Riot Cops Killed Newspaper Seller At G20

Well my cause was against the global banking network and globalisation, i also care very much for the environment and i'm very concerned about the erosion of our rights in the UK(such as peaceful protestors being kettled into pens, the over abundant use of CCTV and the fact that it's now illegal for us to film anything that can be used as evidence for or against the law in regards to the police)....

I have to say now that not every police man is a bastard, as i mentioned in another thread, some of the coppers were nice blokes, but a LOT of them looked like footie fans ready for a fight, just itching to crack a skull or two... Take my word here. I was there.

On the same wave, not every anarchist is a trouble maker, I met many anti-establishment types who were shocked by the violence. I later visited a legal squat and was impressed by the manners, attitude and atmosphere of the place... They fed me and made sure i was fine... None of the stereotypical 'fight club' stuff here.

Not every protestor is an anarchist and not every protestor is there to protests against the same thing.

People need to realise this. Stop bunching everyone into the same category.

reply to post by Acidtastic


You are confused because you witnessed what went on and naturally felt angry about it and then come on here and have to justify your anger to people were not there. Simple. You are not the only one.

Originally posted by RE2505
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

You are confused because you witnessed what went on and naturally felt angry about it and then come on here and have to justify your anger to people were not there. Simple. You are not the only one.

Thanks, sometimes it feels like i am though. I dunno, I guess I'm also angry at why people can't see the missuse of police powers and illegal use of anti terrorism laws. It frustrates me, probably just as much as i frustrate those who hold such views. But, hey, I'm an open book, I'll be as honest as i can about my felings an emotions, even the negative ones.

Originally posted by Acidtastic

Originally posted by RE2505
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

You are confused because you witnessed what went on and naturally felt angry about it and then come on here and have to justify your anger to people were not there. Simple. You are not the only one.

Thanks, sometimes it feels like i am though. I dunno, I guess I'm also angry at why people can't see the missuse of police powers and illegal use of anti terrorism laws. It frustrates me, probably just as much as i frustrate those who hold such views. But, hey, I'm an open book, I'll be as honest as i can about my felings an emotions, even the negative ones.

you're not alone mate... I've been trying to tell people this for the last few days and nobody seems to be listening. Very frustrating, just ignore the people who don't have a clue or are trying to antagonise you.

Peace

*watch this space, because I've just read that there is video footage of Mr Tomlinson being assaulted by the police, and it's going to be on this afternoons/evenings news.

*if this doesn't happen, my source is going to get a slap upside the virtual head

[edit on 7/4/2009 by Acidtastic]

Don't you think that there is an element of childish anti-establishmentarianism amongst your views?

You seem to hate the way the world is governed at the moment- but what meaningful alternatives are there?

I guess we will never see eye to eye because you are collectivist and I am individualist. You believe that people are intrinsically altruistic, and I believe they are intrinsically self-serving.

If the system is broken, then it needs careful and considered reform. It does not need wholesale disbandment.

In my personal opinion, to achieve that reform, it needs a more intellectual approach than protesting. That is why I will be entering politics in the future- to make the actual changes rather than simply noise about changes.

What has protest ever achieved? Any change has always been achieved by the sword or politics (the threat of the sword).

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Don't you think that there is an element of childish anti-establishmentarianism amongst your views?

Quite possibly, but I don;t know if childish is the right term.
[qoute]
You seem to hate the way the world is governed at the moment- but what meaningful alternatives are there? many Like what the venus project say, there is a way to live our lives without the economic slavery that we are currently working under.

I guess we will never see eye to eye because you are collectivist and I am individualist. You believe that people are intrinsically altruistic, and I believe they are intrinsically self-serving.

That's cool, we don't have to see eye to eye, this is a pretty hot topic, and we won;t all share the sme views on it.

If the system is broken, then it needs careful and considered reform. It does not need wholesale disbandment.

In my personal opinion, to achieve that reform, it needs a more intellectual approach than protesting. That is why I will be entering politics in the future- to make the actual changes rather than simply noise about changes.

I think that protesting is a good start, as it shows that there are people who want change, and are willing to take to the streets to make a point, i feel it's important to make a stand against those in charge. Otherwsie they'll just carry on reguardless, without any feear of reprisal.

What has protest ever achieved? Any change has always been achieved by the sword or politics (the threat of the sword).

Poll tax riots stopped the poll tax (which was renamed and brought in anyway) There have been over throws of goverments through protests, coup de tats ect. (over the world) They can be good at drawing attention to certain issues that aren't being addressed properly in goverments. On a more personal level, they can make you feel as though you're not just sitting there letting bad people do bad things for free. Like you're making some kind of difference.

It seems there is some CCTV footage of the man collapsing, that is probably what will be released on the news. Its also interesting to note BBC are reporting that he was not in a police corden when he collapsed.

news.bbc.co.uk...

