How Can We Stop the Epidemic of Killing Women and Children By Returning Soldiers

How Can We Stop the Epidemic of Killing Women and Children By Returning Soldiers

www.alternet. org

Wake up, America. The boys are coming home, and they're not the boys who went away. - On New Year's Day, the New York Times welcomed the advent of 2009 by reporting that, since returning from Iraq, nine members of the Fort Carson, Colorado, Fourth Brigade Combat team had been charged with homicide. Five of the murders they were responsible for took place in 2008 when, in addition, "charges of domestic violence, rape and sexual assault" at the base rose sharply. Some of the murder victims were chosen at random; four were fellow soldiers -- all men. Three were wives or girlfriends.

This shouldn't be a surprise. Men sent to Iraq or Afghanistan for two, three, or four tours of duty return to wives who find them "changed" and children they barely know. Tens of thousands return to inadequate, underfunded veterans' services with appalling physical injuries, crippling post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and suck-it-up sergeants who hold to the belief that no good soldier seeks help. That, by the way, is a mighty convenient belief for the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs, which have been notoriously slow to offer much of that help.

(visit the link for the full news article)

It's a well-known fact that billions of soldiers working for the occult-world government have been trained to kill men, women, and children without flinching or even getting a weak-stomach. Most of them would even consider killing their own families, if they snapped back into the war-zone (it's not just a field, it's a state of mind).

The movie, Jacob's Ladder is based on real soldiers, who were used as subjects of experiments conducted by the occult-government, which occurred during the Vietnam War & beyond. The drugs & chemicals injected in & sprayed on those soldiers made them go mad. They opened fire on one another, even though they were ordered to kill Vietnamese (especially poor women & children) at that stage of the war.

robert-temple-1

The story is about a group of Vietnam veterans who were unwittingly the subjects of a chemical experiment which went wrong, and are still feeling the nightmarish after-effects. This is always a topical subject, because everyone now knows that the Pentagon during that war was 'outtacontrol' and threw chemicals around like jelly beans, burning down a large proportion of the trees in Southeast Asia in order to kill two or three Cong, tinkering with the minds and emotions of their own men by giving them hallucinogens, and generally acting as most armies act in time of war. (Where there's a war there's friendly fire, fragging, and own-side casualties such as these.)

Ann Jones

No society that sends its men abroad for war can expect them to come home and be at peace, as returning Iraqi vets are proving in alarming numbers.

www.alternet. org
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 6-4-2009 by News And History]

Do you have any statistics comparing the killing of women and children by returning soldiers to the wackos(NON returning soldiers) that are currently on our streets killing women and children?

Epidemic????? How many troops have served in those two wars and how many of those who served came back to become killers?

reply to post by jam321

That's for the military to cover-up, and the rest of us to find out. Do you trust the Pentagon's statistics? People like them are in control of news-corporations like Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and other false-news outlets. They've been lying to the general-public about how many military soldiers have killed innocent-families for decades. Why would they stop lying about their statistics now?

The government isn't just going to release the statistics you've asked me to present to you. They keep that information for themselves & they giggle over that stuff. Those mass-murderers only do one thing more than killing: destroy evidence.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by News And History]

How Can We Stop the Epidemic of Killing Women and Children By Returning Soldiers

Maybe the real question is "How do we stop our troops from killing non-combatent men, women and children in an illegal war?" Maybe a companion question we should be asking is "What is acceptable "collateral" damage? Right now, our troops kill non-combatent civilians without any remorse or consequences.

I say -- you kill a non-combatent man, woman or child, you stand trial for murder -- in a trial in the same country where the murders occured. The jury should be the peers of the murdered individuals.

Next, we need to get the international community involved in prosecuting our politicians that are playing this power trip across the globe.

Correct. How to stop the killing of Woman, children AND MEN. It is absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical to only care for some of the groups and exclude Men. They are after all individuals too, and worth just as much aswell.

