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At least 4 shot, 1 dead after shooting at Christian retreat in Calif.

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posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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At least 4 shot, 1 dead after shooting at Christian retreat in Calif.


www.msnbc.msn.com

TEMECULA, Calif. - Authorities said late on Tuesday that at least four people had been shot and one killed at a Korean Christian retreat in Southern California.

Riverside County Sheriff's spokesman Dennis Guttierez said the gunman was likely one of the people hospitalized after the shooting Tuesday night in Temecula, about 85 miles southeast of Los Angeles.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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Another mass shooting?

We are now seeing one every week it seems like. What is going on in America today?

Still breaking news.


Mario Lopez of the California Highway Patrol said officers responded to the retreat at about 7 p.m. after hearing a man had shot his wife. He said one person was dead when they arrived.

Guttierez said the language barrier was making it hard to get all the facts and that some nuns at the scene were very distraught.






www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Unfortunately, when you live in a gun culture, there are going to be the idiots who think all their problems can be solved with a gun. That's why this crap happens so often in America.

While access to guns is so easy, I don't expect things to change. USA needs tougher gun laws and better screening and prerequisites for gun owners. Sure it wont completely solve the problem but it's a positive step toward it.

IRM

[edit on 8/4/09 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:56 AM
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KTLA News reported that the shooting occurred during some type of church retreat. Fox 11 said early reports indicated that four people had been shot, and two were in critical condition. KCAL-TV said authorities were searching for a 70-year-old man who is believed to be the gunman.


www.latimes.com...

Bit more information on the gunman.

There seems to have been a few shootings just recently involving Koreans. Wonder what, if any connection there is to all of them?
Strange coincidence.


[edit on 8-4-2009 by Flighty]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:56 AM
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For people to become shooters, they generally have to have a pretty crappy life or some sort. Instead of saying more gun control, more gun laws, it'd be nice if we'd focus on quality of life or very least adequate mental health care for everyone. I've never seen a happy shooter I don't think. It's a tragedy on both ends.

But 70 years old, that seems a bit odd.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by ghaleon12]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Please show me cases older than 50 years of these types of shootings. I'm not trying to instigate a flame war or anything I'm honestly curious if you think this is a new phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Multiple murders go back thousands of years, only the tool used changes.

The old testament is pretty much written in Blood, countless murders and genocides. This is not new phenomenom, just recieving more media exposure.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by Mr Headshot
 


I made my case already Mr Headshot! I mentioned nothing about age. Completely irrelevant to my standpoint!

IRM


[edit on 8/4/09 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


No matter what "culture" people live in there will always be "the idiots" that think all their problems can be solved with a gun, knife, baseball bat, bomb, car, etc.

This has nothing to do with our gun laws, it has to do with the unstable mind of the person that commited the act. Should we enact stricter knife laws for all the stabbings we have ? I'm sure there are some very strict laws regarding the use of bombs in countries that have problems with suicide bombings and such, but they still can't seem to stop that problem.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Please show me cases older than 50 years of these types of shootings. I'm not trying to instigate a flame war or anything I'm honestly curious if you think this is a new phenomenon.



I think the problem here isn't that mass murders like this didn't occur back then, rather, media technology just wasn't what it is today.

Mass murders back then might get read about in a local or state/provincial newspaper, but it wouldn't reach a national audience like it does with TV and the internet.

Plus, modern media loves to focus on the depressing news.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by johnsky]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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then why don't these shootings occur as frequently in other western countries that have strict gun laws? are Americans just stupider? or is it the guns?



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by chise61

there will always be "the idiots" that think all their problems can be solved with a gun, knife, baseball bat, bomb, car, etc.


Agreed! Completely!


This has nothing to do with our gun laws, it has to do with the unstable mind of the person that commited the act.


The ease with which someone can obtain a gun in America is an issue. It's one part of a multi-faceted problem. For instance, you can't blame the rain on Hydrogen alone. There's also the O2.

I agree that Mental health or health services in general are also a big problem. They suck in America (below Cuba FFS)! Combine guns, mental health issues and a sense of disenfranchisement together and you have a recipe for what we see in the Op.



Should we enact stricter knife laws for all the stabbings we have?


This is about guns mate. Let's discuss one thing at a time ehh!

IRM



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by chise61
 

You probably should have stricter knife laws. No machetes, switchblades, swords, I have seen kids buy them at places it is disgusting. You just know they are going to kill some poor animal.

Guns too. I suppose better background checks and moral standings could help but its really your word vs theirs. But like Americans can buy assault rifles and such... even if not automatic that just asking for trouble. Almost all crime I see goes with guns, and I'd say 90+% are smuggled and illegal. Theres a reason for restrictions so criminals cant obtain weapons better than the police, thats us, we need to be a step ahead. If you ever get into a shootout you will see what I mean.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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Shot his wife? We should probably ban marriage. Maybe just ban Asians. Bans are the most idiotic things. We all know murder is banned, right?

How come there were no threads about the Canadian woman who shot up a nursing home in Calgary last week? Damn Canada and their guns.

Such a stupid back and forth I can't believe it needs to happen daily.

