Chemtrail Pilots ?

WEEDS mastery of the Delphi technique only works on those who ride bandwagons and drink kool-aid.

Originally posted by FX44rice
WEEDS mastery of the Delphi technique only works on those who ride bandwagons and drink kool-aid.

Ya!

Weed grow in the garden......

Do we want a garden or do we just want weeds?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
For 'interestedalways' and 'trey85'....

I am not sure what I need to disabuse you both of this silly concept of "chemtrails".

Will try, once more....hopefully, someone will understand.

What are observed, the 'contrails' are just that. Ice crystals that would NOT occur UNLESS a jet flew through the airspace.

IF, and only 'IF' there were a concerted effort to 'spray' some sort of terrible chemicals on the general populace, it woud be done from a very low alitude.

Again, sorry to 'burst your bubble'....

Don't ever address me weedwacker!

I leave you alone and you leave me alone.........but no!!!!

You drag me into your deluded magical world .................

leave me alone and I will give you the same respect.

Interestedalways is aware, are yoU????

Hi, chemtrails fans.

Don't care too much about the teenager that is "one lining". . . B-)
(that was answering to "interestedalways" & "trey85").
Some of these anti-chemtrailers, are also not "geting" that 9/11 was
a show to have the war accepted, and mostly, that the #7 building was
a **controled demolition** ! !

Let's be a little beside the topic here, for one little read:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and come back to topic, now. . .

If TPTB can lie to us with an incubators-teenage-girl, to fool the
masses in accepting the Iraqi war, and the never found
**mass destruction weapons**, they can EASILY set up the
9/11 show, and do experiments on us with chemtrails ! !

Edit for precisions on liner.

Blue skies.

[edit on 2009/5/7 by C-JEAN]

Originally posted by C-JEAN
Hi, chemtrails fans.

Don't care too much about the teenager that is "one lining". . . B-)
Some of these anti-chemtrailers, are also not "geting" that 9/11 was
a show to have the war accepted, and mostly, that the #7 building was
a **controled demolition** ! !

Let's be a little beside the topic here, for one little read:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and come back to topic, now. . .

If TPTB can lie to us with an incubators-teenage-girl, to fool the
masses in accepting the Iraqi war, and the never found
**mass destruction weapons**, they can EASILY set up the
9/11 show, and do experiments on us with chemtrails ! !

Blue skies.

F you............

And the horse your rode in one (William Coopers white one)

Don't shatter my illusions!

I better shut up now or I may be eliminated!

Hahahah!

Originally posted by Wakeupcall

Originally posted by trey85

Originally posted by Wakeupcall
Just curious, but how do you differentiate between chemtrails and normal contrails? Or are all contrails chemtrails?

I'm not buying it personally. I have too much experience in avaiation that points to contrails. Plus I've got a heavy dose of common sense, Occams Razor and all.....

Red

Well being your the one with avaiation experience you tell us. whats the difference? theres definely a visual one.You could be right but saying you have common sense proves NOTHING.

From my perspective, thats just it, I see no difference! I was asking people like you what the difference is. You say there is clearly a visual one. So you tell me what I am missing. What do I look for in a Chemtrail vs. normal everyday contrails?

I wouldn't say common sense proves nothing, so far it tells me that Chemtrails are nothing more than conjecture. Please convince me otherwise.

The reason you cant tell the difference between chem trails and contrails is simple no such thing as chem trails. Any body with even a basic understanding of why aircraft fly knows they fly by creating low pressure on the top of a wing. Guess what happens when a low pressure system and a high pressure system meet? Weatherman call them clouds. The other contrails are formed threw heat air runs threw the engine gets hot cools off quickly on leaving engine and forms yet again ice crystals. So there are 2 types of contrails so your partially right sorta.

The reason you cant tell the difference between chem trails and contrails is simple no such thing as chem trails. Any body with even a basic understanding of why aircraft fly knows they fly by creating low pressure on the top of a wing. Guess what happens when a low pressure system and a high pressure system meet? Weatherman call them clouds. The other contrails are formed threw heat air runs threw the engine gets hot cools off quickly on leaving engine and forms yet again ice crystals. So there are 2 types of contrails so your partially right sorta.

Is anyone debating what contrails are? You are correct unless one is an aborigine that has never had sight of a jet-powered aircraft in high altitude flight, they understand and are quite familiar with contrails.

Unless you have personally examined alledged chem-cloud matter with the proper identifying and lab analysis equipment, you don't know squat.

