries Wolf

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posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 


I think the differnce between the Israeli/Palestinian land issue and the America/Native Indian land issue you refer to is time and law.

When people came to North America from overseas and took up residence in what is now North America and displacing the natives, happened *before* we had the UN, Internatinal Treaties, Human Rights laws and regulations, etc.

I'm not saying that makes what happened to the native Indians right or 'ok' by any means.

But the difference comes when comparing what happened with Israel - Israel took occupation of land that wasn't theirs in a time when we should know better and have laws, bodies and regulations to manage, monitor and reguate these sorts of issues. Instead, Israel was allowed to take the land and displace the Palestinians there and so far, have yet to give it back.

And this all happened under rules and regulations, meaning it should be *easy(ier)* to enforce a hand-back due to what was documented and observed by a world body.

Well, that's why I think you can't compare the 2 scenarios with each other.



I know, how about every country that gained territory through military conquest, each country that has done so throughout history must give that
land back? NO? Hmm, what if the UN demanded it?


Well, I'm sure the are instances of that. Didn't the UK return sovereignty to Hong Kong? And Portugal to Macau? Netherlands and Indonesia? Or is that not what you were referring to?




posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by skeptic_al
If I was jewish I'd come over to your house, kick you out,
bulldoze it, change the law so can't claim ownership, then build
my own house on the land. And if you don't leave I'll call the Police
because you're trespassing and they will beat the snot out of you.

As you reckon possession is 99% of the Law, tough s#it


But I'm not Jewish, so I won't.


But that is NOT, absolutely NOT what happened! You are rewriting history to fit a LIE you want people to believe in! That is wrong!

Israel WAS ATTACKED! Those countries that attacked Israel lost that land because Israel WON and the attackers were defeated! Israel after defeating those Countries who attacked them... They (Israel) decided to keep the land they conquered from Syria, Egypt, etc... you know those countries who attacked Israel!

How does your statement even remotely fit the facts and the history of what ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

It doesn't... you know it, so you make crap up! Right? Wow, you ignore the facts to fit your conclusion... brilliant... Well only to idiots who refuse to learn the truth!

--Charles Marcello



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by walsbg22
 


The fact that you support people like Olmert & Netanyahu who are renown criminals is proof in itself that you have no credibility whatsoever. How can you take the moral high ground and support criminals like Olmert, who has made a living out of stealing money from a disabled childrens charity to fund his own lavish lifestyle. It's obvious where you are coming from, because just like the Israeli government, the only thing you're peddling is lies, propaganda, hatred & ignorance.

Iran has done nothing to justify being attcked, unlike the Israeli government who are well over due for their come uppins and as far as most decent people in this world are concerned, any attack on Iran without provocation will be seen as an act of terrorism and there will be serious repercussions for anyone involved in such an attack.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Israel is not above international law. It's about time the UN treated both Israel and Iran equally. If Iran can't have nuclear weapons, then neither can Israel. If Israel refuses to comply, then it's time to impose sanctions.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by kindred]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by littlebunny
 


I think the differnce between the Israeli/Palestinian land issue and the America/Native Indian land issue you refer to is time and law.

When people came to North America from overseas and took up residence in what is now North America and displacing the natives, happened *before* we had the UN, Internatinal Treaties, Human Rights laws and regulations, etc.

I'm not saying that makes what happened to the native Indians right or 'ok' by any means.

But the difference comes when comparing what happened with Israel - Israel took occupation of land that wasn't theirs in a time when we should know better and have laws, bodies and regulations to manage, monitor and reguate these sorts of issues. Instead, Israel was allowed to take the land and displace the Palestinians there and so far, have yet to give it back.

And this all happened under rules and regulations, meaning it should be *easy(ier)* to enforce a hand-back due to what was documented and observed by a world body.

Well, that's why I think you can't compare the 2 scenarios with each other.



I know, how about every country that gained territory through military conquest, each country that has done so throughout history must give that
land back? NO? Hmm, what if the UN demanded it?


Well, I'm sure the are instances of that. Didn't the UK return sovereignty to Hong Kong? And Portugal to Macau? Netherlands and Indonesia? Or is that not what you were referring to?



First, I would love to read where it is written anywhere in the UN Charter rules and regulations, that if a country is attacked and it wins, and conquers land from its attackers, it must give the land back to the countries it defeated… You know give it back to the bastards who attacked you? That's only fair!? Where, oh where is that written? And how is attacking a country and losing, and demanding the country you lost to, after attacking them... how did you say that again... oh yeah... Is in the rules and regulations? The land being theirs is freaken mute, they have no leg to stand on... Those countries ATTACKED Israel and lost. Israel rightfully decided to take those lands away, by all of human history they have that right! Its not open for debate unless of course its against the Jews I guess!

