Religion of science & knowledge?

Originally posted by tamusan
Hey Badmedia.
I simply no longer believe and I feel very comfortable with that. My life has not taken a turn for the worse, as some would predict. Actually, it is quite the opposite, my life is 1000% better than when I was a Christian. Please not not missunderstand me, I am making no claim that lack of faith has improved my life. I think that my current state would be about the same with or without faith.

You made many valid points and I want to acknowledge that they deserve a response. Time is short for me right now. I apologize.

The only problem is you are basing this opinion not on what either actually does, but based only on your general opinion of them. Each of them has a proper place, and they need to stay there. Those who want 1 or the other likely don't understand the one they don't like. As it turns out, it doesn't need to be an either or thing.

I'll touch on this really quick. I understand that I do not need religion to feel good about myself, to succeed, to help others, or to contribute to my society. I've made my mind up about God and I am very comfortable with my choice. I understand our existence in a manner that works for me. Just like you appear to understand it in a way that works for you. That brings me to my next point. Anytime we (you and I) will discuss religion, we most likely will disagree and that will lead to frustration, partly because neither of us have any empirical evidence. However, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with others, including you, and have a chance to listen to anything that can be addressed with empirical evidence. We could listen and discuss, we could see that we probably aren't all that different, and maybe we could get along. but bring religion into it and we will start to disagree again.

I think Christianity is the anti-christ religion, so it doesn't surprise me at all that leaving it would make you feel better. Christianity pays lip service to Jesus and tries to look good in the eyes of men.

The important thing is what you do in your actions, your fruits. It is in your actions and such that you either walk the path of Jesus, or you don't. And Christians do not.

Christianity as a religion is built on the sacrifice of truth, so that the lie of this world may live. And it's all spelled out in the bible. Where as Christians worship his death and believe they are saved by that, I believe in the example of Jesus and following his path, and in that path you are saved, as I mentioned before.

So being christian or not doesn't really matter, it's what actions you take that matter. That is where you can see the difference.

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I tell my friends who dislike Christianity they are more christian than those who call themselves Christians are. Simply because of their actions and the way they act.

Jesus says the least one can do is to believe for the very works sake. That means you don't have to believe him on the god and father stuff, the very least you can do is see where his example is true and right and follow that. As it is the minimum one can do, it is something all should be doing.

I mentioned before that quantum physics will prove Jesus right. Here is a thread that goes into more detail. I'd be happy to answer any questions, but I don't think anyone has actually done that(as far as I know).

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Buddha said -- Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

I find the life and example of Jesus to be good and benefits one and all, so I accept it and try to live up to it.

Originally posted by tamusan
You do not create light and then build a lightbulb. You do not create light and then build a fire.

Anyways, do we have to argue about these things? I will never believe again and I do not care if you stop believing or not.

Ok fine, what is the source of light in your dreams?

To be quite honest, you do not have the first clue what I believe, as you have never yourself known what I know, nor have you being a christian ever believed as I do.

But I actually do know your opinion and beliefs, because they were once mine. And only my own personal experiences were able to change that. I'm not a man of faith, I don't just "believe" in things for no reason. I wasn't born or brainwashed into saying what I say, and I'm not just repeating from a book or what people said.

So I do understand your position and why it is that way. My personal experiences is not an answer for you, nor should you just accept or believe me. As that would be the same as those who accept or believe the bible. The point is to actually understand and know for yourself. I am no authority for you, and neither is that church or that book. Neither is that scientist either etc.

But even though you no longer accept the bible and such, you still accept what other men say and so forth. You still accept and use memory rather than using intelligence. Intelligence today is spent towards "credibility", which is to establish an authority and then accepting what they say rather than actually understanding for themselves. It is this that I actually draw issue with among people, and I don't really care what your beliefs are. I am just as hard on Christians as I am on atheists.

What is this thread but simply an ask for changing the authority? Changing who is credible? Worthless IMO.

I don't care what people believe, what I care about is how they come to those beliefs. Because IMO, if people think for themselves they will come to the answers and such on their own. When people realize they can not trust ANY man, then they will quit accepting the BS that is feed to them and start thinking for themselves and start looking in the right direction for answers.

You can run around saying 1+1=2 because some authority with credibility told you that. But it's worthless if you can't actually add. Sure you can technically be right, but you are still ignorant. Thus, the point is to understand and know how to add, rather than running around repeating 1+1=2. The point is to teach people how to add, rather than getting them to repeat and worship 1+1=2.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by tamusan
You do not create light and then build a lightbulb. You do not create light and then build a fire.

Anyways, do we have to argue about these things? I will never believe again and I do not care if you stop believing or not.

Ok fine, what is the source of light in your dreams?

To be quite honest, you do not have the first clue what I believe, as you have never yourself known what I know, nor have you being a christian ever believed as I do.