I suppose you were bought hook line and sinker that Iraq had WMD's,As pointed out in an above post. "Yep the Govt says so Clem, dey got em, let's go ged em, coot, coot"

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Wakeupcall

Originally posted by trey85

Originally posted by Wakeupcall
Just curious, but how do you differentiate between chemtrails and normal contrails? Or are all contrails chemtrails?

I'm not buying it personally. I have too much experience in avaiation that points to contrails. Plus I've got a heavy dose of common sense, Occams Razor and all.....

Red

Well being your the one with avaiation experience you tell us. whats the difference? theres definely a visual one.You could be right but saying you have common sense proves NOTHING.

From my perspective, thats just it, I see no difference! I was asking people like you what the difference is. You say there is clearly a visual one. So you tell me what I am missing. What do I look for in a Chemtrail vs. normal everyday contrails?

I wouldn't say common sense proves nothing, so far it tells me that Chemtrails are nothing more than conjecture. Please convince me otherwise.

The reason you cant tell the difference between chem trails and contrails is simple no such thing as chem trails. Any body with even a basic understanding of why aircraft fly knows they fly by creating low pressure on the top of a wing. Guess what happens when a low pressure system and a high pressure system meet? Weatherman call them clouds. The other contrails are formed threw heat air runs threw the engine gets hot cools off quickly on leaving engine and forms yet again ice crystals. So there are 2 types of contrails so your partially right sorta.

I love how I keep getting miss quoted on this one.I guess I'll say it again the whole "chemtrail conspiracy" is based on the long cloud that disperses over time that comes out of planes opposed to when nothing but quickly disappearing vapor lookin substance comes out(YES THIS IS A VISUAL DIFFERENCE REGARDLESS IF IT BLOWING MARJUANA SMOKE OUT THE BACK OF THEM) and once again I never said they couldnt both possibly be "contrails"(like a few post back Im not saying this is real or isnt both sides have good arguements) just that there is defenely two different appearences that come out the back of planes.You show just how much you know about the subject when you dont even know what the debate is over.I dont care how fake/unreal/not true they might be dont post on topics if you dont know what there talking about.I dont run around trying to find random threads that look unrealistic and just start assuming what they are and and jump in the middle of them and start commenting I expect the same in return.Also before this one gets brought up for the 10000th time again just like this one.The high altitude that make it impossible for them to hit there target.Weather the conspiracy is true are not this is not what it consist of.They are not playing "sniper" it wouldnt matter where it blows its target is the mass population not on top of someones house.This is what the chemtrail conspiracy consist of other than H.A.A.R.P (weather manipulation) there was a good link on this a few post back.In this case the target wouldnt even be the ground.Please dont comment on this one either unless your willing to go read on the subject before you post.And once again Ill say all opposing views are welcome if thay actually have a reasonable comment and know what the subject is about.

In my opinion 'chemtrails' is the weakest and silliest 'conspiracy theory' espoused, except maybe David Icke's 'the royal family are lizards' one

In my time on ATS I have seen;

PROOF of a chemtrail pod on a secret aircraft!

This was a photo of an FR Ltd Mk 10 hose drum unit on a French air force tanker, the response from the chemtrail junkies was "well, it COULD be modified to be used in such a way!" Very weak guys.

PROOF of Chemtrail spraying in a grid pattern over North West England, after all, why would an airliner criss cross the sky, eh, eh?

This was a photo of the sky above Manchester Airport, one of the busiest in the UK and also over the wettest part of the UK where every plane in the holding pattern was leaving vapour trails as well as every aircraft on route to various destinations in the very strictly regulated air lanes that chemtrailers seem to have no knowledg of, apparently assuming that planes leave airports in a straight line for their destination leaving some sort of star pattern.

and finally in this post, 'cos I can't be bothered with any more, PROOF that chemtrails exist because some vapour trails disperse quickly while others spread and hang about for hours.

I never knew that simply ignoring the different effects that different heights, temperatures, wind speeds etc will have on a vapour trail was proof of anything.

Ever wonder why cropdusters fly so low? After all, instead of repeated passes over the crops one pass higher up would be much cheaper, except it wouldn't work, the dispersal of the chemicals would make it useless! And that would be from a few hundred feet not 40,000.

What is the purpose? Is it poisoning? Why are we not all dead after 50+ years of it? Is it mind control? Why are YOU asking 'awkward questions' then? Does it not work? So why worry.

Chemtrails? Bah, humbug!




[edit on 7-5-2009 by waynos]

reply to post by FX44rice


Trying to prove your point by bringing up something else does nothing other than show you have no proof to back your assertions. If chem trails existed than there would have something to make them different the contrails as has been shown on multiple discussions there is nothing that makes them different there fore if there not different guess what there a contrail.

reply to post by dragonridr


dragon and FX....I think you are fighting and not realizing that you are actually agreeing, here!!

