Electricity Grid in U.S. Penetrated By Spies

Originally posted by johnsky
I've got a valid question.

Why is your electrical grid connected to the internet in the first place?


I mean, lo be it for me to tell technicians they can't chat while they work, but connecting the same terminals that control the grid to the internet seems like asking for trouble to me.


Well... whatever, if the grid comes down, it's your own fault for being stupid.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by johnsky]

I agree with your reasoning. I still wouldn't be alarmed though. If China and Russia have done it to us, I know for a fact that we've probably already done it to them.

If there is a war everybody will be out of electricity, except the oh so impossible government facility buildings who have their own back up generators, ect. Cheers!

Originally posted by JohnD
I'm sorry... I just can't help but snicker. I am envisioning a teenage Matthew Broderick and Ally Sheedy breaking into a high security government computer so they can play 'Global Thermonuclear War'.

Greetings Professor Falken. Heh.

In all seriousness, I would be more concerned about the threat of an EMP device. No manual override is either going to prevent or provide a quick fix for a complete disruption of a power grid due to the deployment of an EMP device.

As far as I know there are no EMP devices, except the effects of Nukyellar
Bum. Funny thing reading the Internet: every Dr Evil jr seems to have one in
their backyard made from capacitors, a picket fence and some bailing wire.
Every science fiction movie now seems to have at least one.
And oddly enough the only pictures you can find are the ones created in
Hollywood. It is probably feasible to knock out something the size of room
at very close range. But to take out even a city block, you would need
so much energy it's not funny.

reply to post by network dude


Thanks for clarifying the DMZ issue... as stated, I'm not a techie, I know what I know second hand and that's certainly an area I haven't researched.

The power grid may be network accessible like most systems, but hacking the controls to the grid will only work until they turn off the power.

Once the power grid is down there will be no more network contol

The North American power grid is not (POE) powered over Ethernet

This hack only works as a threat, because you can only do it once and the act itself is its own solution

I would like to assume that the power grid could be rebooted with a LAN back up system.

...unless the deep cover Russian/Chinese Manchurian programmers have hacked the back up systems as well and have socially engineered their way into all of the power grid hubs with their own operative assets who will take over when the time is right...then operating with large capacity batteries which eventual will have to be recharged...uh no never mind this doesn't even make sense any more...just another distraction

reply to post by Pr0t0


not a problem. That one is kind of a serious secrity risk and these days there are a lot of do-it-yourselfers out there due to the slow economy. While I would welcome any new work, I would hate to see someone loose their important stuff. What did you do for the NOCs?

Originally posted by Helig
A quick comment directed at the folks asking why these systems were connected to the internet. The logic behind this kind of setup is obvious, they want redundant links between sites without the need to spend ridiculous amounts of money to develop their own massive fiber network that provides such a mesh topology. Consumer fiber is not cheap and the kind you bury in the ground or string up on a pole costs a lot more, so from a financial standpoint I can see why such systems are jacked into the internet (probably using VPNs).

For those who wish to bone up on this topic check out SCADA and then hop over to the Network Security Blog and see if you can find the post where Martin talks about SCADA, because honestly this kind of thing should be keeping people up at night.

I hate to spoil your Internet fantasy, but I saw a documentary a while ago
and they don't use the Internet and it's not even automated.
All decisions are made by people, the computer does what the Operators
instruct it to do, not the other way round. The computers just monitor,
give recommendations and make beeping noises.
It's still done the old fashioned way using Phones to actually talk to
another Power Operator, no sms'ing no emailing.

Originally posted by iamjesusphish

Originally posted by george_gaz Imagine if they sold that information to terrorists

thanks for that fear mongering nonsense ... i believe that the us government are the real terrorists

And thank you for that fear mongering nonsense

One mans terrorist ...

edit: fix quote

[edit on 8-4-2009 by george_gaz]

I posted about this march 31st.

So it isnt like we didnt know it was starting.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

My beilief is it isn't Hacker's persay.

