dinosaur conspiracy

Introduction

When children go to a dinosaur museum, are the displays they see displays of science or displays of art and science fiction? Are we being deceived and brainwashed at an early age into believing a dinosaur myth? Deep probing questions need to be asked of the entire dinosaur business.

This article will discuss the possibility that there may have been an ongoing effort since the earliest dinosaur "discoveries" to plant, mix and match bones of various animals, such as crocodiles, alligators, iguanas, giraffes, elephants, cattle, kangaroos, ostriches, emus, dolphins, whales, rhinoceroses, etc. to construct and create a new man-made concept prehistoric animal called the dinosaur.

Where bones from existing animals are not satisfactory for deception purposes, plaster substitutes may be manufactured and used. Some material similar or superior to plasticine clay or plaster of Paris would be suitable. Molds may also be employed. A 144-page book titled "Make Your Own Dinosaur Out of Chicken Bones" provides step-by-step instructions complete with detailed drawings and diagrams.

internet.ocii.com...

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 6-4-2009 by asala]

dinosaurs CANT exist in earths gravity!

THE IMPOSSIBLE DINOSAURS

Ted Holden

A careful study of the sizes of the giant dinosaurs creatures and of what it
would take to deal with such sizes in our world, the felt effect of gravity
being what it is now, indicates that something was massively different in the
world which these creatures inhabited.

A look at sauropod dinosaurs as we know them today requires that we relegate
the brontosaur, once thought to be one of the largest sauropods, to
welterweight or at most middleweight status. Fossil finds dating from the
1970's dwarf him. The Avon field Guide to Dinosaurs shows a brachiosaur
(larger than a brontosaur), a supersaur, and an ultrasaur juxtaposed, and the
ultrasaur dwarfs the others. Christopher McGowan's "Dinosaurs, Spitfires, &
Sea Dragons", Harvard, 1991 cites a 180 ton weight estimate for the ultrasaur
(page 118), and (page 104) describes the volume-based methods of estimating
dinosaur weights. McGowan is Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology at the Royal
Ontario Museum.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by asala]

Hi and welcome to ATS.

We have a habit of crediting the original source of articles we post here on ATS.

A quick google search revealed one of the sources of this work internet.ocii.com, do you mind including any others.

We also try to include our thoughts and ideas in our OP and not just copying and pasting someone else's work.

I know you are new here so hopefully this was an honest mistake on your part.

Having said that, it looks like an interesting perspective on dinosaurs, thank you for sharing it with us.

Edit: And kronia.com


[edit on 6 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

As the nephew of a paleontologist i am going to have to disagree with you on most of it as i have not been able to finish reading , i have to go to football training, but in regards to the Gravity and dinosaurs not being able to withstand it in its present form that may be true, but gravity and the chemical concentrations where completely different back then to what they are now.

The Moon was a hell of a lot closer to us, making the earths gravity weaker to ours today among other things, and the atmosphere was a lot more oxygen rich as well.

i am hoping this isnt another move by the creationists to dismiss evolution.

its ok to trump science w/ science, but when you say science is wrong because god says so, thats bull[SNIP].

(and moderators, were all grown ups here, i think we can all take profanity, dont u agree?)

Mod Edit: No, we don't agree. Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 7-4-2009 by Gemwolf]

Well first and foremost before I share the opposing point of view, welcome to this site and good first post! I have the same book as you but never bothered to make a dinosaur out of used chicken, gross, besides the brontosaurus looked way off from the real ones to me.
I have numbered my points, for some reason.

1.

suggests an imperfect God who came up with the idea of man as an afterthought, thus demoting the biblical idea that God created man in His own image.

But it doesnt, God could still create man in his image even if he created dinosaurs first!

2.

Why were there no discoveries by native Americans in all the years previous when they roamed the American continents? There is no belief of dinosaurs in the native American religion or tradition.