Regarding the seconds statement… Hong Kong was given back to China by treaty, not anything the UN forced onto England. The UN has never told England, or France, Or the Dutch or the US to give back lands they continue to hold across this planet. Why? That is an important question, isn’t it? Now, England nor any other European Countries were asked to come aboard when they forced themselves into those countries, islands, yet in this, enlightened age (as I laugh), why oh why is old Europe still around? Where the hell is the UN? Oh that's right, their not Jews...

Oh I see, Europe didn't defeat those who attacked them, oh thats right, they destroyed all those who were weaker and still control those areas today. While Israel... They defeated their enemies who attacked them, how dare they!... BTW… Those lands don't belong to those so called Palestinians... They absolutely belong to Israel, but they used to belong to Egypt, Syria, and Jordan... But because they legally lost those lands to Israel, now you want us to believe these so called Palestinians deserve the land because they have murdered thousands and have terrorized millions for over 50 years? That is madness!

IF that madness makes since under that warped concept/bastardization of reality… Why should that not work with the Indians and the Mexicans? I see, if its over 90 years in one final battle and just over100 years ago with another final battle, well then, shut up world…. But if its been only 40 years... well hell the world has all the say so in the world!? Wow! That is brilliant logic, as long as you're taking stuff away from Jews!

WOW, just wow!

--Charles Marcello

[edit on 9-4-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Yacov
It's about the only democracy in the region and the place teems with life!


It may have democratic elections but Israel is more of a Theocracy.
Similar religiously to the Islamic dominated areas around it.

- Lee



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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I think its time to get some facts straight there is a big myth how palistinians lived there for thousands of years. This is a lie prior to 1900 there was no one there it was a waste land and this is part of the reason the British gave it to the Jews. Where did the palistinians come from you ask?

All the evidence points to the neighboring Arab states of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. In 1922 the British Governor of the Sinai noted that ?illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria.? In 1930, the British Mandate -sponsored Hope-Simpson Report noted that ?unemployment lists are being swollen by immigrants from Trans-Jordania? and ?illicit immigration through Syria and across the northern frontier of Palestine is material.? The Arabs themselves bare witness to this trend. For example, the governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey el Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Hauran had moved to the Land of Israel. Even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Land of Israel, noted in 1939 that ?far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied.?

Far from displacing the Arabs, as they claimed, the Jews were the very reason the Arabs chose to settle in the Land of Israel. Jobs provided by newly established Zionist industry and agriculture lured them there, just as Israeli construction and industry provides most Arabs in the Land of Israel with their main source of income today. Malcolm MacDonald, one of the principal authors of the British White Paper of 1939, which restricted Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel, admitted (conservatively) that were it not for a Jewish presence the Arab population would have been little more than half of what it actually was. Today, when due to the latest ?intifada? Arabs from the territories under 35 are no longer allowed into pre-1967 Israel to work, unemployment has skyrocketed to over 40% and most rely on European aid packages to survive.

So Your true issue here is people moved into what was British territory. The british decided to allow Jews in to this area face it no one else wanted it.When they moved there they brought with them teachers architects and scientists which means businesses followed. Then neighboring countries saw they were building and irrigating and creating a society so as logic dictates they moved there for a better life.But this was never there land do not kid your self Yasser Arrafat himself admitted the Palistinian state was created by him!




posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by littlebunny

Originally posted by skeptic_al
If I was jewish I'd come over to your house, kick you out,
bulldoze it, change the law so can't claim ownership, then build
my own house on the land. And if you don't leave I'll call the Police
because you're trespassing and they will beat the snot out of you.

As you reckon possession is 99% of the Law, tough s#it


But I'm not Jewish, so I won't.


But that is NOT, absolutely NOT what happened! You are rewriting history to fit a LIE you want people to believe in! That is wrong!


Look, if you don't like that outcome you can always take your case to
the UN, and all you have to is convince the US reps to not veto it.
Mind you, if you did get a positive outcome from the US reps it would
be a first in the history for the US in the UN.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by milesp
reply to post by littlebunny
 


This littlebunny dude needs to get back on the meds.

I guess if i came into your home with a gun and said "sorry, its mine now", you'd say "Ok, fair is fair"? Not likely.



I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that..

Some people in here seriously need a chill pill, this ain't even a debate anymore it's fallen into school-children type back 'n forth, shouting loudest doesn't mean you're right, and dude... stop talkin about hand shandys.. don't see how thats relevant to anythin at all.

Edit after reading some of your other posts....

Nearly nothing you've said on here makes any sense, its a few big words thrown together with... cos they're not Jews at the end of every line

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ItsallCrazy]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:21 AM
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more european jews went to australia during and after WW2 than went to israel - after the leaders of soon-to-be-israel , handed over 400,000 hungarian jews to hitler , the survivors in europe vowed never to be under the zionists again and went as far away as they could.


oh , you do know that don`t you? that there was a deal to save nearly 1/2 million hungarian jews - yet the zionists in israel chose to not save them.