You don't want a gun don't get a gun. Leave the rest of us alone.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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I shudder to think what the 2009 crime rates will be.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


You're obviously a BIG gun advocate judging by your avatar and "Come & Take It" motto. I can't help but feel that your opinion is somewhat biased. If your sane and use guns in a law abiding fashion, then you have no reason to whinge and whine about tougher gun control... no? It wont affect you will it!


By the way... what do you mean by "come and take it"? What exactly are you advocating? It does beg the question.

IRM



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 



"Come and take it" was a slogan used in the Texas Revolution in 1835. In March 1831, Juan Gomez, a Lieutenant in the Mexican Army, worked alongside Tadeo Ortiz, a consul at Bordeaux, France, and granted a small cannon to the colony of San Antonio. The small bronze cannon was received by the colony and signed for by Randy Tumlinson. It was then transported to Gonzales, Texas and later was the object of Texas pride. At the minor skirmish known as the Battle of Gonzales, a small group of Texans successfully resisted the Mexican forces who had orders to seize their cannon. As a symbol of defiance, the Texans had fashioned a flag containing the phrase along with a black star and an image of the cannon which they had received six years earlier from mexican officials.


I left CT because of their "tougher" gun laws which essentially amounted to a ban on aesthetics.

As a law-abiding individual I will be among the only group that is actually affected by any bans or legislation. That's the catch of 'tougher gun laws'. They only affect the law-abiding.

Edit to add: That is, unless you can explain to me how I will not be affected and how the criminal will be affected.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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clearly banning guns is the answer... because criminals obey laws, just like this guy in the OP right?

killing people is against the law, so is discharging a firearm in city limits, and he probably carried the gun loaded in his car on the way to the scene, also against the law (in cali). and he probably at some time had the gun(s) concealed on his person, also against the law.
Yes friends more laws will work against the lawless...


it doesnt work, even in canada..
www.torontosun.com...
www.wtopnews.com...


heres the response in israel, works better than waiting for swat or hoping the gunmen have mercy..


The gunman entered the library at the Mercaz Harav seminary on Thursday evening, where about 80 students were gathered, and fired an AK-47 rifle for several minutes, witnesses say.


One of the students, Yitzhak Dadon, reportedly shot the gunman twice before he was finally killed by an off-duty Israeli army officer, who had gone to the school after hearing gunfire.

"I shot him twice in the head," he told the Reuters news agency.

"He started to sway and then someone else with a rifle fired at him, and he died."

how many lives did this armed citizen save?

news.bbc.co.uk...


COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Two church members were shot to death and three others were injured after a gunman opened fire outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs as Sunday services were wrapping up.

The gunman was shot by a church female security officer and was found dead when police arrived at the scene, said Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers.

Police did not release the name of the security guard but said she "probably saved many lives today."

www.thedenverchannel.com...



[edit on 8-4-2009 by turbokid]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Perhaps you mean the ease with which someone can illegally obtain a gun in America is the issue.

To legally obtain a gun here in Illinois you must first apply for an FOID card form the state police, they do a background check before issuing it and it must be renewed every five years. There is a 24 hr waiting period for shotguns and rifles and a 72 hr waiting period for handguns. Federally licenced dealers must contact the state police for the background check of the purchaser. Your gun must have a trigger lock, or be unassembled, for child safety, even if you have no children in the house.

In Chicago all guns must be registered, there is a ban on handguns ( i believe since 83') the way they ban them is to simply refuse to register them. In Cook county (Chicago is in Cook county) you can not own a shotgun with a pistol grip (which is purely asthetics) as it is labeled as an assualt weapon.

Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in America and it does absolutely nothing to deter gun crimes, especially handgun crimes. Don't believe me, google it and see just exactly how many shootings we have here every year (especially with handguns which are banned here) most are gang related. Also compare the nimber of shootings before our tough gun laws and after, see if the gun laws have really helped. Maybe you are confusing our "gun culture" with our gang culture. So maybe you should focus your concern on our gang problems and how easily they can obtain guns instead of toughening already tough gun laws that have no effect where it's needed.

So in essence if i'm awoken in the middle of the night by someone entering my house with a gun i can say "i'm sorry but can you please hold on a minute while i get my shotgun out and take the trigger lock off so that i can defend myself"
I'm sure they're going to oblige
and before you say that's what the police are for, if i could call them by the time they get here i'll be dead along with my whole family.

Our gun laws do nothing but infringe upon the rights of law abiding gun owners. We have a right to defend ourselves, go hunting, target shooting, etc and we're damn tired of having our rights infringed upon because of people that do not abide by the laws.

I'm curious, is your knowledge of how easy it is to obtain a gun here in th US from personal experience, research, or assumption?



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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We don’t need more gun laws the government need to ENFORCE them better. Criminals don’t go buy legal guns, crack down on the black market in this country, and keep guns out of the hands of CRIMINALS not law abiding Citizens!

See there is something the media is not telling us about the Pittsburgh shooting, the guns where not legal the shooter had no 2nd amendment right because he was a felon after getting a dishonorable discharged!




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