But I actually do know your opinion and beliefs, because they were once mine. And only my own personal experiences were able to change that. I'm not a man of faith, I don't just "believe" in things for no reason. I wasn't born or brainwashed into saying what I say, and I'm not just repeating from a book or what people said.

So I do understand your position and why it is that way. My personal experiences is not an answer for you, nor should you just accept or believe me. As that would be the same as those who accept or believe the bible. The point is to actually understand and know for yourself. I am no authority for you, and neither is that church or that book. Neither is that scientist either etc.

But even though you no longer accept the bible and such, you still accept what other men say and so forth. You still accept and use memory rather than using intelligence. Intelligence today is spent towards "credibility", which is to establish an authority and then accepting what they say rather than actually understanding for themselves. It is this that I actually draw issue with among people, and I don't really care what your beliefs are. I am just as hard on Christians as I am on atheists.

What is this thread but simply an ask for changing the authority? Changing who is credible? Worthless IMO.

I don't care what people believe, what I care about is how they come to those beliefs. Because IMO, if people think for themselves they will come to the answers and such on their own. When people realize they can not trust ANY man, then they will quit accepting the BS that is feed to them and start thinking for themselves and start looking in the right direction for answers.

You can run around saying 1+1=2 because some authority with credibility told you that. But it's worthless if you can't actually add. Sure you can technically be right, but you are still ignorant. Thus, the point is to understand and know how to add, rather than running around repeating 1+1=2. The point is to teach people how to add, rather than getting them to repeat and worship 1+1=2.

This was quite well said.

We all read the same text and words.But we sure dont see the same images. That's why religion is so personal.

If i mention dimensions some people imagine a totally different world. Worlds inspired by books and movies. But in reality a dimension is something else.

reply to post by spy66


Yes exactly, hadn't gotten around to replying to your other post.

Good little video for those who aren't sure what you are talking about exactly.



If you really want to know why that happens, I can explain it for you. But I explain it in terms of how computers and such work, as I see this effect mirrored in databases, indexes and searching etc.

Think of it like Google search engine. Google carries indexes, where it searches for those indexs rather than all the content for speed. It returns the most relevant. If you go into google right now and type in "dog" it is going to return #1 the most relevant result to that. And when I say "dog" to you, then you automatically do the same thing and an image will appear. Now once you are in that index, you can then think of images of other dogs and so on, "other results", and google does that.

But then go to yahoo or another engine, do the same thing and you get a different result. Why? Well aside from it having different information it has different ways of getting it's results and so on. It is an entirely different perspective. Same word "dog" different index. Same thing we see in humans.

Only if each and every dog that ever existed was called something unique would you no longer have this effect. Then if someone mentioned that unique thing, then there would be no confusion about what is being said. And that is also when there is no index.

And index works like this. It counts the number of words present in something. So if you have 40 "memories" or 40 "documents" that contain the word dog, the index is like "Dog - 40". "Cat - 32". So then you search for dog, and you know it is present in these 40 documents etc. And so you put in the result that lists that. The most prevelant/recent/weighted dog comes first. And then from that, you can easily think of other dogs. But you always first when to that default result from that index, and then go on. This is really general explanation, these indexes are used in much more complex ways, like the more a word exists, the less value it has among the search string. But our brains use indexing and such in the same way.

Most people don't notice this process, and the only reason I really know/noticed it was from working on AI. RAM = short term memory, Hard drive = long term memory, etc.

Another thing we do and is why time seems to increase as we get older is we don't remember repeatative/duplicate things too much. So we don't remember each and every event etc. They end up "stacked" on top of each like in an index form, so when we think about our recent experiences we think of the unique things and leave out the repetative stuff. When you are a kid, everything is new and unique it seems, and it feels like time lasts forever and much longer.

Badmedia I don't dislike you as a person or anything like that but...

When I read your post it sounds like you just babble on about how great the bible is and make citations. People telling me how good the bible is, well it's getting old because that's all they do. The fact is the biggest influence in our lives for the overall betterment is knowledge and technology. It's a fact that they have both helped us overall. Most religions. Not so much.

You say don't worship the flesh, ect, and then you try to back that up with spiritual talk. Try telling that to the millions who starve everyday. We need to quit hoping for a better world and start creating it.

You seem like you know your stuff when it comes to bible studies and reflections and that is really a great thing. Now apply that to the world you are actively participating in everyday. I mean, the only reason religion has had a chance to even spread and gain so much power is through technology.

Overall here is what I would like to see happen. A sustainable world with free education for all. It is possible right now with our current technology and knowledge, it just takes mass collaboration. Once everyone can be fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated for very cheap or free then we should worry about religions, gods, the spiritual world. We are at a tipping point between a type 0 civilization and a type 1.

en.wikipedia.org...

