Guess what? You can't scream fire ina crowded theater, unless there is a fire. So there is already a limit on free speech.

You can't threaten some one with physical harm. So there is already a limit on free speech.

And now they want to make it so you can't scream at your followers to go out and persecute against gays, Muslims, so forth. You can't tell the sheep to kill some one for being a lesbian. You can't go out and warp the mind of children in Sunday school about hating those ebil wittle Muslims.

Of course no surprise Christians have a problem with that. So much for love right? They need hate speech or their sermons will get a lot shorter on Sunday.

Originally posted by JMasters
Guess what? You can't scream fire ina crowded theater, unless there is a fire. So there is already a limit on free speech.

You can't threaten some one with physical harm. So there is already a limit on free speech.

And now they want to make it so you can't scream at your followers to go out and persecute against gays, Muslims, so forth. You can't tell the sheep to kill some one for being a lesbian. You can't go out and warp the mind of children in Sunday school about hating those ebil wittle Muslims.

Of course no surprise Christians have a problem with that. So much for love right? They need hate speech or their sermons will get a lot shorter on Sunday.

There is a more fundamental reason why shouting “fire” in a crowded theater would be wrong: it is because that theater is someone else’s private property.

I have a feeling however, judging by your rehashed non-sequitur arguments, that if making hateful comments in regards to organized religion were banned you'd be all up in arms about it.

It's ok when it's not happening to you though, right?

I think the important distinction here is HATE vs. CRIME. Any crime is punishable regardless if hate is involved or not. I don't see how "why" the crime was committed should matter. If I kill someone because I don''t like their shirt or kill someone because they are green...there is no difference. I killed someone and that is that. The punishment should fit the crime not the reason (or perceived reason) for the crime.

However (and this is an important however)...I have the right to hate anyone I wish, for any reason I may choose and I have the right to say that. THAT is fundamental to any "free" society. I am (or at least should be) allowed to hate, preach hate to others who will listen etc.

Why? Because YOUR definition of hate may not be mine. I have already heard, here on ATS as a matter of fact, people call others bigots or racist for not liking Obama. Translation...(in this example) if you don't like Obama, you are committing racial hatred. Still not a crime, but I hope you can see how that could easily be converted to a method of control.

Or...has it already?

"Christians" Today do not follow the word of Jesus...none of you. And YOU will prove my point!

You want to control what others think, do, and say.
If these are the rights that "god" gave you I don't want to have anything to do with it or him. You want to know what Jesus would say...love each other and MIND YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.

Keep religion and spirituality in your Home, Church, with Friends, Family and the people you love, for they are fruitful to each of us for different reasons. But if I say no I don't believe, the back the fire truck up and be my friend not my saviour. Morality may have been passed on through religions to the generations, and has taken us pretty far, but if man didn't evolve we would still be skinning deer with shards of stone.

I do not believe, but I can respect(/shrug).

I can understand the political outcry of this issue. This banning of free speech as controversial it may be is classic Orwellian society. Free speech is just that..free.

I do not understand why Christians are so upset... This is no way appears to be a muzzle on free religious views.. Are you upset becuase you can't bash homosexuals in church anymore? Who cares about Islam..

I'm not a Christians but I was for many years and the one thing I can't understand is how hypocritical Christians are... Does not your god say many times over to take care of your self and mind your own business.. "The greatest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians. Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their life style.- RIGHT?

Heres just a few off the top of my head:

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" John 8:7

" Judge not least ye be Judged" Matthew 7:1

" For in the same measure as you judge others, you will be judged with." Luke 6:38

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own" Luke 6:41

I'm pretty sure the over consensus here is Don't Judge others... Thats his job, and ohh ya LOVE ALL OTHERS!!

Let's be clear here.
This bill does not introduce legislation to censor free speech of any kind.
This bill includes new groups of people into existing hate crime legislation.

Please stop pretending this will infringe on religious freedoms as it does not.

The OP, in my opinion, lied to further their religious agenda.