[edit on 9/4/09 by Harlequin]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by littlebunny





I can't even take what you say seriously, littlebunny. What do you have to back up any of your claims? I've read this entire thread and you are acting like a juvenile (in which case you may be, but whatever) You really just need to calm down and stop with the "macho-blow-everything-up-let's-kill-innocent-lives-with-mass-violence" deal.

This is probably a dumb question, but can anyone on here give me a non-biased definition of Zionism? Is it just one who is in favor of Israel pretty much? Regardless of their actions?





[edit on 9-4-2009 by AllinTheMind89]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by AllinTheMind89
 



Zionism is the international Jewish political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine. The area was the Jewish Biblical homeland, called the Land of Israel (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el). Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.


taken from wiki citing

("Zionism," Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary).

as the source

so yes , its someone who supports the land of israel above all else. They`re are jewish zionists and christian zionists (which is quite strange reallly - christians supporting , above and beyond there own professed religion - another)


so whilst you have zionist jews , you also have none zionist jews for example , persian jews , who see it as a mortal insult everytime the zionists offer them $5000 to move to israel - where they will be treated as third class citizens like the Sephardic jews are.

[edit on 9/4/09 by Harlequin]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by milesp
 


That is the tactic of the 'bleeding heart' do gooders of the world; point out some convoluted example of someting not even the topic as an excusing reason for whatever cause they wish to back or ignore.

THE POINT IS Iran IS evil and they ALMOST have nukes and as soon as they can launch them they will. Last time I checked neither the Turks or Kurds had nukes. Further, we did not sell the Turks arms KNOWING they were going to murder the Kurds.


Edit for typo

[edit on 4/9/2009 by SGTChas]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by SGTChas
 



THE POINT IS Iran IS evil and they mostly have nukes and as soon as they can launch them they will.


"Mostly have nukes" ey?

Let's go through the "Build yourself a Nuclear Bomb Checklist" shall we?

Ready Iran?

1. Can you enrich U-235 Uranium Hexaflouride to 75% or greater to create U-238?

No.

2. Can you output several kilotons of enriched Uranium or Plutonium per month?

No.

3. Do you have heavy-water reactors or fast neutron reactors?

No.

4. Do you have military satellites in Orbit able to relay guidance data to ICBM's?

No.

5. Do you have any ballistic missiles capable of hitting the continental United States?

No.

6. Are you under intensive UN Economic sanctions than prevent the import of many critical pieces of equipment that are required for Nuclear weapons construction like Zippe-Type Centrifuges, Tungsten control rods, RHUs?

Yes.

7. Has Russia supplied you any nuclear fuel for your Bushehr Enrichment facility?

No.

8. Has Russia completed construction of the Bushehr Enrichment facility?

No.

9. How many pressurized water reactors do you have in total?

4.

10. Which is the enrichment level of fuel by products from these reactors?

2.4 - 4.4%


Oh dear...

I'm sorry Iran it looks you failed every requirement in Checklist. You can't build yourself a Nuclear bomb after all.

And at this rate, you never will. Not even in a century.

Have a nice day.

[edit on 9/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by milesp
 




THE POINT IS Iran IS evil


I just have to laugh at anyone who labels an entire country evil. I bet you're fist in line to sort out any 'America haters' too. Oh the irony.



Originally posted by littlebunny
How foolish of the Jews to demand they be treated with the same respect every other country on the planet enjoys/demands. Them damn Jews how freaken dare they, its simple, do as you‘re told… I mean, you‘re only Jews!

Simple! ... NOT! (Well your reason was simply ridiculous!)

--Charles Marcello


Lets hold a mirror up to your face, shall we?

How foolish of the Palestinians to demand they be treated with the same respect every other country on the planet enjoys/demands. Them damn Palestinians how freaken dare they, its simple, do as you‘re told… I mean, you‘re only Palestinians!

The terrible thing is, you actually believe it.


As for the article itself, fantastic - someone speaking truth in the MSM for a change... is there an ulterior motive though?



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 


very interesting that your making israel = jew in your statements

i personally dispise what teh extremists in israel are doing to there very own people , let alone anyone else - and yet i have many followers of judaism as close personal friends.


you see you are trying to reinforce what israel want - that you cannot seperate the stae from religion


ecept with israel you MUST.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by killuminati2012

Originally posted by mybigunit
What is interesting is it is even written by a Jew. I guess he will be called a self hating Jew after this article. Im starting to see more and more Jews stand up against the atrocities in the middles east done by Israel and their imperialistic government and it is needed. Just like we need the Muslims to come out and stand up against atrocities by their extremists the Jews need to do the same so do the Christians for that matter. This is a great article and Im glad to see it in the main stream. We need to start looking at Israelis policies because whether you like it or not they do affect us directly.


