Is Global Warming Real or Not? [SURVEY]

Yes the climate is changing..shock horror.Its not anthropological though imo.

Originally posted by space cadet
Do you believe that global warming, or it's new name 'climate change' is and has been taking place?

Global warming is simply one aspect of climate change. It's global warming which is the newer name. I believe that climate change is certainly taking place and that there is also some underlying 'global' warming.

Do you think that global warming is a natural occurence, or man made?

I believe that human activity is amplifying natural processes. ie it will warm and cool naturally, but due to human activity, it is slightly warmer/less cool than it would otherwise be.

I also, for the record, believe that human activity is responsible for other aspects of climate change, notably precipitation patterns, and that this is currently a bigger worry and concern than temperature changes.

Bit of both.

It is basic physics that releasing billions of tonnes of GHGs result in changes in radiative balance. It's been known for over 100 years. And that's just one of the anthro influences.

However, that doesn't negate natural variation and the evidence does show that solar effects have also forced warming last century.

Like the natural (genetics) and anthro (e.g., smoking) causes of cancer, there is only one we can readily influence, though.

Originally posted by melatonin
Like the natural (genetics) and anthro (e.g., smoking) causes of cancer, there is only one we can readily influence, though.

Good analogy I might pinch that to use myself sometime

Originally posted by Essan
I also, for the record, believe that human activity is responsible for other aspects of climate change, notably precipitation patterns, and that this is currently a bigger worry and concern than temperature changes.

precipitation as in rainfall?

i know why it's a bad thing but i thought that the changes were linked pretty clearly to warming, at least in my mind. you seem to see them as separate issues, what am i missing?

I think that climate change is very real. It seems to me that we have been seeing a gradual increase in "freak" or otherwise extremely uncommon weather patterns.

As for whether this weather is natural or man-made....I will stick my neck out and say that it is not an "or" but an "and." I think that the changes are a natural progression, BUT that our activity serves to exacerbate this change. I think that there is no harm from trying to limit our exacerbation of the environmental problem, except for the short term profit margins of the companies and individuals most responsible.

I think that a failure to do so only illustrates Man's shortsightedness and inability to change, unless forced to through fear or for monetary profit.

Is there GW and climate change. Yes.
Are we a cause, umm....let me see, massive deforestation at 7.3 million hectares a year which may account for 30% of Greenhouse emmissions, terra forming via expansion of urban settlement and industrialisation, 6 billion people and counting, the advances in huge agriculture and livestock production(more land clearing, soil salination and top soil degredation and loss, redirection of rivers, waterways and systems, daming for irrigation and power production, strip minning, fossil fuel burning, unsustainable fishing and hunting killing of species in biological systems with little or no understanding of symbiotic relationships or co-dependance, see all that again due to deforestation.

[begin sarcasm]So yeah I basically believe there is no way we could be effecting the climate or the planet, I mean there are cycles right, those oil guys say that its all cycles, like thousands of years ago......umm even when there were no humans, so cycles that we can refer to thousands of years ago derived from ice core data, ice that is now in danger of melting, in fact that is now melting, umm ice that has been there for millions of years that we get these cycles from but is now in danger of melting HELLO, describing conditions thousands of years ago but like automatically dismisses 6 billion humans as any possible cause or effect, because like its a cycle. So yeah i can basically gaurentee you 100% that it ain't us, at all, not even a bit, its like a cycle that we've seen before, except umm with none of the above little stuff that WE do.[end sarcasm].

I believe it's real. I believe that mankind certainly contributes but isn't wholly responsible as there's a myriad of factors to take into consideration, possibly even as yet unknown factors too. Ultimately, climate change is part of earth's history and was long before man discovered fire or farming. However, that doesn't mean we should sit back and let it happen, especially if we've contributed in anyway at all to this.

I'm also not keen on the term 'global warming' either as it paints a ridiculously simple picture. 'Global warming' will, for example, mean incredible cooling for Britain if the Atlantic conveyor belt completely dissipates.

Originally posted by pieman

precipitation as in rainfall?

i know why it's a bad thing but i thought that the changes were linked pretty clearly to warming, at least in my mind. you seem to see them as separate issues, what am i missing?

Mass deforestation has a big impact on regional and global rainfall patterns

For example:

www.nasa.gov...

cat.inist.fr...

www.chowk.com...

Yes, I do believe in global warming. I think the term "climate change" is probably more accurate. When the average global temperature increases it can paradoxically cause temperature decreases in some localities, as well as other weather anomalies, notably increases in the number and/or severity of storms, increases in precipitation, etc.