Originally posted by jfj123
Let's be clear here.
This bill does not introduce legislation to censor free speech of any kind.
This bill includes new groups of people into existing hate crime legislation.

Personally, I think that is worse

I will not be able to cope now with the lads in a bar and we cant mock anyone. Will just have to talk about football (soccer) all day.

What nobody seems to grasp is why this bill is being re-introduced. John Conyers is the reason. This bill is written to protect the muslims in his district which are very numerous. This is the only reason why, the muslims have complained like they usually do that islam is being attacked.

The muslims do not want people in this country to be able to make fun of mohamed or any part of islam. This representative is merely kowtowing down to all muslims in Michigan. This has nothing to do with gays. The muslims want to stop christians from speaking ill of their false religion, period.

The right to free speech shall not be infringed upon! They cannot force someone to not say something, it is against our constitutional law. Hate speech is complete rubbish, the federal government cannot infringe upon your right to speak your mind about anything you want. That is why we have the second amendment, to keep the government in check when it grows too powerful and tries to dismantle our rights!

It is our right to say anything and everything without being prosecuted by the federal and local government. Obviously, this is excluding libel and slander, those are directed at an individual or entity, therefore, that should not be protected speech and it isn't.

I have admittedly not read this entire thread but I read most of it and it is despicable how twisted some people have reality. I am a Christian and I am a preacher, I will soon be a Pastor with First Assemblies of God which is a Pentecostal fellowship.
I will NEVER cease to speak the truth about homosexuality or Islam. I care not what the government claims because the commandments of my Lord come before the commandments of men.
I have a God given mission to be a light unto the world and bring the truth of Jesus Christ. The truth is that a homosexual lifestyle will lead you to hell and that Islam is a lie told by Satan. The path to hell is a very wide one while the path to heaven is a narrow road.
It is not hatred, it is the truth. The truth shall set you free!

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
I have admittedly not read this entire thread but I read most of it and it is despicable how twisted some people have reality. I am a Christian and I am a preacher, I will soon be a Pastor with First Assemblies of God which is a Pentecostal fellowship.
I will NEVER cease to speak the truth about homosexuality or Islam. I care not what the government claims because the commandments of my Lord come before the commandments of men.
I have a God given mission to be a light unto the world and bring the truth of Jesus Christ. The truth is that a homosexual lifestyle will lead you to hell and that Islam is a lie told by Satan. The path to hell is a very wide one while the path to heaven is a narrow road.
It is not hatred, it is the truth. The truth shall set you free!

This is the very reason something like this is needed. Unfounded spreading of hate and religious propaganda. While YOU might believe that Islam is spread by the devil, I happen to believe it isn't. I believe that all religions are false and do more harm than good in the world.

From what you have said, you are not a light unto the world, you are a beacon of ignorance, and you are spreading it. You are planting the seeds of hate and discord. This is what this is trying to prevent. People like you, pushing FALSE information on a group of people that are there to learn about Jesus and his teachings. You on the other hand are teaching the EXACT opposite of Jesus' message.

To censor any is to censor all.

sorry for the one liner,
but does anything else need to be said?


respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by george_gaz

Originally posted by jfj123
Let's be clear here.
This bill does not introduce legislation to censor free speech of any kind.
This bill includes new groups of people into existing hate crime legislation.

Personally, I think that is worse

I will not be able to cope now with the lads in a bar and we cant mock anyone. Will just have to talk about football (soccer) all day.

Again, this bill has nothing to do with reducing free speech.
You can mock all day every day.
What you can't do is assault a gay person because it won't just be assault anymore, it will also be a hate crime.
This just includes a new class of people in the hate crime legislation.

Just to be clear
THIS BILL HAS NO AFFECT ON FREE SPEECH !!!
THE OP HAS MISLEAD YOU !!!

Originally posted by stinkhorn
What nobody seems to grasp is why this bill is being re-introduced. John Conyers is the reason. This bill is written to protect the muslims in his district which are very numerous. This is the only reason why, the muslims have complained like they usually do that islam is being attacked.