They have a new bill up for vote.
This isn't about hacker's ..it's about how to make people not say no to this bill.
cdt.org...



They already had the bill drew up.......
That meins they already had all this planed to give obama control of the internet how he deems fit.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by TheAmused]

and what were my ideas for free energy again?/??

OH YEAH

Unhackable MAGNET ROTORS underground! Thats right, windmills and solar be damned, heres a real solution. OH whats that? HHO to fuel homes heat and stove, or even add electricity? The modern setup is a contrived joke on people for control and money.

How convenient that the Electrical grid was some how "Hacked" Which now the most common person is going to be worried and actually agree with what ever they do ...

This gives them more leverage on attacking the internet as nothing more then a secruity risk...

This could be used to "Explain" the power outages in areas going on ... or future ones ..

and they can hold onto this for our real issue with the power grid in upcomming years.

Sad part is this isn't the first time this has made the news, Forbes ran a story back in 2008 about several penetrations of such networks one of which lead to an actual blackout. Perhaps instead of blowing money on failed companies we should be investing in further security measures for our vital infrastructure instead?

Originally posted by Bldrvgr
How convenient that the Electrical grid was some how "Hacked" Which now the most common person is going to be worried and actually agree with what ever they do ...

This gives them more leverage on attacking the internet as nothing more then a secruity risk...

This could be used to "Explain" the power outages in areas going on ... or future ones ..

and they can hold onto this for our real issue with the power grid in upcomming years.

If people would read my post's they would relize that's what i am tellign everyone.
They have a new bill up for vote.
This isn't about hacker's ..it's about how to make people not say no to this bill.
cdt.org...
74.125.95.132...:sgoBQucbYyQJ:cdt.org/security/CYBERSEC4.pdf+cyber+security+act&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Page 1 II [STAFF WORKING DRAFT] M ARCH 31, 2009 111 TH CONGRESS 1 ST S ESSION S. —— To ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communica- tions, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to im- prove and maintain effective cyber security defenses against disruption, and for other purposes

That is the bill drew up.
They had it planed before all of this hacker bs.
the last line scare's me.
"And for other perposes"

why people won't connect the dot's on this one is beyond me.

i swear peole read the first page of post's and don't bother after that lol

reply to post by mastermind77


it is amazing how things like this get ignored by the masses and then when you think about the consiquences of a power grid failure, nobody says, hey what about hydrogen? I know, it won't work. It takes too much electricity to start the electrolysys process. Hey wait, what is that big orange ball in the sky? And what are those wierd looking grey pannels on your roof? Wow, you must be one of those kooks.

Whatever, I can build a fire and hunt. I could probaby even brew beer with a fire and a pot, so I guess there is no fear for me.

Well, its time to meet your enemy... Politically After watching the UN, piss on itself and allow Tyranny within their council, I suppose China, and Russia, who got caught red handily will remain, in a deceptive trade alliance with us. I would cancel all trade agreements, or threaten the hell outta them..

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Adrifter]

BT network 'vulnerable to Chinese attack'
www.theregister.co.uk...

"Spy chiefs have reportedly briefed ministers that Huawei hardware bought by BT could be hijacked by China to cripple the UK's communications infrastructure....In 2005 the Chinese firm [Huawei] won contracts to provide access nodes and optical equipment for the core of the new [BT] network."

Irancell Confident With Huawei Partnership
www.telecomsinsight.com...

February 2008 - The failed takeover bid of U.S. computer communications maker 3Com by [Huawei] a Chinese military related company.
www.newsmax.com...
According to the above article "The Chinese company, Huawei, was directly linked by several intelligence reports to supplying air defense and communications networks to Saddam Hussein and the Taliban."

"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates revealed that he was completely in the dark about the deal. The admission by Gates echoed similar confessions by the Pentagon top brass that they also were unaware of the buyout.

