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At least 4 shot, 1 dead after shooting at Christian retreat in Calif.

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posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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say bye to your guns people
soon to be gone




posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Machetes and switchblades are illegal here in Chicago, and if you carry a knife the blade can't be any longer than three fingers and can't be concealed.

Is almost all the crime you see across the whole of America by your own sight or the sight of the msm? See we have an awful lot of crime here in Chicago where they use knives, bats, pipes, bricks, bottles, etc it's just not publicized as much.

We have this little thing called the second amendment that guarantees our right to bear arms and puts no limitations on what kind of arms we may bear.

I agree the police do need to be one (if not more) step ahead of the criminals, but there is no reason they need to be one step ahead of law abiding citizens, and the criminals don't obtain their guns legally.


I have been caught smack dab in the middle of two rival gangs shooting at each other (believe me it wasn't fun) and they all had handguns, we have been shot at while doing nothing but sitting on our front porch (we live on the wrong side of a border between two rival gangs) and they had handguns. My sons have lost two good friends, innocent victims of handgun crimes, as have i when i was younger. So i know first hand that the tough gun laws that we have here in Chicago do nothing to prevent these crimes, maybe what would work is if they had to worry that the next innocent person they targeted had a legal gun of their own to defend themselves with. Even with all i've seen and lost due to some criminal with a gun it still doesn't change my belief in our second amendment rights.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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Um yes, we should be better off than law abiding citizens too. There is no saying who might steal your high powered weapon and use it for a crime, or who knows maybe you will later on use it against us.

Im not saying you shouldnt be able to have a gun... Im saying the civilians have NO reason to own an AK and should be limited to hunting weapons, pump action shotguns and bolt action rifles. They get the job done but are wayyy less likely to be used in a crime. Everything I see is small concealable, small auto like the MAC-10; semi auto rifles, modified assault rifles... not fun.

Even though most weapons used are illegal and smuggled from Russia etc many are bought legally by law-abiding citizens and sold to criminals. So the system doesnt work. Its like a 19 year old buying a kid alcohol.

You can use the argument that guns can save lives but the people who usually say this arent being shot at by assault weapons. So dont give me that. The reason politi also have baton and pepper spray and taser and cetera is because the handgun is supposed to be the LAST thing you go for. Yet I hear so many people go oh what if a burglar is breaking into my home? Really! Would you actually kill him! Thats very disturbing to me that the first thing you think is to shooting him.

Im just saying that when it is EASIER to obtain a powerful weapon, such as in the US or Russia, it is far more likely to have a violent shooting. Yes, I know that even with just shotguns and bolt action rifles there would still be shootings, but I think it would be far less.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 



What is going on in America today?


Today? What exactly has changed drastically in the last 20 years in America in relation to mass-murder sprees?

And what do you expect when you can purchase yourself a 9mm from your local Walmart?

As I've said before, take away the EASIEST means to kill and the killing will surely decrease.

It won't stop and it's ridiculous to assume so, some of the first human skeletons found have spearheads in their skulls and ribcages.... That's within our nature.

But, shooting people dead is like flicking a light switch. It takes no conviction, courage or skill to kill with a firearm. You point and squeeze.

Like half these whackjob mass-murders and Columbine-copycats could have murdered 20 or 30 people at their schools by running around with a knife or a baseball bat.

I don't get why it's so hard to grasp the fact that; Easy access to firearms=More deaths. It really is that simple.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Two church members were shot to death and three others were injured after a gunman opened fire outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs as Sunday services were wrapping up.

The gunman was shot by a church female security officer and was found dead when police arrived at the scene, said Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers.

Police did not release the name of the security guard but said she "probably saved many lives today."


Since when does a church need an ARMED security guard?

Just a question, as I thought all religeon was supposed to be peaceful?.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 



Since when does a church need an ARMED security guard?


Sometimes it's hard to persuade people to give generously considering the State of the World and the complete lack of divine intervention....



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by DataWraith

Since when does a church need an ARMED security guard?

Just a question, as I thought all religeon was supposed to be peaceful?.


I was watching "Wild West Tech" on the History Channel a while ago and it used to be the case that pastors and or their assistants (I'm not up on church lingo) were armed all the time.

The reason they preacher or whoever waits out in front by the door isnt to greet the people as they leave but was originally to protect them from people waiting to accost or attack them for their religious belief.

So, weapons in church isnt the new thing. It would seem that the lack of weapons in church is the new thing.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



oh yeah, I'd forgot about the 'collection plate' .

give and ye shall recieve the love of the lord and live forever in the warmth of his yummy love.
not give and burn forever and feel the pain of eternal damnation .