Does anybody recall the Jewish rabbis meeting with Ahmadenajad where they agreed with him about Israel? There are plenty of Jews who don't support Zionism, but you never hear why in the media.

The Jews believe that the messiah will return and guide them back to the promised land. Of course no messiah has appeared, so they aren't justified in supporting Zionism as it stands now.

I know this is a bitter subject and everybody has strong feelings about it. But the truth of the matter is that Israel is the heart of the probelms in the Middle East. Is it that hard to put yourself in the Palestinians' shoes? How would you feel if somebody took up your land and enforced policies that only made your life worse? They call the Palenstinians' actions terrorism, but what else are they supposed to do? They would fight a conventional war if they had the means. But they don't, because they are forced to live a life of poverty due to Israel's actions.

Of course, both sides need to confront reality and learn to get along. This won't be easy, but a good start is going one step beyond recognizing a Palestinian State. Israel needs to take down their checkpoints and the wall so the Palestinians can go about their lives. The checkpoints are what many of them are angry about. You can't fault the Palestinians until Israel has made a concerted effort to treat them like human beings. People that depict Israel as a victim are clearly biased or uninformed. I'm glad to see that many more people are recognizing the situation for what it is, and not just what they are told.


Before the Messiah returns the Temple Mount with its Mosque on top needs to be replaced with a Jewish temple and if that does not happen then the delay of the end times is held back by that, a blessing for the rest of mankind and a curse for the Jews.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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When you start defining conflict as in God's name or with God on our side... all reason goes right out the door and this is true regardless of religion or state.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


I wonder if you have been in Iran. I have and they hate with a passion EVERYONE who they consider to be ‘infidels’. To my face one Iranian Ghods Force Sergeant (Iranian Special Forces Terrorist Training & Insertion Troops) said, “We will never rest until the Great Satan (USA) and the whore (Israel) are destroyed! We will tell you what you wish to hear, sign your peace treaties and then when able, strike!” Caught the sucker with a load of simplex plastic explosive being smuggled into Palestine from Lebanon.

What all you sadly misinformed Palestinian supporters do not know is history; “Palestine” was created by Roman Emperor Titus after he sacked Israel and scattered the Jews throughout the Empire. The “Palestinians” were refugees from other conquered nations placed in “Palestine” as Roman surfs.

Twice other Arab nations offered them land for there own nation and they refused. Every peace treaty they have had with Israel THEY broke: “Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.” Yasser Arafat

They purposely attack Israel with rockets and mortars and then hide them in family homes and schools, knowing that Israel must take them out to protect their people; then they cry, “Massacre! Genocide!” when they get the results of their provocation. Yes the poor peace loving Palestinians; ignorance gone to seed.

Koran quotes on ‘peaceful’ Islam:

Sura 4 verse 74
74. … Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

Sura 9 verse 5..
5. Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Sura 4 verse 91
91…. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

These are just a few of the examples of how the Koran says to deal with 'Infidels' (us); you may want “dialog in the security council” about Iran like our President does, I however (having dealt with Iranians) am glad that Israel with their “Never again” attitude (forged by the concentration camp ovens of Nazi Germany) has the will and ability to take out Iran’s nuke capabilities. Further, it was Iran's President that stated he had everything needed to make a bomb and would use it as soon as he could.



[edit on 4/9/2009 by SGTChas]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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Despite repeated implied threats, Putin, has refused recently to pull Russian workers from Bushehr.

If the plant there is attacked, there will be Russian casualties.


My assessment, I feel in a military confrontation, Russia will resupply Iran.

During the start of the last Olympics when Putin was in China there was a military action in south Ossettia. It appears that Russian armored columns were to be "drawn out" and hit with precision munitions. Putin brought out the ss-18 mobile launchers.

If the Russians allow Iran to fall like Iraq, then they lose control of the Black Sea region and it is a total green light for an expanded missile defense shield in Eastern Europe.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by Goathief
 


I wonder if you have been in Iran. I have and they hate with a passion EVERYONE who they consider to be ‘infidels’. To my face one Iranian Ghods Force Sergeant (Iranian Special Forces Terrorist Training & Insertion Troops) said, “We will never rest until the Great Satan (USA) and the whore (Israel) are destroyed! We will tell you what you wish to hear, sign your peace treaties and then when able, strike!” Caught the sucker with a load of simplex plastic explosive being smuggled into Palestine from Lebanon.

[edit on 4/9/2009 by SGTChas]


I don't believe you. I'm assuming you're claiming to be special forces or something? Deny some ignorance and stop making false claims and sweeping generalizations.

Oh, and BTW, it's highly unlikely that the US was unaware of Turkey's campaign against Kurdish nationalists when arms were provided to them.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by milesp]

ps - sorry about the bold print. not sure why it's showing up like that.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by milesp]



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