Is the climate change we are experiencing anthropogenic in nature? I don't have enough information to answer that question. My personal theory is that it is likely. I would like to see the issue investigated scientifically, but all too often it is being muddied by various political interests. I noticed several people on this forum posting links to sources that are known to be biased against AGW. That's like "proving" God by quoting passages from the Bible. It doesn't prove anything.

I also wouldn't be too quick about jumping to conclusions that AGW is disproved by the fact that the rest of the solar system is warming up. I haven't seen any hard evidence that the rest of our solar system really is warming up. Last heard, only four planets were experiencing warming, out of eight official planets and hundreds of moons and other bodies. It would be surprising if some planets were NOT experiencing warming or cooling as a result of orbital or seasonal variations. If warming of our entire solar system is occurring, why isn't Venus warming up?

Originally posted by pieman

i am saying that the CO2, among other things, that human activity is currently releasing into the atmosphere wouldn't naturally be there were humans not releasing it.

You are wrong, we didn't create CO2 out of thin air.

The CO2 that is released by mankind has always existed on Earth and will always exist, and there is no proof whatsoever, apart from claims and computer models which are flawed there is no evidence to support the claim of Global Warming.

Global Warming is the claim that anthropogenic CO2 is the main cause of the ongoing Climate Change, so the claim of Global Warming is wrong.

Climate Change however is real, it is always happening, and sometimes the changes are more dramatic than at other times.

During the Roman Warming, the Medieval Warming, and the LIA atmospheric CO2 levels did not change much, yet temperatures around the world changed dramatically.

This alone is proof that the process of Climate Change has nothing to do with CO2, unless the release is massive, which mankind could never do even over the course of 10,000 years.

The only events capable of releasing CO2 into the attmosphere which could influence the temperatures are massive underwater volcanoe activity releasing the CO2, methane and other GHGs trapped in the ocean floor, as well as water vapor, or a Comet strike into the ocean.

Even then during E.L.E.s the volcanic activity, or the impact of the meteor, or comet itself would kill most life before the massive amount of CO2, methane, water vapor, and other GHGs could influence the temperatures on Earth.

Mankind influences the environment in some areas, but we have no influcence on the global temperatures. Even the heat island effects affect only cities, and not the surrounding areas without pavement.

There are more important things we really need to take care of if you want to "help" the environment, such as the massive plastic islands in the oceans, and real toxic materials and liquids being spilled into rivers, lakes, and oceans by nations which the Green movement has no control, or impact over.



[edit on 9-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by pieman

i am saying that the CO2, among other things, that human activity is currently releasing into the atmosphere wouldn't naturally be there were humans not releasing it.

You are wrong, we didn't create CO2 out of thin air.

He didn't say that. So why introduce an obvious strawman?

Are you suggesting that were there no humans on Earth then making concrete, deforestation and the burning of fossil fuels would still be occurring?

Otherwise how can you argue that human activity is not releasing into the atmosphere CO2 which would have otherwise laid dormant in rocks, trees and fossil fuels?



[edit on 9-4-2009 by Essan]

Originally posted by Essan

He didn't say that. So why introduce an obvious strawman?

Are you suggesting that were there no humans on Earth then making concrete, deforestation and the burning of fossil fuels would still be occurring?

Otherwise how can you argue that human activity is not releasing into the atmosphere CO2 which would have otherwise laid dormant in rocks, trees and fossil fuels?

Strawman? It was not a strawman. That member specifically said the CO2 would not exist without human activity.

Just like you said about deforestation, the making of concrete etc,etc, who is to say that with mankind drilling into the Earth we haven't slowly released pressure which would have caused the massive release of much higher levels of CO2 by some mayor catastrophe we avoided with drilling?

There is no point on debating that. My point is that CO2 is not created out of thin air, and the fact is that there is no concrete evidence that shows CO2 has caused any noticeable warming.

BTW, trees do grow old, and do eventually die. Mankind also has had good effects on some issues regarding the environment. Without controlled fires, more forest will also be lost to forest fires, and not all, nor most forest fires are man-made either.

Anyway, the point is, whether you want to admit it or not, that mankind is here, and this world, and all of it's lifeforms are carbon based.

What the increase in atmospheric CO2 has done is to make at least the northern hemispehere greener than it was 200 years ago, because plant life grow with more CO2.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by Charis
...............
I also wouldn't be too quick about jumping to conclusions that AGW is disproved by the fact that the rest of the solar system is warming up. I haven't seen any hard evidence that the rest of our solar system really is warming up. Last heard, only four planets were experiencing warming, out of eight official planets and hundreds of moons and other bodies. It would be surprising if some planets were NOT experiencing warming or cooling as a result of orbital or seasonal variations. If warming of our entire solar system is occurring, why isn't Venus warming up?