Originally posted by News And History
reply to post by jam321

 

That's for the military to cover-up, and the rest of us to find out. Do you trust the Pentagon's statistics? People like them are in control of news-corporations like Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and other false-news outlets. They've been lying to the general-public about how many military soldiers have killed innocent-families for decades. Why would they stop lying about their statistics now?

The government isn't just going to release the statistics you've asked me to present to you. They keep that information for themselves & they giggle over that stuff. Those mass-murderers only do one thing more than killing: destroy evidence.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by News And History]

I like your willingness to know what you know, in advance of the evidence.
(I'm not being facetious...that's how all good projects or cults get going...if you wait till you're sure ...it's too late).

But, uh, I notice that the government (in your exegesis) is evil.
The usual media suspect corporate entities...also evil.
And (this is just subtextual presumption on my part) but it does seem like in your pageant that the soldiers, although victims, victimized, and duped...are also evil, if only now by being damaged...We must be protected from them...look out etc.

It occurs to me that you are overlooking other potential trouble sources, where the evil, which causes these excessive slaying outbursts, might also be localized in some of these cases.
You speak of the "innocent families".
Women and children in America (like other humans) very frequently behave badly. Perhaps, having returned from the war where many of them saw a side of life very different from their previous experiences, and perhaps having altered philosophically as a result, the soldiers find it more difficult suddenly to overlook the lame and deficient behavior of their loved ones. In previous generations, when wife-beating and whipping the kids into line were not so illegal or noteworthy, this discontinuity could have been worked off in a few decreasingly violent episodes of friction until life eventually returned to normal. But nowadays, with less tolerance for returned-veteran domestic violence, the cops get called while the soldier is still decompressing, the whole thing escalates and the soldier runs amuck.

My (small) point here being, just as you are sure ahead of the evidence that the military is lying...I bet if we looked into it case-by-case, many of the victims may have done bad things that contributed to their getting slain. (I think cops tend to agree that victims are less likely to be innocent than to be "begging for it".) And, who knows, the victims may have been misdirected into the provocative behavior that got them killed by the same evil psychological support staff that are putting forward the (just as likely to be lying advocacy as the Pentagon or the media) statistics that have alerted you to this massacre epidemic. I mean, why should everyone else in the story be evil except for the shrinks and the victims...

Oh, but then there is one other person in the story who isn't evil...You...Because you, being concerned, are the concerned citizen...
(Let me know how being a concerned citizen works out for you...It seems like a hard, lonely life...)

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

Women and children in America (like other humans) very frequently behave badly. Perhaps, having returned from the war where many of them saw a side of life very different from their previous experiences, and perhaps having altered philosophically as a result, the soldiers find it more difficult suddenly to overlook the lame and deficient behavior of their loved ones. In previous generations, when wife-beating and whipping the kids into line were not so illegal or noteworthy, this discontinuity could have been worked off in a few decreasingly violent episodes of friction until life eventually returned to normal. But nowadays, with less tolerance for returned-veteran domestic violence, the cops get called while the soldier is still decompressing, the whole thing escalates and the soldier runs amuck.

What kind of psycho babble is this? Women and children frequently behave poorly. Never met any that do actually, except for a few that were into drugs, primarily due to the men that introduced them to this, and the children who are raised in these dysfunctional homes. Otherwise, just met ordinary people, being themselves, warts and all, perfectly normal.

What was this, about decompressing by being abusive and blowing off steam!
Individuals like this need to be caged like animals. Theres not a woman or child on the planet that deserves to be in their presence!

This is definately not acceptable to say, I even think thinking like this depicts a dangerous mind.

Originally posted by News And History
It's a well-known fact that billions of soldiers working for the occult-world government have been trained to kill men, women, and children without flinching or even getting a weak-stomach. Most of them would even consider killing their own families, if they snapped back into the war-zone (it's not just a field, it's a state of mind).