First, to know this you would have to know every detail of every Native religion. Second, not like they knew they should be digging far into the ground to find useless fossilised bones. Third, they were discovered in other parts of the world centuries and centuries ago, people thought they were dragons.

3.

Taller than a house, it had the pelvic structure of a bird, the tail of a lizard and, incredibly, it walked upright on two legs, foraging with arm-like forelimbs."

Were the bones of a bird and lizard and other animals used in the discovery?

They would have to be pretty huge birds and lizards. Thunderbird maybe?

4.

but rather by people with vested interests, such as paleontologists, scientists, university professors, and museum organization personnel who were intentionally looking for dinosaur bones or who have studied dinosaurs previously. The finds are often made during special dinosaur-bone hunting trips and expeditions by these people to far-away regions already inhabited and explored. This seems highly implausible.

Exactly like religious artifacts are found by religious people, who are deliberately searching for them, with vested interests, in places already explored, by people who profit off them.

More believable is the case of the discovery of the first original Dead Sea scrolls in 1947, which were unintentionally discovered by a child, and which were all published by 1955.

Im glad you mentioned this, the first thought was of the dead sea scrolls actually, I find it odd that you do not doubt them but doubt non-religious finds.

5.

Also, a multitude of bones and dinosaurs are strangely found in the same place, suggesting possible planting of bones.

If people find deer and wolf and bird bones together, is it strange too?

6.

The article T-Rex bones on sale for a cool $12 million indicates that the business of being a "commercial fossil collecting firm" is potentially very lucrative!

Because not everyone has a cool T-rex in their living room!! And how much do toast with picture of Virgin Mary go for on ebay?

7.

The movie Jurassic Park is an example of showing dinosaurs much larger than any current displays in museums. After the movie came out, it is interesting to note that many articles were written asking "Is this possible?". I recall a report of dinosaur DNA being discovered preserved in amber, which later turned out to be false.

Movies always exaggerate, ever seen one of the thousands of movies where the American hero shoots dozens of guys with more bullets than his clip can hold, standing out in the open, not getting hit by dozens of AKs all pointed at him at close range? Man hes good!

8.

How are all these dead atoms intelligent enough to know what to do and where to go to produce the finished fossil?

How are other atoms intelligent enough to know to turn into dust, or soil?

9.

(Some herds were big enough to cover a whole state)."

Seriously? Wouldnt they run out of food? A state sized herd would eat a state sized amount of food in a day, 50 days dead lol. have you ever seen buffalo all they do is eat!

10.

dynamic stresses within the bones of the largest dinosaurs indicate that they were too large to move fast without injuring themselves.

Thats what I thought about rhinos until I saw a zookeeper nearly ket killed lol... he had to sprint.

"This idea of slow moving animals does not agree with the bio-mechanical analysis of dinosaurs,

We cant have accurate analysis because we have no idea of their muscles.

11.

There are people who desire and crave prestige, fame and attention. There is the bandwagon effect and crowd behaviour. And then there are people and entities pursuing political and religious agendas.

Same with religious discoveries.

12.

while Christians claim that the “Bible says the world is about six thousand years old”.

The bible doesnt give a number, Christians dont all think that. More properly would say "humanity about 6000 years old".

13.

Of course, a goal of Satan is to cast doubt on the credibility of the Christian Bible.

Doesnt need to it casts enough doubt on itself lol.

14.

"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth” (Mark 9:23).

A very powerful quote, maybe you should reread. He says that beliefs become reality, and therefore are dangerous.

15.

Questioning what is being told instead is a better choice rather than blindly believing the dinosaur story. Issues should be carefully considered for the sake of good science.

EXACTLY!! Question everything! Like, why does the churches promote the name 'Jesus' when Jesus never existed, there was a Joshua (pronounced yahshua), king of the Jews, no 'Jesus', and why they promote the idea of light skinned blue eyed saviour, to coincide with Western society? Why not show a realistic picture of middle eastern man?

Wow! All I can say Is I certainly would want you on my debate team but no where near my children.This apple is not going to try to paint the orange red. It's canvas can only be viewed by the wall.