The muslims do not want people in this country to be able to make fun of mohamed or any part of islam. This representative is merely kowtowing down to all muslims in Michigan. This has nothing to do with gays. The muslims want to stop christians from speaking ill of their false religion, period.

The right to free speech shall not be infringed upon! They cannot force someone to not say something, it is against our constitutional law. Hate speech is complete rubbish, the federal government cannot infringe upon your right to speak your mind about anything you want. That is why we have the second amendment, to keep the government in check when it grows too powerful and tries to dismantle our rights!

It is our right to say anything and everything without being prosecuted by the federal and local government. Obviously, this is excluding libel and slander, those are directed at an individual or entity, therefore, that should not be protected speech and it isn't.

Try reading the bill and you'll notice pretty much everything you just posted is wrong.

Originally posted by george_gaz

Originally posted by jfj123
Let's be clear here.
This bill does not introduce legislation to censor free speech of any kind.
This bill includes new groups of people into existing hate crime legislation.

Personally, I think that is worse

I will not be able to cope now with the lads in a bar and we cant mock anyone. Will just have to talk about football (soccer) all day.

Don't be too sure. When one thinks of the violence that is occasionally spawned by some sporting events, they may decide to officially remove the scoreboards, balls (or pucks), and time clocks. This way everybody wins... by that I mean everybody is equal.

For the record, and through my own freewill, I am a Christian. I am also human so please don't condemn me even thought I truly do try to walk the walk of my personal Savior (notice I am not forcing Him to be your personal Savior). Is it true that a majority of Christians could stand to be more Christ-like? You betcha.

Keep in mind, whilst perusing through the New Testament, and specifically the Gospels, I have yet to locate where Jesus Christ himself addresses the issue of homosexuality. In addition, many of the scriptures referred to do not just address the issue of homosexuality but the issue of sin in general.

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." ~Matthew 22:36-40

One: Do No Harm.
Two: Do Good.
Three: Stay in Love with God.
~John Wesley's 3 principles of spirituality.

And the trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, axe, and saw ~Rush

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
I have admittedly not read this entire thread but I read most of it and it is despicable how twisted some people have reality. I am a Christian and I am a preacher, I will soon be a Pastor with First Assemblies of God which is a Pentecostal fellowship.
I will NEVER cease to speak the truth about homosexuality or Islam. I care not what the government claims because the commandments of my Lord come before the commandments of men.
I have a God given mission to be a light unto the world and bring the truth of Jesus Christ. The truth is that a homosexual lifestyle will lead you to hell and that Islam is a lie told by Satan. The path to hell is a very wide one while the path to heaven is a narrow road.
It is not hatred, it is the truth. The truth shall set you free!

Well now now There sheperd. Im Bi and Im Wiccan. Does that mean im going to hell. Perhaps, but in your beliefs Your god gave us free will. The will to do whatever in the # we wanted to.

And until He strikes me down for my "Blasphemous" ways. Not a damn things going to change. I used to be christian, but what Ive noticed is that it was completely rewritting by king James to "control the masses into doing what he wanted them to.

"Its full of contradictions and lies." If you look at christianity from my perspective, its full of spiteful hateful people who only go to church to make themselves look good in society. Then they leave on Sunday, go home and commit adultry. -lilts my head back laughing- Ive seen it happen a lot. I came from a small christian town. And it happened to be pentacostal.

And by the way as for Speaking the truth of homosexuality, here a word to wise. Dont knock it until you try it, because in the words of Capt. Malcolm Reynolds from Serenity. "Listen to me Shepard Im not looking for help from on high" So take your black leather backed book of lies and hypocracy elsewhere and preach to the fuzzy wuzzies or something.

Hate crimes laws are stupid and shouldn't be passed.

A crime is no worse than another crime because it has to do with race of religion.

A crime is a crime, period.

All crimes come from hate.

This law is rubbish. Freedom of speech should be total, freedom of speech is there to protect the opinions of the minority, the opinion that is not liked by the majority of the population.