There is a pic and a small video in the link, and a journalists eyewitness account on the report.

www.mirror.co.uk...

The man who died from a heart attack in London's G20 protest was pushed by police, investigators said.

Ian Tomlinson, 47, collapsed minutes after CCTV showed him trying to cross a police line in the City on his way home after work.

Deborah Glass, of the Independent Police Complaints Commission, said: "We're seeing if it had anything to do with his death."

yep, looks like there is CCTV footage. Hope that it helps Mr Tomlinsons family get closure, and the answers they're looking for.

He wasn't in a Police cordon. He was outside with the rest of us getting pushed away from the cordoned climate campers by lines of riot police and dog handlers..

reply to post by Acidtastic


But was it the poll tax riots that prevented the poll tax being implemented?

Or was it Thatcher's fear of losing votes at the next election.

Personally I just don't think protest achieves anything. The only way to slay a dragon is either by force from the outside, or to destroy it from within. Shouting into a dragon's face achieves nothing

I dunno, i reckon if you shout loud enough at Maggy T, she'd have a heart attack

At the end of the day, it looks like we're 2 peas in completly different pods, with opposing opinions. We're not likley to agree on much (but feel free to come play in my newly started thread about G20 agent provocateurs)

The next time a protest is planned hire those soccer fans (seen in the video on another thread) as security. Arm them all with cans of spray paint and bear guard. Spay their masks with paint so they can't see, when they lift their visor give them a blast of bear guard. Then give them a good beating to teach them to stay home and love their families, instead of playing the tough guy with a gang of thugs.

“Initially we had accounts from independent witnesses who were on Cornhill, who told us that there had been no contact between the police and Mr Tomlinson when he collapsed. However, other witnesses who saw him in the Royal Exchange area have since told us that Mr Tomlinson did have contact with police officers. This would have been a few minutes before he collapsed. It is important that we are able to establish as far as possible whether that contact had anything to do with his death.”

Anybody who saw Mr Tomlinson in Royal Exchange Square is asked to contact the IPCC on 0800-096 9071 or email [email protected].

www.ipcc.gov.uk...

The IPCC is the independant police complaints division.

So the investigation continues, it does seem like he had some contact with the po lice.

reply to post by suicydking


In my home town , we have a tradition . Mayday brings with it legions of Bikers , who come to bask in the coastal sun, drink , and enjoy the seaside town in which I live.
Now I have no problem with that, but to get to my friends place I have to walk through the middle of the bikers. Now this is no great problem , but if they get drunk and start fighting, that makes walking around , and going about my business difficult. Guess what? I do it anyway . I have , and will continue, to walk through the middle of a riot. Theres nothing in law saying that a person must avoid undesireable attention (a bottle to the head) . The law is , that the bottles must not be swung, and offensive unprovoked punches must not be thrown. Therefore the law supports my right to plough through a mass of people, if my intentions are limited to going about my business without being harrased.

reply to post by TrueBrit



lol
But doesnt common sense tell you to avoid such places in case of an unforseen incident. Fair enough its your right but when you cop a bottle around the head, would you be suprised? Dont know about you but i would not go for a stroll in the middle of a firefight in Kabul simply because i can.

reply to post by pazcat



Thanks for the link, I have left a message for them to call me. I saw him pushed over by at least one riot police officer. I hope I can help.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
was it the poll tax riots that prevented the poll tax being implemented?

It wasn't the riots and threats of civil disobedience that killed of the Poll Tax, it was down to the actions of the many ordinary folk across the land who quite simply refused to pay up.

That simple action magnified on a national scale did far more to change government economic policy than any direct confrontation ever did...

As I've said before...the wallet packs more punch than the fist ever will.

Confrontation may produce a very small and immediate effect, but to sway the opinion of the ordinary person requires a far more subtle, far more coherent approach that can illustrate why it will affect them.

Standing back from the situation and analysing the long-term view may not be as glamourous, sexy, or exciting as taking on the authorities, but achieves far more, and will be a longer lasting philosophy

[edit on 7-4-2009 by citizen smith]

reply to post by RE2505


No worries, i thought that info might be usefull for some, lets just hope that they get back to you and others and can publish the truth of what happened.

reply to post by pazcat


I will admit it takes a certain veiw of things to walk into the middle of such a thing, but my point is that one must excersize ones rights to freedom of movement, or else have them taken away quietly without one noticing. That loss of rights would be worse than all the bottles, fists, feet, elbows and bricks to the head that I could get from going for a stroll in Bedlam!
To many of us allow mob culture to stop us being free in the manner which our countries laws allow. I say stand up for your right to walk free in the realm in which you live, never allow either the state of your nation , or the government to curtail your rights in any way . Crush oppression, no matter who is dishing it out.