Cheers!



~Hyp

There was more oxygen, about 30% compared to today's 21%.

Earth seems to have grown in size - there is a theory which says that the great continent split because of Earth's growing in size instead of continental plates simply splitting for unknown reason. This would explain change in gravity.

reply to post by chan_chap


Ironically enough, the State of Utah contains a great amount of proof of the antiquity and existance of dinosaurs. I spent several years in south-central Utah, whose people worked primarily in conjunction with the raidroads and coal mines. Nearly every household at that time had a "coal" dinosaur footprint. It was a novelty. Most of them I saw were 3-toed. Dinosaurs stepped in mud/organic material that later compacted and condensed into coal and the inverse footprint formed a different plane -- thus they are three-dimensional and about two feet across. They "pop" out of the coal veins in a somewhat linear footpath pattern, and, at least at that time, the miners were allowed to bring them home. All over this state are also several footprints embedded in sandstone.

Over on the northeastern portion of the state, near Vernal, are some of the most impressive dinosaur digs I've ever seen. Amazing, beautiful even...... and several digs in process still have the fossilized dinosaurs in situ. That would be impossible to mock up -- fossilized dinosaur bones imbedded and encapsulated in rock, particularly in a state whose religious foundations were not supportive of evolutionary theory. From what I recall, there was no disagreement there whether dinosaurs existed; there was just disagreement as to how old the fossils are.

The evidence supporting the existance of dinosaurs is huge and conclusive -- the above ditty just from personal experience off the top of my head. I believe that the timelines suggested are possibly flawed, however much more accurate than the assumption that the Earth is but 12,000 years old. Put another way..... if a paleontologist studies and dates a T-Rex at 155 million years old...... he or she might be 10 million years off, but that's infinitely accurate over the Creationist museum in Tulsa that claim their T-Rex is only 5000 years old.

Cheers

[edit on 6-4-2009 by argentus]

Originally posted by bfitz92
As the nephew of a paleontologist i am going to have to disagree with you on most of it as i have not been able to finish reading , i have to go to football training, but in regards to the Gravity and dinosaurs not being able to withstand it in its present form that may be true, but gravity and the chemical concentrations where completely different back then to what they are now.

The Moon was a hell of a lot closer to us, making the earths gravity weaker to ours today among other things, and the atmosphere was a lot more oxygen rich as well.

Good point. I'd also like to point out that the Earth gains an average of 40,000 metric tonnes of weight each year due to space debris impacting our planet. That represents a 0.000003% weight gain per yer. At the point of the mass extinction 65 million years ago, the Earth was 2.6 quadrillion tons lighter than it is now. Going further into the past, at the point of the arrival of dinosaurs (245 million years) that weight was decreased even further to 10 quadrillion tons. Would that equate to the Earth having lower gravity, thus dinosaurs weighing less? I really don't know, but to me it seems at least plausible.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
There was more oxygen, about 30% compared to today's 21%.

Earth seems to have grown in size - there is a theory which says that the great continent split because of Earth's growing in size instead of continental plates simply splitting for unknown reason. This would explain change in gravity.

Or the concentration of Dark Matter or whatever in our planet has increased, thus having stronger gravity now.

I also believe that such size of dinosaurs would also imply tremendous weight. In our present gravity, they would hardly be able to move.. If they did, they must have muscles relatively far stronger and more powerful than any animal in existence today.

It is said that Earth's atmosphere in those days, in addition to being more highly oxygenated, was also much denser and therefore more buoyant. This, we are told, would have helped the dinosaurs bear their enormous weights.

Personally, I don't find the explanation altogether convincing. However, it is obvious that dinosaurs must have existed and we know from information contained in their trackways not just that they stood and walked, but how they stood and walked. However implausible it seems to anyone, there is no doubt that it happened.