It is the hardest jump from type 0 to type 1. We need everyone to be involved, so lets set aside petty differences and make this world a better place through actions.

Here's when the line is drawn in the sand. If there are people in this world today who are apathetic to help the world as a whole because they "know" and have read in a book that the world is going to end that is disgusting and ignorant on a whole other level. People running around talking about endtimes and such. Yes these days may seem like the last, but why? Because we are living unsustainable ignorant lives.

It really does angry me to the core. How some can be so gullible and give up. The hell with that and those kind of people. Why not use the "gift" of free will?



[edit on 13-4-2009 by DarkStar86]

reply to post by tamusan


Unicorns? I don't wanna play devils advocate here (ba-dum-tish) but it says unicorn in the King James bibles and wild ox, goat or even rhinoceros in other translations. King James are horridly translated, so it's better to go on more modern versions (cept one's like NIV, they're horrible. In fact you'd be better off learning Hebrew).

But yea, it's all pretty silly, creation of light before the sun, hell creation of the earth before the sun, neither could happen. But it was good enough for the ignorant ancients.

reply to post by badmedia


And yet atheists want to force their atheism on everyone else. Might want to make sure your not guilty of the same crime before crying about other's guilt.

reply to post by DarkStar86


God is god. Religion is religion aka man-made false consciousness. Science is the understanding of how things work.

reply to post by DarkStar86

this person would show us the light of science and technology and how if applied to our everyday lives what a difference it could make.

I have just two words that shoots this sentence to crap and shows that there is a dark side to everything. And those two words are, weapons technology.

Originally posted by DarkStar86
Badmedia I don't dislike you as a person or anything like that but...

When I read your post it sounds like you just babble on about how great the bible is and make citations. People telling me how good the bible is, well it's getting old because that's all they do. The fact is the biggest influence in our lives for the overall betterment is knowledge and technology. It's a fact that they have both helped us overall. Most religions. Not so much.

Actually I am very far from a biblical scholar. What I know I didn't learn from the bible at all, rather I see what I learned repeated in the bible, I see the bible describing things I've experienced in ways that no man has even said possible.

I quote the bible to show the wisdom it contains. Not because I think it is the literal word of god(it's not) or any of those other things. I consider Christianity to be a "satanic" religion.

I also do not even accept half the new testament. The only thing I accept in the new testament are the 4 books that contain the words of Jesus and revelation.

You judge religion and such NOT based on what is actually said, NOT based on the wisdom and understandings contained within, but based on what those who claim to be followers do. But if you were to actually understand the bible, you would see that what the followers do is not even close to what Jesus and the bible says. Not to smart IMO.

You say don't worship the flesh, ect, and then you try to back that up with spiritual talk. Try telling that to the millions who starve everyday. We need to quit hoping for a better world and start creating it.

Maybe you should ask WHY are there people starving, rather than just trying to treat a symptom. Starvation is not the "cause" of the problem, but is rather a symptom of the problem. I don't address starvation as a whole because it's like trying to fight the flu with a cough drop. Sure, you might temporarly make the person feel better, feed them for a day, or whatever. But you aren't addressing the actual problem.

And if you want to actually address the cause, then you are going to need spiritual type of information. It's not just "spiritual talk", it's knowledge and wisdom of things that go beyond this world.

You seem like you know your stuff when it comes to bible studies and reflections and that is really a great thing. Now apply that to the world you are actively participating in everyday. I mean, the only reason religion has had a chance to even spread and gain so much power is through technology.

I do apply it to the world everyday. While you base your opinion on those who do things in the name of god and religion, lets take a peak at what it's really about.

www.biblegateway.com...

Entire chapter is good. See, while people may spread ignorance and use religion for personal wealth, if someone actually understands things, then it's a different story. A relationship with the father is all about gaining wisdom and knowledge, not about getting physically rich.

And btw, I didn't get what I learned from any technology. The father(god) is within you, not some invisible man in the sky. Man's religion is spread with technology, the father speaks directly to you.

Because the father is within, this is why he speaks to people in visions or dreams. This is also how I know Paul who wrote half of the "new" testament is a fake, although I know it before then simply because of what he said, such is the icing on the cake.

Bible != Christianity.

Overall here is what I would like to see happen. A sustainable world with free education for all. It is possible right now with our current technology and knowledge, it just takes mass collaboration. Once everyone can be fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated for very cheap or free then we should worry about religions, gods, the spiritual world. We are at a tipping point between a type 0 civilization and a type 1.

en.wikipedia.org...

It is the hardest jump from type 0 to type 1. We need everyone to be involved, so lets set aside petty differences and make this world a better place through actions.

Wouldn't count on it happening. Man will most likely kill themselves off. Let me share something with you that I've known/seen since I was a kid.