Since this is YET another 'chemtrail thread'....here's the definitive response:

Many ATS members get irritated at me for repeating this...THEY have a 'belief'....I have experience and knowledge.

Regardless of the "chemtrail" believers' ever-present attempts to promote their 'theories' they still fail to provide anything new. EVERY attempt is shown to be 'old news'....thoroughly debunked countless times.

In order to have an effect in the atmosphere, it would require a HUGE, and I mean huge!!!! ability to spread over MILLIONS of square miles!!!!!

People see something in the sky, and imagine some sort of 'planned conspiracy'. It is ludicrous.

Here's something else to consider: This so-called 'chemtrail conspiracy'
if it is intended to alter the World's climate, would be focused nearer the Equator, and just in the Latitudes between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.

We have ATS members from Scandanavia claiming they see "chemtrails"....really??!!?? Come on, this makes no sense. Unfortunately, this ridiculous notion persists because of 'snake-oil' salesmen who profit from these idiotic 'claims'.

A person properly educated can see through the 'smoke-and-mirrors' of this deception. Hopefully, this ATS website will help to educate and warn, before anyone falls prey to this scam.....


edit = typos



[edit on 5/7/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weed and Dragon - There has been no proof acquired to this date of Chemtrails alledged to be utilized for:

- Poisoning Populace: Only Claims of feeling ill after witnessing swelled persistent Con-trails in suspect patterns and quantity.

- Weather Modification: No official mention by Govt's verifying aircraft dispersement of such WM material.

However,

OJ Simpson DID NOT kill his wife or Ron Goldman. NO PROOF of any such action by OJ ocurred. You each believe that, that is IGNORANCE.
**(Sorry Dragon that will be over your head to correlate)**

Chem-trails are not Fact at this point. However, they have not been Dis-proven either, as no official analysis has been performed on suspect Chem-trail clouds.

Con-trails alledged to be Chem-trails do in-fact warrant further investigation, unless you are comfortable with anything suspect occuring around you without investigating.

You each probably sucked in second hand smoke with pleasure for decades. Until your brain (the Govt.) told you it was dangerous.

Hey guys, new to the board, thought I'd pop in here.

I for one can not even wrap my head around the whole "chemtrail" conspiracy theory. The idea is plausible, yes, you could spray chemicals into persistent contrails, but why? As many others have posted here, it would be incredibly ineffective. By the time any "chemtrail" chemicals make it to the ground, they would be in ppm.

I mean seriously, they whoever "they" are, would have a better chance of poisoning me by putting chemicals in dog food, so that way they can implement their nefarious plan by poisoning me by means of...."chemfarts" lol.

No offense to anyone here, but chemtrail believers kinda remind me of Dr. Evil from Austin Powers, lol.
Here's a quote

Dr. Evil: Scott, I want you to meet daddy's nemesis, Austin Powers
Scott Evil: What? Are you feeding him? Why don't you just kill him?
Dr. Evil: I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death.
Dr. Evil: All right guard, begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping mechanism.
[guard starts dipping mechanism]
Dr. Evil: Close the tank!
Scott Evil: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They could get away!
Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What?
Scott Evil: I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!
Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.

Anyways, regardless of the overwhelming evidence pointing that the chemtrail conspiriacy is BS, I dont see this debate ever really ending.

Just my $.02



[edit on 7-5-2009 by ZombieJesus]

reply to post by ZombieJesus


I think the problem with the discussions on Chem-trails is exactly what you referred to.

Conspiracy theorists that argue Govt's or TPTB are "Poisoning Intentionally" for population reduction, mind control, etc., etc. are far stretching it, and suffer paranoia.

A reasonable, rational, and worthy of further investigation theory is as follows:
- The world Govt's are in fact "Paranoid" about Global Warming and catastrophic Global Climate Change. As there is NO PROOF of Global Warming vs. Global Cooling, Man vs. Nature as cause.

- The Govt's are studying, developing, funding, propagandizing, and executing Policy to combat the Alledged Global Warming issue.

- The track record and history of Govt actions can reasonably lead to the assumption that "experimental methods" of Climate Controlling Techniques are being tested and classified.

- The test methods could very well be include aircraft dispursement of Climate Altering chemicals and Particle matter

- The test chemical / particle matter may "UN-INTENTIONALLY" be harmful to "SOME" humans. Which cause allergic / sickness reactions.

**If anyone is unwilling to accept this reasoning they are Ignorant / Stupid. **

- Those unwilling to this reasoning were the ones perfectly fine Dumping Raw Sewage into natural bodies of water in the past.

