"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


I disagree. I feel religion and science ask different questions. Science asks How. Religion asks Why.

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I disagree. I feel religion and science ask different questions. Science asks How. Religion asks Why.

I don't see religion asking much. You have to take things on "faith", and thinking too hard about "why" is not kosher.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I disagree. I feel religion and science ask different questions. Science asks How. Religion asks Why.

I don't see religion asking much. You have to take things on "faith", and thinking too hard about "why" is not kosher.

Your answers do not ellaborate on what you mean. How can you actually say religion is stagnant?! To be honest, unless you start responding with more intellectual based reasoning, rather than just stating your opinions, there really is not point in this dicussion.

You believe in science and you believe it disproves religion. Explain...HOW?

Originally posted by Toughiv
..you believe it disproves religion. Explain...HOW?

The great prayer experiment sure showed that praying is pointless. Our scientific discoveries have disproved all creation myths.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by ToughivYou believe in science and you believe it disproves religion. Explain...HOW?

"Science" doesn't disprove religion, it simply shows it is not a very likely explanation for everything religion claims to do. The sciences of archeology and geology show that the Earth is far older than anything claimed in the creation myths (excepting the ones that claim the Earth is eternal, but that's disproved as well.) The science of astronomy shows that the Universe isn't obedient to any religious dogma I'm aware of.

Religion is only in the mind. Science is in the real world.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Toughiv
..you believe it disproves religion. Explain...HOW?

The great prayer experiment sure showed that praying is pointless. Our scientific discoveries have disproved all creation myths.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by rhinoceros]

The great prayer experiment (never heard of this) disproves prayer...how? And please ellaborate, how does it DISPROVE creation myths?

How are you interpreting the creation myths? With a literal or symbollic understanding?

Enlighten me

Originally posted by rhinocerosThe great prayer experiment sure showed that praying is pointless. Our scientific discoveries have disproved all creation myths.

The prayer experiment, IMHO, showed that praying to the particular "god" involved is useless, as that god doesn't answer prayers. However, it could be that the god in question simply doesn't care to answer questions. In which case if he/she/it was actually proven to exist I wouldn't care to worship him/her/it.

Originally posted by ToughivHow are you interpreting the creation myths? With a literal or symbollic understanding?

Enlighten me

Is the Bible the Word of God, pure and undiluted? Or is it simply the stories men have written about what they think God is?

In the first case, why would it be wrong in so many cases if it is the Word of God.

In the second case, why would I accept some other person's take on God, especially the God of the Bible, who is a total berk IMNSHO.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by rhinocerosThe great prayer experiment sure showed that praying is pointless. Our scientific discoveries have disproved all creation myths.

The prayer experiment, IMHO, showed that praying to the particular "god" involved is useless, as that god doesn't answer prayers. However, it could be that the god in question simply doesn't care to answer questions. In which case if he/she/it was actually proven to exist I wouldn't care to worship him/her/it.

I believe everybody has their own understanding on the "nature of God". Who are we to question a higher being answering or not answering prayers.

Overall, i do not believe god plays an active role within creation. Otherwise that would lead to an arbritary God. A god who puts food on someones table but does not stop the hollocaust?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Firstly, I am not arguing for the authenticity of the Bible. I wouldnt even try to do that, i am not an idiot. The bible was canonized by man. That in itself destroys its "infallable-ness" lol.

However, I do still believe there are universal truths to be learnt from the bible when we look past the cultural, social etc influence. To interpret the Bible symbollically, to get to the "kernel of truth". I am not saying the Bible should be taken as an account of God's nature. It is however, a very good guide when read intellectually, not word for word.

For example, Jesus turning water to wine and serving it at the party. Then someone commenting on how they are serving better wine at the end (it wasnt the usual custom since you usually served the best wine first, then when people are drunk, serve the lower quality wine).

When you look at this symbollical, wine is symbollical referenced throughout the Torah as Law. Jesus turning water to wine, portrayed that he brought about new laws, a better set of laws, a new way to live life. Not that he actually chemically turnt water to wine. (please check all of this if you do not believe me).

Brad

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by ToughivYou believe in science and you believe it disproves religion. Explain...HOW?

"Science" doesn't disprove religion, it simply shows it is not a very likely explanation for everything religion claims to do. The sciences of archeology and geology show that the Earth is far older than anything claimed in the creation myths (excepting the ones that claim the Earth is eternal, but that's disproved as well.) The science of astronomy shows that the Universe isn't obedient to any religious dogma I'm aware of.

Religion is only in the mind. Science is in the real world.

What we have to realise is, religion (creation stories at least) were actually written as a prayer. If you begin to appreciate the complexity of them through symbollic interpretation i dont believe you can write it off. For example, God said "let there be light". What happened at the big bang? There was a RIDICULOUS amount of light and heat etc. You have to remember who they were writing for.

Overall this discussion that intelligent design is incredulous. You challenged me when i said it is a leap of faith, and now you are agreeing with me? Backpedalling much?

Brad

reply to post by Toughiv


Why do we have to "realise" that the creation stories were written as prayers?

I really don't see your inference that I'm agreeing with you, btw.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Toughiv

 

Why do we have to "realise" that the creation stories were written as prayers?

I really don't see your inference that I'm agreeing with you, btw.

I say that because people try to scientifically breakdown the Bible, without realising it wasnt supposed to be a logical, scientific explanation. The Bible was written by the "greatest minds within their society", i.e. the great philosophers / soothsayers etc of their times. (old testament anyway).

Im glad you are agreeing. So when you mocked my idea of "leap of faith" what were you getting at? I fear we went a bit off topic (was a good little debate though)

reply to post by Toughiv


So The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales was written by the greatest minds of their day? Really? Because most of it is just plain badly written.

It's good that you agree that it's not the Word of God, btw, but just some stories told by human beings. That resolves the factual basis of it. Good work, that man!

reply to post by Gawdzilla


I have to admit i have never come across The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales, this is in the Bible? :S

Thanks! (yeh i dont not personally believe in organised religion, it is just another form of control)

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Toughiv]

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I have to admit i have never come across The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales, this is in the Bible? :S

The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales IS the Bible.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Ok i understand what your getting at. Very humourous. I.e. it might as well be called that?

Fair dues, but all im arguing now is it does contain insightful information. That you cannot disagree, now however i feel we are on the same page

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

Ok i understand what your getting at. Very humourous. I.e. it might as well be called that?

Fair dues, but all im arguing now is it does contain insightful information. That you cannot disagree, now however i feel we are on the same page

I believe in truth in labeling.

So how is it different from any other book with insightful information? People can find something they like in just about any book.

If you look at this world and all the things around us,the incredible beauty everywhere,the complexity of living things,the human body,etc etc ,how can anyone be stupid enough to fight against intelligent design?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


It isnt really, and i havent tried to argue such. I was arguing religion in general vs science. How they CAN go hand in hand. Rather than pitted against eachother. I treat all religious texts as guides, well thought out guides from a certain perspective.

Good and Evil are subjective. Therefore, no guide apart from your own is every going to qualify completely.