Well you know what they say good soldier bad civilian.
I S&F this tread, it is so unusual for someone on ATS to link the occult to Worldy affairs. The Alien Agenda and Psychopathy complete this saddistic victimisation of the helpless. I do not understand why this is necessary and courageous!

We need to stop scorning people with PTSD whether it is caused by combat situations or other situations. It's a very serious condition and usually gets much worse without treatment. "Complex PTSD" - serious trauma which has never been treated can easily become %100 disabling or turn into borderline personality disorder as well.
If returning soldiers cannot get treatment for PTSD from the VA then they should look to community mental health centers with sliding scale payments. The treatment for combat related PTSD is very much the same as it is for non-combat related PTSD and every mental health clinic is likely to have someone well trained in it.

Originally posted by News And History
It's a well-known fact that billions of soldiers working for the occult-world government have been trained to kill men, women, and children without flinching or even getting a weak-stomach.

How is it a well known fact? Please define 'soldier,' because I am fairly sure their are not a billion soldiers in the world, let alone the US. The only way this number can make logical sense is if you count civilians that you might deem as working in a militant way for the 'occult-world' government.

reply to post by jam321

Murder isn't so much the problem but a large segment of the returning soldiers are showing signs of emotional distress from depression and violence to suicide, which is to be expected. The poster is correct in stating that vets are denied treatment which has been in practice for a long time, especially since you can convince someone that having it on your medical records disqualifies you for security clearances, other insurance policies or job background checks.

I hate to say it but I fear this will be another Vietnam, where the group as a whole is castigated to deflect the blame for us losing another war. If you look at most studies done over the past three decades Vietnam vets as a group suffered less war-related trauma and reintegrated into society with far more ease than Korean War or World War II vets, who experienced very high rates of suicide, substance abuse and other related issues. Back then they did not have the kind of psych care that exists today to treat it.

My nagging feeling is that this is a situation like certain other wars including Gulf War II where the higher ups either ignored or encouraged substance abuse in the field because it made soldiers more tractable. I once worked with an ex-medic who told me that we were lucky that the 1991 conflict ended so quickly because the medical corps had either smoked or sold much of the military's narcotics and medicinal reserves before the war really started. Judging by the behavior of the vets I knew from that war who did not experience the kind of fighting we saw in Vietnam or the current conflict I have no reason to doubt it.

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel

I bet if we looked into it case-by-case, many of the victims may have done bad things that contributed to their getting slain. (I think cops tend to agree that victims are less likely to be innocent than to be "begging for it".)

This is sick PERIOD It is like saying 'she deserved to be raped, did you see her cloths?'....

Now back to the topic at hand:

How to stop the killing done by our returning veterans? That would have to be medical (psychological) treatment.

They would/should go though a through debriefing to ensure they are safe to release into the general population (no jail parallel intended).

Then once they are 'released' into the general population they need to receive, most likely weekly therapy, it could even be group therapy.


Most likely this will never happen and the pentagon will continue to try to cover up all the ills suffered by its soldiers simply because actually taking care of them costs MONEY and seeing how we live in a state functioning under the cancer-stage of capitalism this expenditure will NEVER be made.

Occult-Government to blame, I don't think so. I blame the form of capitalism we subscribe to and a serious lack of appreciation for the VALUE f human life.

reply to post by ChrisCrikey

The problem is that they are legally obligated to disclose providing treatment even though they cannot disclose conversations between patient and physician. The other problem regards possession or use of weapons since it is illegal in many states to firearms to someone who admits to mental illness or who has undergone psychological care. Not sure what the military's legal standard is but it is my undetstanding that they cannot legally allow an at-risk person to possess or use a weapon similar to a civilian police force.

Yes, I know I will be bashed for posting a "Fox" source. But unless someone can prove their information is incorrect, than I would expect this to stand as is. But I challenge you to please prove these stats false, if you believe they are!