That looks perfectly reasonable and sensible and may well describe something that is going on, I wouldn't kow one way or the other but can see the possibility.

BUT (at the risk of being ignorant and stupid) that is not the chemtrail conspiracy is it? Surely it is something else. The Chemtrailers, from my experience, have been arond longer than the climate change panic. They specifically talk about airliners spraying routes and whatnot.

What the theory you have posted above does also resemble however is a realisation, by persons unknown, that the whole chemtrail conspiray is so stupid that people are not buying it anymore, therefore 'we' need to tone it down a bit and tie it into a current issue that people are concerned about and may find believable. A rescue job.

I did notice that several chemtrailers on ATS only started talking about the climate control/change aspect after having several other theories rubbished quite comprehensively. So while there is definite merit in what you said as a theory in its own right, it's appearance in the chemtrail debate smacks of desperation, rather than investigation.

A crucial difference here is that any such experimental activity would be carried out by very small numbers of aircraft operating from military bases (such as the unmarked govt owned 737 and 757 aircraft that operate around places like area 51 and which have been photographed) and is a far different thing from the mass spraying all over the planet that the paranoid nutjobs beleive in.



[edit on 8-5-2009 by waynos]

Good thing to do is to start logging the flight path's and time's.

Then simply ring all your local airport's and confirm.

If the flight path's match then you have a result.

If the flight path's do not match then you also have a result.

It's not very hard to do this and you can work out if what you are seeing is a passenger aircraft or not.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Originally posted by h3akalee
Good thing to do is to start logging the flight path's and time's.

Then simply ring all your local airport's and confirm.

If the flight path's match then you have a result.

If the flight path's do not match then you also have a result.

It's not very hard to do this and you can work out if what you are seeing is a passenger aircraft or not.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

By local airports, what do you mean? Control tower, FBOs, flight schools? what exactly. They arent pay attention to airliners way overhead.

If you mean control towers, they do not pay attention to enroute aircraft overhead anyways, thats not their airspace to monitor. Well at least most places. In Mexico and Africa they do, but thats more for position reporting, since ATC radar is often nonexisen.

Being the the US Air Force as an aircraft mechanic I can say without a doubt that military aircraft are not distributing any sort of chemtrails. There's a couple of observations I've made during my work;

1. There's nothing in the aircraft that would be used for holding these chemicals, nor would there be anything that would distribute them. I've been on quite a few C-17's, have inspected every nook and cranny, and haven't found a single mystery chemical distributor or anything. There's simply no chemicals that shouldn't be on the plane, and there's not a single hose or pipe distributing anything outside of the airplane that shouldn't be there.

2. I know it's not mixed in with the JP-8 because I've been around enough running engines on the ground to notice that there's absolutely no white jets of chemicals shooting out the back. We get a bit of a cloud of smoke when it first starts up as normal, but once that's done there's virtually no smoke, and certainly nothing similar in size or even remotely resembling a contrail or chemtrail. And this includes engines running at full, they simply don't put out any big white trail when they're on the ground. I've never seen a big white cloud appear behind it until it was actually flying.

Now given that I can confirm that there's no extra reservoir that would hold any chemicals we know that it's not something that can simply be switched on or off during flight. It would leave only the jet fuel itself as suspect, however I've yet to see any cloud or residue or feel any kind of sickness from working near a working jet engine. So I'd say it can be ruled out that the JP-8 is suspect.

Guess that leaves us with it being condensation.

reply to post by cyberdude78


Good!!

Finally, a mechanic. I've talked my little fingers to the bone trying to explain from the Airline pilot's perspective, sometimes to little avail.

In spite of the most damning lack of logic on the entire subject -- 'spraying' at altitudes exceeding 30,000 feet being totally ludicrous, the Urban Legend of 'chemtrails' lingers on....(intentional pun).

This seems to have started because of a 'suggestion' that either there was a nefarious Gov't scheme to poison people (very dubious) or, it is a form of climate manipulation (again, seems unlikely when you consider A): How large the surface of the planet is and, B): That high, thin clouds tend to behave as a thermal blanket, rather than increasing albedo and hopefully reflecting sunlight, thus 'cooling'.

reply to post by h3akalee


There's a better way, Lee.

www.flightaware.com...

It is a live online flight tracker. It is updated by compiling all of the ATC RADAR and filed Flight Plan data.

You can enter the airport closest to you (In the US) and see all of the airplanes within about a fifty mile radius.

For non-pilots, the site may seem daunting. I'd be happy to interpret it for anyone who asks.