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Fred The Lion Vs Abductions And Proof

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posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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I see many people on ATS asking for proof of UFO abductions. Now i'm not a believer but i wanted to play devils advocate here. So i decided to tell the story of Fred the lion


Humans regularly tranquilize lions. Now imagine you are a lion, i'm going to play out the situation.

Human hit a lion with a dart to knock him out. Poor Fred. Fred feels drowsy, eventually falls over. Humans walk over. We do all sorts of tests on him, then walk away and wait for him to wake up, he runs off. Now imagine for a second that Fred has the ability to communicate like we do, but with lions.

Hey Fred where have you been? - Lions

I'm...........i'm not quite sure - Fred

What you mean - Lions

Well this weird thing happened. I went all dizzy, fell over, i don't remember much - Fred

Oh come on Fred tell us - Lions

Well i had these weird beings around me. They had two arms, two legs and walked on just their legs! They were a funny colour, 3 white and 1 black. I couldn't move! They took out this weird thing, it was clear with a silver metal long thing, it went into my skin and they pushed down on it, it hurt a lot. - Fred

Oh Fred wil you please stop eating that green hyena, it's messing with your head - Lions

No no come on i've never made anything up! These things they took me somewhere, it was a weird thing, it had 4 circular bits and was grey, the circles were black. It felt like they moved me around with it. They prodded and poked me, they did all sorts of things to me i don't know what they wanted. - Fred

Yeah ok fred, maybe you should go lie down - Lions

No no, look i have a mark on my rear end where the pointy silver thing hit me - Fred

Oh Fred you just caught yourself on a tree, now shut up - Lions


Now consider something. If aliens existed they would be way beyond us if they are able to visit this planet. Their technology would be extraordinary. It would be just like lions trying to comprehend our capture and release of them.

Maybe this makes no sense to some people, but in the end isn't this the same way aliens would look at us if they were that advanced? How could there be any proof in this situation? If they abducted us then we'd have as much proof as that lion.

Poor Fred.




posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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What i'd like to know is..

If people were abducted by lions named fred, would it rip a hole in the spacetime continuum?

Would it be more believable to be taken by a lion, rather then an alien?

Are lions aliens? Are we aliens to the lions?



[edit on 7-4-2009 by phrankie79]



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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good analagy. We always think that humans are the top of the top of the intelligence scale, but in my 30 odd years of life, I have yet to see intelligence on a grand scale.

THAT is more scary than abductions. I want freaky alien sex if Im abducted. Think they do requests?



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by Le Colonel
 




good analagy


I don't really think so. Lions and Humans have a great deal of history dealing with each other. Interactions are common. We are no strangers to each other's species. So the other linguistic lions would not necessarily doubt what he says, though they may doubt the drugging and examination, because they see humans all the time. They know they exist.

A more apt analogy would be an intelligent deep-sea species which came in contact with a submersible, was captured, brought to the surface, studied, and then returned to it's environment.

However, if Humanity found another species which through our examinations showed capacity for language and thought - we'd try to communicate with it. If we learned from it that it had a society, we'd try to make contact with that society. Hell, we're trying to teach African Greys, Gorillas, Elephants, Chimps, Dolphins and other intelligent species to communicate with us by teaching them rudimentary language/sign language. Even without a lack of "society", we've spent considerable time investigating those species - even to the point of assimilating into their social groups. Jane Goodall?

Where is the Jane Goodall of the aliens? If they are as far beyond us as we are beyond Chimps, then they have nothing to fear from contact... just as we don't hide and fear Chimpanzees discovery of our observation and interaction.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by Lasheic
I don't really think so. Lions and Humans have a great deal of history dealing with each other. Interactions are common. We are no strangers to each other's species. So the other linguistic lions would not necessarily doubt what he says, though they may doubt the drugging and examination, because they see humans all the time. They know they exist.


Err i'm sorry but the same could be argued for the current abduction phenomenon. Humans have been interacting with lions for hundreds of years, maybe thousands, many people claim the same of aliens. The lions don't all see humans only some of them do, like only some humans see aliens.


Originally posted by Lasheic
A more apt analogy would be an intelligent deep-sea species which came in contact with a submersible, was captured, brought to the surface, studied, and then returned to it's environment.


That would be the same if you think it through according to my above explanation.