By the way, OP, the fossil remains are stones, not bones, so it's impossible to fake dinosaur skeletons out of animal bones. Unless, of course, they're fossilized animal bones... but fossilization takes millions of years. So they'd have to be ancient animals anyway. The YEC crowd just can't seem to win, can they?

Why assume dinosaurs needed lesser gravity? Who says they couldn't survive under current gravitational conditions - other than people who claim the Earth was created in 4004BC? It's a big straw man I'm afraid.

And anyway, how come marine reptiles were smaller than marine mammals today? Or was gravity greater in the sea than on land?

And if they're fake how did all those dinosaur bones found by ordinary people all over the world every year - often washed out of river banks or found at the foot of cliffs - get there?

Dinosaur bones provided the origins for many legends and mythical creatures, including in N America the Thunderbird.

Although it's also worth remembering that most dinosaurs were only the size of chickens ....... and the only bones we find are those from the handful of animals that each year (for millions of years) were swept into large rivers and buried in estuarine deposits, or caught in volcanic eruptions and buried under ash. It's likely that we will never know anything of the majority of species that existed.

The only conspiracy about dinos involves those who refuse to acknowledge their existance.

My father is deep in the paleontology world and has gone on digs all over the world. I have even gone on some digs myself. He has quite the collection of actual dino specimens. On top of that he is a paleo sculptor and restorer for museums and universities all over the world. He has paleo friends who have actually dug up major finds.

Anyone who dismisses that dinos exist needs to go spend a week out on a dig IMO.

My father's work:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5b6c9f03a2ba.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/676fc3367a83.jpg[/atsimg] .....Full Resolution

More images:
smu.edu...

Based on this find:

smu.edu...
Amateur Finds Prehistoric Lizard
That Returned to the Sea
When amateur fossil finder Van Turner discovered a small vertebra at a construction site near Dallas 16 years ago, he knew the creature was unlike anything in the fossil record. Scientists now know the significance of Turner’s fossil as the origin of an extinct line of lizards with an evolutionary twist: a land-dwelling species that became fully aquatic.

[edit on 4/7/2009 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Hi and welcome to ATS.

We have a habit of crediting the original source of articles we post here on ATS.

A quick google search revealed one of the sources of this work internet.ocii.com, do you mind including any others.

We also try to include our thoughts and ideas in our OP and not just copying and pasting someone else's work.

I know you are new here so hopefully this was an honest mistake on your part.

Having said that, it looks like an interesting perspective on dinosaurs, thank you for sharing it with us.

Edit: And kronia.com

hello the other article was written by Ted Holden, its an old article and been posted on many sites it dosent have any "source" website
its a famous article called Impossible Dinosaurs,
its not copyrighted in anyway and its unfortunate that u chose to delete it,
often times many times websites like these gets shut down and the information forgotten,the only reason i copy and pasted it so if the website gets shutdown ppl stil can get the information... it wont happen again if its against the rules.....
is it only for copyrighted material?

[edit on 6 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Hey Dude Welcome to ATS!Dude if i can(But most likely i would really interrogate my mom..) but come on brainwash?!What do we get shocked everytime i think...Oh wait dinosaurs are real yeah!Then....BZZZZZZZ.Was it like that?We most likely dont know yet (Not unless we build a time machine)We wont know till we really see one in actual person but dinosaurs are real(Well in my perspective)How will you explain the fossils and the such.Not a conspiracy dude not a conspiracy.

This appears to be a copy of Holden's full article:

www.freerepublic.com...

Well...

To each their own -

Just don't shove it down my throat

GOD'S creation, being MAN, has spent countless generations using SCIENTIFIC method ( ALSO PRESUMABLY SANCTIONED AND CREATED BY GOD - SINCE IT EXISTS) trying to gain a glimmer of our past and you.... nevermind

If you don't like science maybe you should forgo antibiotics, asprin and the computer...

Couldn't all those massive Sauropods have lived in swamps/water ? I mean the only super massive Mammals we see today are Whales and their weight is buoyed up by water as its the only way they could exist.