The Defense Department and the U.S. intelligence agencies were surprised by the proposed deal and had to scramble in order to get it reviewed for national security reasons."

AND

www.nydailynews.com...

A plot to smuggle nuclear weapons materials to Iran through unwitting banks has been uncovered. Authorities first stumbled over the scheme seven months ago in an unrelated probe into Iranian money-laundering through Lloyd's Bank [UK].

"In January [2009], Lloyd's paid a $350 million fine to settle accusations it "stripped" information from Iranian money transfers to New York banks, hiding where the cash came from."

A Chinese national has been accused of setting up a handful of fake companies to hide that he was selling millions of dollars in potential nuclear materials to Tehran.

It is alledged by US authorities, that between 2006 and late 2008, various banned materials were shipped from China to Iran including,

53,900 pounds of maraging steel rods, a superhard metal used in uranium enrichment and to make the casings for nuclear bombs.

33,000 pounds of a specialised aluminum alloy used almost exclusively in long-range missile production.

66,000 pounds of tungsten copper plate, which is used in missile guidance systems.

The recipient is believed to have been a subsidiary of the Iranian Defense Ministry.

reply to post by Sparkey76


Here is the thing that just baffles and confuses me. How could something so precious as our electrical/nuclear infrastructure be available for outside access? Seriously.

This is exactly what this season's 24 was based on (originally, now it is focusing on private armies, ).

I just don't get how we could allow for any sensative structure like this to be able to be accessed from the outside.

Edit to add: now that I think about it, I feel that this is the next step in the attempt to control or remove the internet. The Rockefeller speech about how the internet is a risk to our security and blah blah blah. This is why I am shocked that this could happen in the first place. Of course, it also makes for a WONDERFUL reason to remove from the public the one true source of REAL news and information about these corrupt bastards.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by dariousg]

reply to post by Sparkey76


Kind of makes you think about that last post where the woman was talking about her husband (electrical engineer) and an event that would take down the power grids all over the World.

?

The Government could use this as a weapon on two fronts against its own American citizens.

Could they claim that the need for a clamp down on all internet access is a National Security issue? They could say that there needs to be a shut down of the Internet and introduce Government controlled Internet 2 that already has the access control in place to guard against foreign cyberspace attacks on electrical grids and Government access?

Or

They could use our power grid against us whenever they want (calling it a terror attack). A loss of Nationwide power would be just as effective as a dirty bomb, but it would do less damage to expensive infrastructure. Think of the seriousness of water plants and sewer plants not functioning. Hospitals running on minimal backup power. Neighborhood street lights out at night and traffic lights non-functional.

It would be a mess.

And I thought it couldn't get any crazier

I'm in the false flag camp.

This will most likely be used as an excuse for more federal control of the internet.

Quotes like this point to fear mongering, "The Chinese have attempted to map our infrastructure, such as the electrical grid," said a senior intelligence official. "So have the Russians."

Map our infrastructure? How hard is that? Take any commercially available satellite photo and look at the existing infrastructure. If there is a building or other manmade structure it probably has electrical service.

If it were really possible to hack into an electrical control grid for a private electrical company wouldn't some hacker have done it by now for bragging rights or revenge against Enron and caused a major outage?

reply to post by FadeToBlack

If China and Russia have done it to us, I know for a fact that we've probably already done it to them.

This may shock you but the majority of malicious hacking attempts in the world originate from two countries: America and Israel.

www.usatoday.com...
www.infowar-monitor.net...

There are undergraduate-dropouts and highschool nerds more dangerous than any Russian or Chinese computer virus or trojan hack.

Look at Gary McKinnon, the 414s, Ken Thompson, Robert Morris, Ehud Tannenbaum, or Jeanson Ancheta. Real hackers who caused real damage and penetrated very sensitive networks.

The people who pioneered hacking and viruses were most certainly not Chinese or Russian.

[edit on 8/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Sounds like a false flag to get more restrictions on the internet like they have been doing so vigorously in recent events.