I would also challenge people to post some more statistics supporting their agreement of the OP, because as much as people dont trust Fox. I dont trust the source in the OP.

According to analysis by FOX News, the murder rate among vets is seven per 100,000. In the same age group, among civilians who live in the USA, it is 40 per 100,000. Therefore, the military murder rate is actually 82 percent lower than the civilian murder rate.
www.foxnews.com...

Some more stats:

pajamasmedia.com...

In an article in the Weekly Standard, John J. DiIulio Jr. offered the much-needed context that the Times failed to provide.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) and other veterans’ advocacy groups are absolutely correct that not merely “many” but the vast majority of veterans not only remain completely law-abiding but go on to lead stable and productive personal, professional, and civic lives. Assuming 121 homicide cases in relation to 749,932 total discharges through 2007, 99.98 percent of all discharged Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have not committed or been charged with homicide.

And assuming 121 cases and 749,932 total discharges, the homicide offending rate for the discharged veterans would be 16.1 per 100,000. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has demographic data aplenty on homicide offending rates. For instance, in 2005, for white males aged 18-24, the rate was about 20 per 100,000. The Times opined that 121 was the “minimum” number, even as it counted veterans charged but not convicted with veterans tried and found guilty. Doubling the number to 242 would double the rate to 32.2 per 100,000.

www.nypost.com...

Justice Department statistics show that Americans in the veterans' age group, 18 to 34 years old, commit about 150 murders a year - an identical number of their civilian peers would've committed 700 to 750 murders in the same time-frame.

www.post-gazette.com...
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there were, on average, 8.7 murderers per 100,000 people annually between 1976 and 2005. The figure for combat veterans is nearly twice that high. Sounds like a problem.

But hold your horses. The 121 murders committed by veterans have been since the war on terror began, a period now of more than six years. To be kind to the New York Times reporters, let's call it four years, from the time vets would have been returning from Iraq. That means the annual rate of murders by combat veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan is about 4.5 per 100,000, or about half that of the civilian population.

Hold your horses tighter. Most murders are committed by young men. Males accounted for 88.8 percent of all homicides for the period studied, according to the Justice Department. Both men and women aged 18-24 accounted for 36.6 percent, men and women aged 25-34 for 28.4 percent. But the armed forces are comprised overwhelmingly of men in those age groups. In 2005, there were 26.5 murderers per 100,000 people aged 18-24. For those aged 25-34, there were 13.5 murderers per 100,000.

"To match the homicide rate of their peers, our troops would have had to come home and commit about 150 murders a year, for a total of about 700 to 750 murders between 2003 and the end of 2007," noted retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters.

Their civilian peers are five times more likely to commit murder than are vets of Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems to me that if there's a problem, it's with the civilians, not the soldiers. But Ms. Sontag and Ms. Alvarez had a "narrative" -- perpetuating the myth of the wacko vet -- and they ignored, or twisted, pertinent facts that didn't fit it.

So, I look forward to those who can provide stats showing that war vets murder more then civilians do.



As a PS. There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to murder innocent life. But to make it sound like war vets are so flippn dangerous and are going on murder sprees when compared to civilians is ridiculous IMO. There are tons of military who go thru war after war and come home and lead productive lives and never harm anyone. However, there are screwed up civilians who enter the military and do bad things while in and when they get out.


In fact according to statistics it is CIVILANS who are far more dangerous then war vets. Just something to think about!

[edit on 4/6/2009 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by News And History
reply to post by jam321

 

That's for the military to cover-up, and the rest of us to find out. Do you trust the Pentagon's statistics? People like them are in control of news-corporations like Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and other false-news outlets. They've been lying to the general-public about how many military soldiers have killed innocent-families for decades. Why would they stop lying about their statistics now?