Well first of all many of the Moons that revolve around planets do not have atmospheres thick enough to record any noticeable changes in temperature.

Second of all there are oons with an atmosphere which have been undergoing Climate Change in the form of warming too.

Third of all Venus has been known to have been undergoing constant Climate Change in which it's temperatures has heated and cooled by about 200 degree F over long periods of time.

However the fact that the Sun constitutes 98.99% of all mater in the Solar System, and knowing for a fact that during the late 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century the Sun's overall activity was at it's higher in over 1,000 years, it should be more than clear that the Sun is the main, or one of the main drivers of Climate on Earth, and the entire Solar System.

There are many natural factors that affect the climate on Earth, and if CO2 was really a driver of temperatures then why did the Roman Warm, the Medieval Warm, and the LIA occur without much change in the atmospheric levels of CO2?

Why does the record of Earth's history shows that with much higher concentrations of CO2 on Earth's past has it been cooler sometimes, and sometimes warmer?

Of course its not real! If it was we would have to admit it!
We sure dont want to do that. Easier to just say nope not real!
We are too selfish to ever change our greedy ways anyway.
Ever hear of a snowball effect? Already rolling.....
Whatzit matter, gimme another donut.

survivalacres.com...
survivalacres.com...
www.joebageant.com...



[edit on 9-4-2009 by dodadoom]

The earth has been experiencing a slow warming ever since the 12th Century, sometimes faster than others. It might have stopped today, though, and is on its way back down. Have to wait and see. No sense going crazy with a lot of laws.

One large volcanic eruption spews many more times carbon pollution and green house gasses into the atmosphere than man ever thought of. Global Warming (which was changed into ‘Climate Change’ once global warming became an obvious joke and over 600 scientist signed a paper on how stupid the concept was) is nothing more than an attempt to redistribute the wealth of the world evenly by the NWO through the carbon tax of ‘cap and trade’; factories will flee nations with the carbon tax to less developed nations that do not.

Here is what I think about Global Warming:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


[edit on 4/9/2009 by SGTChas]

Look,

I think a better question to ask would be "Do You Believe The Carbon Credit Scam Will Do A Damned Thing About CO2"

You know, I have seen data after data after data... known BS computer models, BS scare tactics, Sweltering heat that never happened, Nasa's Hansen caught lying twice. Scientist falsifying data to support GW. Changing the name to "climate change" when it was discovered that GW stopped in 1998 in order to "cover all the bases" in case the earth cooled. New articles saying C02 may "CAUSE AN ICEAGE" now.... just in case temperatures drop.

OK, I don't know if CO2 does a damned thing or not. What I do know is that there is a "Carbon Credit Scam" that Government, Financial Traders & Speculators, and the UN WANT BADLY!

Money, Power, Money, Power.... and WE pay for it and it DOES NOTHING to lower CO2 and that is fact!

To much to type, I will link all my previous data on the subject.

CARBON CREDITS is a SCAM!

But you have to get people to "buy" the problem an "Believe" were all going to die before they can tax us into oblivion while we have dumb azz smiles on our faces because "we are saving the earth"

Reminds me of Idiocracy.... it's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes! duh duh duh

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry, just a few recent... to many past the 250 post mark to go find.




[edit on 9-4-2009 by infolurker]

For the most part, those of you who have commented that you DO believe in global warming and that it is not man made. The argument of it being a money making scam is not as great as I had expected, given some threads I have seen where the subject arises and it seemed to me that most members rejected the idea and say it is a scam. I am glad to see that the majority of reponses are that it is real, because I hate to think that it is the majority who would not participate in corrective measures due to a lack of belief in the events climate change will present us.

Well, this is one thing where I think if there is a conspiracy, it probably runs in the opposite direction.

Do I believe the Earth is currently warming?

Yes, there is solid evidence that the Earth is in an overall trend up in temperature. The only way to conspire for this data is to allow for a complete World Order which runs nearly every aspect of essentially every country.

Are humans responsible?

The anthropogentic cause does have very strong correlative evidence in it's favor. Correlative evidence is _not_ solid evidence. CO2 undoubtably has increased through anthropogenic sources, including substantially more output and major decreases in so called carbon sinks. However, water plays a larger role in the greenhouse effect. The science behind these effects also shows many peroids of warming and cooling during periods in which the Earth was not populated or poluting to this extent.

I am in favor of an anthropogenic contribution to the current warming trend but I won't argue any more details. Contribution, not complete cause.