Where's me wallet.??



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 



I was watching "Wild West Tech" on the History Channel a while ago and it used to be the case that pastors and or their assistants (I'm not up on church lingo) were armed all the time.


Yeah I know what you mean, there's a lot of highwaymen and roaming bandits who burst into Churches these days and whirl out their revolvers demanding everyone hands over their golden teeth, whiskey and coins, else otherwise they might start a-fussin'-and-a-feudin'.

We definitely need our Clergymen armed to the teeth. You never know what kind of nut might be waiting for you in a confession booth.

[edit on 9/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


See that's funny, right? I mean, they dont need to arm themselves because nobody is going into the churches and causing harm, right? All the while because some psycho goes into a building and murders a half dozen or so people we need to get rid of the guns, right?

They dont need them anymore so we can get rid of them and because they could be attacked with them we should get rid of them.

Hmmmm......

They can't both be true, can they?



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 



All the while because some psycho goes into a building and murders a half dozen or so people we need to get rid of the guns, right?


I'd like to see that same psychopath accomplish mass-murder with a knife, or a crowbar or a baseball bat as easily as he does with a handgun.

Hell half of those Columbine-idol worshippers who copied Eric & Dylan probably never had the stamina to sprint a 100 yards without collapsing, let alone chase people and kill them with their bare hands.

Security guards at Campuses and Businesses I'm all for...
I just don't see why Churches, especially given the obvious hypocrisy that entails, need armed security guards.
That and you're reference to the Wild West...



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


If magically all of the tools and knowledge to manufacture firearms disappeared along with every firearm in existence with the possible exception of those used by security professionals who would magically never be crooked or corruptible or fallible or have any of their firearms lost, stolen or otherwise illegally transferred you'd have a point.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Yeah but gloss over the fact that the murder rate would fall by thousands per year when no longer, every dead-beat gangbanger, possessed "anti-christ" lunatic and estranged husband could just walk into Walmart and buy themselves a handgun.

Nobody here is proposing we control people's thoughts. Simply limit their ability to express their hatred physically.

It's a proven fact since the introduction of seatbelts and airbags, car fatalities have dropped sharply on a global level.

It's the same logic here. Safety precautions do work my friend.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


The Australian homicide rate has been pretty constant from before the ban to today, hasnt it? To say it'll drop by the thousands is a little bold.

www.aic.gov.au...

And since when can anybody just walk into a Walmart and buy a handgun? I think you're view on "ease of access" is a tad skewed.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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As far as this case goes, all I can say is I hope they took gunpowder residue readings from the hands of the second couple as well as from the handyman. From the evidence presented in the articles I've read so far, it may be just as likely that the second couple, or one of them, is responsible for the shootings and they are framing the handyman. Gunpowder residue from the pistol, and whose hands it is on, may be key to this case.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

I'd like to see that same psychopath accomplish mass-murder with a knife, or a crowbar or a baseball bat as easily as he does with a handgun.




A man who said he was tired of life went on a stabbing rampage in a popular Tokyo shopping district, killing seven people, Japanese media said.

The man drove a truck into a crowd of pedestrians and then attacked passers-by with a knife in Akihabara district, known for its discount electronics and maid cafes, at lunchtime.

"I came to Akihabara to kill people," Kyodo news agency quoted the attacker as telling police. "I am tired of the world. Anyone was OK. I came alone."

The rampage came on the seventh anniversary of a horrific massacre at a Japanese primary, when a knife-wielding former mental patient killed eight schoolchildren and tarnished Japan's image as a virtually crime-free society.

Six men, ranging from ages 19 to 74 were killed, as was a 21-year-old woman, Kyodo said.

A spokeswoman for the Tokyo Metropolitan Police confirmed that at least six people had been killed and another 12 wounded during that attack in the crowded street.

Police said they were unable to confirm whether or not the toll had risen to seven. Kyodo said a 33-year-old man was the latest to die following the attack.

"It's pretty shocking, considering that I come here all the time," a man told NHK television, which said the attacker was shouting as he cut down his victims.

tvnz.co.nz...


Police in South Australia say they've charged a man with attempted murder after he allegedly went on a rampage, randomly stabbing two women and running two men down in his four-wheel drive.

News Limited newspapers report the man was a transient who'd been staying in a caravan park at Snowtown with his dog after arriving in town a few weeks ago.

Police say the 42-year-old allegedly ran down a truck driver who was standing next to his vehicle at about 1.15pm local time, before ramming the rear of another vehicle which had two women sitting in it.