Originally posted by Lasheic
However, if Humanity found another species which through our examinations showed capacity for language and thought - we'd try to communicate with it. If we learned from it that it had a society, we'd try to make contact with that society. Hell, we're trying to teach African Greys, Gorillas, Elephants, Chimps, Dolphins and other intelligent species to communicate with us by teaching them rudimentary language/sign language. Even without a lack of "society", we've spent considerable time investigating those species - even to the point of assimilating into their social groups. Jane Goodall?


You make the horrendous mistake of putting human motivations on an alien species. You make the further mistake of assuming we try to interact with all species below us. Jane Goodall communicated with chimps because they seemed so similar to us. I would refer you to the sci-fi series of Star Trek and they're "prime directive". That actually makes a whole lot of sense (and no i'm not a star trek fan).


Originally posted by Lasheic
Where is the Jane Goodall of the aliens? If they are as far beyond us as we are beyond Chimps, then they have nothing to fear from contact... just as we don't hide and fear Chimpanzees discovery of our observation and interaction.


Again you make the rather large mistake of assuming they have the same motivation as ourselves. You have no idea of their societal structure. What if they see us as we see ants? Something to be studied? What if they see us as sentient but unable to handle the truth of alien life? Would they protect us by hiding their presence?

You look at the entire situation from a very human perspective. We have to consider motivations outside of that, which is very difficult as we are all human



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 




Humans have been interacting with lions for hundreds of years, maybe thousands, many people claim the same of aliens. The lions don't all see humans only some of them do, like only some humans see aliens.


Try tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years. Lions and their ancestors preyed on early humans and our ancestors. They still do occasionally. None of us has seen an Auroch, but nobody really doubts they existed. Most people haven't actually seen a spiny echidna, but nobody really doubts that they exist.

Your analogy only works on the broadest of similarities.




That would be the same if you think it through according to my above explanation.


Not really, if you read my above explanation.




You make the horrendous mistake of putting human motivations on an alien species.




I would refer you to the sci-fi series of Star Trek and they're "prime directive". That actually makes a whole lot of sense (and no i'm not a star trek fan).


If you recall, the Prime Directive is a tenant of the Federation - devised BY humans after first contact with the Klingons. Why are you projecting a policy devised by fictional human characters, written by a human television producer. Further, you then say my logic is flawed because I'm anthropomorphizing an alien species? I'd say that's some pretty twisted logic myself right there.

Further, if they are Aliens and their motivations as uniquely alien as their origins, then any speculation as to their agenda - including abductions - are innately unknowable until we make contact.

However, I don't think that's necessarily true. I don't use fiction, but a likelyhood based on reason. Assuming aliens exist and they ARE abducting humans:

1: They're apparent technology level indicates an innate curiosity - regardless of the driving motivator behind that curiosity.

2: They're apparent technology level indicates they are likely not motivated to violence by competition or resources - otherwise their technology level would have provided a means to wipe themselves out long ago. Michio Kaku refers to this as the transition from Type 0 to Type 1 civilization.

3: They're apparent technology level indicates that we are no real threat to them - whether we fear them or not is of little consequence. We simply aren't technologically advanced enough.

4: They're apparent technology level indicates that they pose no malicious harm, as we are still around.

5: If abduction accounts are true, then they are curious about us as a species.

6: If they exist, are abducting us, and yet pose no malicious threat to humanity; why do so many abduction accounts report terror, painful experiments, and violations of our bodies? This indicates that they have no empathy towards human suffering. If they have no empathy towards us, and we are not a threat, then why stay hidden?

Humanity, in contrast, are not malicious towards the animals we experiment on - despite the experiments being sometimes painful and frightening. We are empathetic to the animals plight. We are not concerned with animals posing a significant military threat. Therefore, while our experiments may seem similar to alien abductions on the surface - we do not hide ourselves, our cities, or our activities from them.

Also... it should be noted that just because the beings are supposedly Alien, doesn't mean they don't share characteristics with humanity. Technology thrives in civilizations, collectives. Groups that provide the basic living standards for their researchers. This indicates a highly social group structure in their evolutionary past. Behaviors that humans evolved with to help our survival within tribes or groups may also be present in alien species that evolved in highly social groups.

Mutation is random, but selection is not. For example, the nylon digesting bacteria which was discovered in Japan had it's mutation replicated by placing a different species of non-nylonase bacteria into a nylon rich environment. In humans, this has also been observed by the creation of two separate and unique mutations with a similar purpose in populations who live at the elevated altitudes of the Andes and Tibetan mountains. This mutation allowed them to breath more comfortably at higher altitudes.

So if they exist, they MIGHT not be so different from us than many people might initially think.



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