There will come a point in time if technology advances to where a single person will have the power/resources to kill an entire planet. Where the energy of a single nuke is available to anyone and everyone. How can such a technology exist among a people who are spiritually bankrupt? It won't. Someone, somewhere is going to end up killing everyone else.

There must be a balance with technology and spirituality. And this planet has been starved in spirituality for thousands of years. Meanwhile, technology has been advanced(mostly for military purposes) and today we are starting to find ourselves getting closer and closer to the point above.

As we are not even close to being spiritually ready for such technologies, the powers that be are the ones who keep them, while the common people aren't allowed to, which causes problems in itself and leaves others at their mercy.

But it won't be allowed to happen, it will all be destroyed. Either naturally by our own ignorance, or from an outside force as with the tower of babel. Won't be the first time a "reset" has happened, and it will keep getting reset until the balance and such is correct.

Here's when the line is drawn in the sand. If there are people in this world today who are apathetic to help the world as a whole because they "know" and have read in a book that the world is going to end that is disgusting and ignorant on a whole other level. People running around talking about endtimes and such. Yes these days may seem like the last, but why? Because we are living unsustainable ignorant lives.

It really does angry me to the core. How some can be so gullible and give up. The hell with that and those kind of people. Why not use the "gift" of free will?

Yes, just what the world needs - another crusade.

As a biochemist, I see no conflict between science and religion. As a Christian, I see no conflict between science and religion. I'd pursued biology because I believe it is a discovery in learning how God created the life He'd placed upon the earth. DNA is a very sophisticated program that's hard to believe happened by magical chance. Introduce the interactions of virus, bacteria, and a functional ecosystem and it gets even more magnificently complex. Many scientists presently and throughout history are/were Christians. Many Christians presently and throughout history are/were scientists. There was no 'loss' by not worshipping science.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by saint4God]

I will reiterate something in another post by me.

Science is (my definition) applying logic to find answers.

Religion is the root of science. At that time way back when, religion was the most logical idea to help prove certain ideas.

So, since we as a species (if you consider Neanderthals the same as "us") were one very stupid...we just imagined a "god". That is why we had religion since the start of our kind.

And because of it being a root of science, which religion falls into under my definitions, it has remained there until now.

We constantly hear that life is an illusion - that there is no real answer. Whether that is true or not, we continue to come up with more complicated ideas that require more and more logic, which unleash new powers regarding technology.

Religion has been there to answer the unanswered. As more and more of the questions we asked for countless amounts of years finally got solved, religion itself has been disappearing. Yet we remain to have unanswered questions, so the root of science remains there to try to explain these questions.

Those who take science and proof over religion, IMO, are the ones who want answers. Those who take religion over science are happy in present time, and do not wish to expand our limitless knowledge of the universe in which we live. A generalization yes, but one I currently believe.

I thank those who actually read my thoughts.

Originally posted by MAC269
I have what I consider to be a better idea.

Lets all keep to ourselves what we think about GOD and the here after, you have no need to stop believing just don’t go anywhere near a place of worship and keep our mouths shut.

At the same time pick someone who needs help and help, it may only be doing a little shopping for the old lady down the road, but what ever just help someone with something that they are having a problem with.

At the same time do something to help the planet.

If all of us did this we would change the planet for good not evil.

This is almost what I do actually. I'm a Christian btw. I don't go around preaching the gospel but when I go places, I help people, strangers, in small ways. I help pick their things up, talk to them, otherwise, lighten up their day.

When I find poor people, I give them money secretly even if they're not begging for it. When a poor does me a favor for a fee, I give them more than what they are asking. I never asked or expected the favor to be returned. I am not rich btw, I'm just your average joe, but you'll never run out of people needier/poorer than you.

Because part of our belief as Christian, you honor God with how you treat the least, the poor, the old, the disabled... What God gives me in return is his love, wisdom, understanding, and the power to cast all fears away

[edit on 21-4-2009 by ahnggk]

reply to post by ahnggk

Because part of our belief as Christian, you honour God with how you treat the least, the poor, the old, the disabled...

Show me a religion that doesn't...

reply to post by ctjctjctj


Science is more based on theories than actual facts, but there are plenty of actual facts. I think once people see the longest bible codes possible that CAN ONLY BE PULLED FROM THE BIBLE they might look to those experiments as scientific analysis. The skeptics like I've been saying have only come up with a pathetic 7 term matrix. Most matrixes aren't even accepted nowadays if they're not 10+ terms, and long terms at that. I can make a better matrix from Moby Dick (a text that's normal and humanly written.) The Bible however contains way too much knowledge for it to be coincidence. You can't find 30+ letter strings in a non-encoded text it's impossible. Of course the bible also says no sex and lust before marriage, and don't be into material things. What is the modern world about? Sex, lust, and material things. Oh and political corruption.

My point being since it says all this that no one listens, but if it said the opposite people would love it.