The government isn't just going to release the statistics you've asked me to present to you. They keep that information for themselves & they giggle over that stuff. Those mass-murderers only do one thing more than killing: destroy evidence.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by News And History]

So basically you have NO EVIDENCE that war vets murder more then civilians? Your just assuming. Your pulling opinions out of the air with no substance to back it up.

Ok.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by ChrisCrikey

 

The problem is that they are legally obligated to disclose providing treatment even though they cannot disclose conversations between patient and physician. The other problem regards possession or use of weapons since it is illegal in many states to firearms to someone who admits to mental illness or who has undergone psychological care. Not sure what the military's legal standard is but it is my undetstanding that they cannot legally allow an at-risk person to possess or use a weapon similar to a civilian police force.

I think that is only true for court ordered mental health care. There are a number of good reasons for soldiers to go to community health clinics instead of the VA because their confidentiality would be more guarded in a community mental health setting.

reply to post by ChrisCrikey

All mental health care providers are legally obligated to confirm to an insurance company or background investigator if they have treated a specific person, they just can't divulge details of treatment unless ordered by a court under very specific conditions. Refusing to comply is obstruction of justice and also is grounds for license revocation from the state medical board.
Part of this is due to the Brady Bill which prohibits those who have undergone treatment for depression or certain other psych conditions from purchasing firearms. Lying on a application is a serious criminal offense and yes, people get caught doing it.

reply to post by secretagent woooman

That is really so bizarre and counter-productive, secretagent woooman, if true. I wonder who would qualify as background investigator? Who is allowed to run those checks besides insurance companies (which is effed up too) if there is no legal body or court action involved?

reply to post by ChrisCrikey

That is the whole point of a background investigation! Why do you think that is suspicious? They aren't checking you out to be your pal and tell you what is on your security report, they are performing a legitimate legal function in the interest of public or employer safety and liability. You do realize that these issues also can be researched by employers, landlords and other individuals? No to mention that fraudulent psychiatric treatment is a common form of insurance fraud by people in workman's comp and injury cases especially when claiming permanent disability. Wanna take a guess at the percentages for that? It's VERY high and there are a lot of investigators who specialize in just those cases, why do you think the government is trying to cap or eliminate those settlements? Ask any military officer how many people they have seen trying to DOR or obtain a medical discharge on false psych pretenses and you will hear some interesting tales. Corporal Klinger was not a figment of the imagination!

Most background searches concentrate on criminal prosecutions related to sex or drug-related crimes, failure to pay landlords or utilities, and other topics specific to the investigation but a person selling a weapon has a definite right AND a legal obligation to know what is going on with the person they are selling to. That is as much for the public's protection as the dealer's. There is a very good reason why guns cannot be sold to mentally ill people and that is because they disproportionately use them to harm themselves and others in that order than a "normal" person. I've yet to meet any mental health professional who believes that someone under psychiatric care or who are on medication should be allowed to have weapons and that includes the segment of the population that is not receiving treatment. Depressives are the worst because they are more likely to kill others before killing themselves, delusions that they are "saving" these people from other harm are pretty common for those who survive. We aren't talking normal lifestress-related depression all people experience from time to time which would be differentiated by a competent practitioner, we are talking major depression and other conditions that do have higher than average violence rates. People with PTSD commit suicide at much higher rates than other forms of depression, depending on the stats they are 50 to 75 percent more likely to do so.

As for legal disclosure that also is in the public's interest. How often have you heard about someone who should have been Baker Acted going on a murder spree like last Friday? One of the first things we learned in psych school is that the anyone who goes on to work in patient care will have to file paperwork and make disclosure without revealing details in violation of the patient care act. Hiding that treatment and stigmatizing it only increases a person's stress and makes them more likely to act out in my opinion, but that's the state of the system we have now. I think most of the psych field is crap and that is why I do not work in it but my feeling is that all returning soldiers need some form of posttrauma care and evaluation, and integrative care to return them to society to a healthy form. I speak as one with many vets in the family who have all shown varied forms of battle-related stress.