When they got out to investigate, the man allegedly stabbed both of them in the neck with a knife before getting back into his Toyota Hilux and running over a pedestrian who was pushing another man in a wheelchair.

He was subdued by three police officers.

The papers report a man in his 40s has been airlifted to the Royal Adelaide Hospital with pelvic injuries and internal bleeding, together with an 81-year-old woman with severe lacerations to the neck.

Locals have told News Limited the man was a loner who kept to himself.

www.stuff.co.nz...


CALGARY - A bloody parking lot where a woman was stabbed to death early yesterday morning was only the first step in a trail of violence that wounded four more victims -- all separated by dozens of city blocks, and each apparently picked at random.

Between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., Calgary police believe a group of armed men sped through empty streets in three quadrants of the city and stabbed five people -- one fatally.

The other four victims are expected to recover, but the killing and violent rampage prompted a police manhunt.

None of the victims appears to have been robbed. They shared no single common link of gender or age,

www2.canada.com...



Security guards at Campuses and Businesses I'm all for...
I just don't see why Churches, especially given the obvious hypocrisy that entails, need armed security guards.


whats the difference? crazy idiots will target helpless people in large crowds, churches, schools, malls, markets... everywhere except where large quantities of people have guns.. i dont recall any mass shootings at gun shows, NRA meetings or gun ranges... kinda weird huh???



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira


Yeah I know what you mean, there's a lot of highwaymen and roaming bandits who burst into Churches these days and whirl out their revolvers demanding everyone hands over their golden teeth, whiskey and coins, else otherwise they might start a-fussin'-and-a-feudin'.

We definitely need our Clergymen armed to the teeth. You never know what kind of nut might be waiting for you in a confession booth.


give me a break...



(CNN) -- The pastor of a Maryville, Illinois, church was shot to death during a service Sunday in front of horrified church members who then tackled the gunman, state police said.

Fred Winters, the pastor of the First Baptist Church, was shot and killed during the 8 a.m. service, and the attacker and two church members suffered knife wounds in the attack, authorities said.

www.cnn.com...

this guy used a gun AND a knife, but we should only restrict guns.. right?

oh and this...


CLIFTON, N.J. (AP) - Three people have been shot, one critically, inside a northern New Jersey Church. Some 200 people reportedly were inside the Asian-Indian house of
worship - St. Thomas Knanaya Church on Third Street in Clifton, Passaic County - when the gunman opened fire before noon today.


www.nbc13.com...

and this...


Jamie Parkey thought the blast that ripped through the sanctuary of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was part of the play his daughter and other children were putting on. Then he saw blood on another parishioner behind him and saw a man with a 12-gauge shotgun calmly firing away at the congregation.

“He had the gun leveled in our direction,” Parkey told TODAY’s Matt Lauer on Monday, one day after the gunman killed two church members and wounded six others before being wrestled to the ground by parishioners

www.msnbc.msn.com...


COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - A gunman killed one person and wounded four others before being shot dead by a security guard at a busy Colorado Springs megachurch on Sunday, authorities said.

www.msnbc.msn.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Your kidding me right?

In the 1980's, in pre-ban conditions, Australia was averaging several hundred murders per year. I think it was 1988 when we peaked with about 700 or so, our highest ever.

Since Port Arthur, we've been averaging less than 100 firearm murders per year.

Last year it was about 98.

Another golden example right here buddy



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


The rate has been pretty flat from 1993-2006

i40.tinypic.com...

For some reason 98-99 was a particularly violent year but it's not like after the gun ban there was some cliff face drop.

New Hampshire is statistically safer with less murder.

And we have a butt load of guns. Not that there is any connection. I'm just saying murder is murder and people will murder. The device used has nothing to do with anything.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 



New Hampshire is statistically safer with less murder.


New Hampshire doesn't have 20 million people in it, so obviously, a bit of a moot point.


For some reason 98-99 was a particularly violent year but it's not like after the gun ban there was some cliff face drop.


I urge you to look at this graph:


www.aic.gov.au...

Note 1996 and the ensuing drop from 550 to 300 or less. Of course you can't expect Australia to slash it's murder rate by thousands considering the fact we've never even been close to that figure and we only have 20 million people.

Proportionally, if these figures were extrapolated to the US, that would mean a drop in several thousand fatalities per year.


I'm just saying murder is murder and people will murder. The device used has nothing to do with anything.


As I said before, that's a given. Some of the first human skeletons found with spearheads in their skulls and ribcages.... That's within our nature.

That being said...
Take away the EASIEST means to kill and the killing will surely decrease.

Guns turn the act of murder into something detached, surgical and emotionless that any 15 year old kid can do.

[edit on 9/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]




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