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Does the earth move and rotate on its axis?

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posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by ngchunter
I'm sure weed will agree, but why does it matter?


Weed, do you agree? Do you agree the space shuttle would crash if the earth wasn't turning to give it that extra push?

I only need 75 more characters before this post will let me hit submit. Now.




posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


Salt, little point in responding to you....since you have an extremely odd opinion of how reality exists.

But, if you had read my rather longish post up above, from yesterday, you would have seen that the point of using the rotation of the earth as an 'assist' has a bonus effect in the ever-ongoing compromise of available thrust and payload lift capacity, IF you wish to achieve orbit.

It was actually MORE important for Apollo, and the Saturn V.

There are certain STS missions that launch into a more Northerly orbit, in which case A) they only need to accomplish a certain altitude in orbit and B) the payload weight is not a critical factor.

To put it differently, the weight of the STS at launch is roughly the same, BEFORE payload considerations...the intent of the mission defines the desired orbital track and altitude...THEN the amount of payload to carry can be calculated. The Shuttle is all about compromises (as we have tragically seen twice already...)



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

Originally posted by ngchunter
I'm sure weed will agree, but why does it matter?


Weed, do you agree? Do you agree the space shuttle would crash if the earth wasn't turning to give it that extra push?

I only need 75 more characters before this post will let me hit submit. Now.

Let's look at the recent mission STS-124, which delivered the Kibo lab to the space station. Kibo alone is 32,000 pounds, and that's not accounting for the remote manipulator system they delivered for Kibo or any other supplies they brought. The maximum the shuttle can launch to a minimal polar orbit from Vandenberg (effectively waiving any rotational benefit, something not even possible from KSC) is 29,600 pounds. Were the earth not rotating, STS-124, like most shuttle missions, would crash. All missions, if they were launched with the assumption of a rotating earth, the delta-V they produce at launch would be insufficient to reach orbit.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by ngchunter]



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by chan_chap
 




"I'll try....both vehicles (in your example) start out stationary relative to each other, and relative to the Earth's surface. With me? From the viewpoint of both cars, the earth is 'stationary'.... so the only 'relative' motion at work here is between the two cars. The Earth is essentially 'neutral'."


no both car dont start stationary if the earth is spinning.
u can play the relativity game all u want......
if the earth is spinning both cars would be in the speed of 1674 km/h then 1 car would ADD to that speed by going WITH the rotation and the other car woud go AGAINST that speed.
lol if the earth was really spinning the 2nd car would go backwards!
if the earh is rotating, it should take more energy to go against the rotation than to go with the rotation.
the cars are going in OPPOSITE directions... 1 car with the rotation 1 car against the rotation.


put a toy car on a spinning ball and then talk "relative motion"



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 06:03 AM
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Whats wrong with you people? So all the other suns we can see have planets revolving around them, as we can CLEARLY SEE and PROVE, but not earth - we must be special - the only planet who has its sun revolving around IT!!!!!
AAAAAAAAARRGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by pieinthesky
Whats wrong with you people? So all the other suns we can see have planets revolving around them, as we can CLEARLY SEE and PROVE, but not earth - we must be special - the only planet who has its sun revolving around IT!!!!!
AAAAAAAAARRGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh, so you have problem with the Sun and Jupiter revolving around us? Just look at the Sun! It's barely larger than a quarter dollar. Why would we revolve around that? And Jupiter? You can't even SEE Jupiter without special gear, so that's not even an issue. The Earth, however, is HUGE. I mean, it stretches from horizon to horizon for starters. And they say there's more of it beyond the horizon. (Someday I mean to go look.)




posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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Oh, so you have problem with the Sun and Jupiter revolving around us? Just look at the Sun! It's barely larger than a quarter dollar. Why would we revolve around that? And Jupiter? You can't even SEE Jupiter without special gear, so that's not even an issue. The Earth, however, is HUGE. I mean, it stretches from horizon to horizon for starters. And they say there's more of it beyond the horizon. (Someday I mean to go look.)


Gawdzilla - huh? you mean to say becasue the sun appears small its actually small? Distance has nothing to do with it? I'm not sure if you are serious or joking here? if you are joking.....haha......I think.......



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by chan_chap
put a toy car on a spinning ball and then talk "relative motion"

The gravity of a ball is too miniscule to properly simulate the earth's ratio of gravitation towards and centripetal force away from spinning. Additionally, the car will either have to accelerate to the ball's already spinning angular momentum or will have to gain angular moment and accelerate with the ball (which would be easier if the ball had adequate mass, but no ball on earth would). Neither of those conditions is analogous to a car on earth since we are already matching the angular momentum of the earth - which goes back to why the shuttle's successful launch generally depends on exploiting the rotation of the earth; it already has a west to east angular momentum before it leaves the ground.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by ngchunter]



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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C'mon people, this is basic science. There's no need to even entertain this person. This isn't midevil times here, and if it was, he/she should be wearing a padded helmet so they won't injure themselves through the normal course of the day.

Why, and I mean WHY are these people taken even slightly seriously? "Deny ignorance" is said to be the motto here, but this sort of thing just indulges such people in their ignorance.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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I have a question. Why is it that people launch into insults when something is presented that they don't believe? Why are they so threatened that they have to resort to insults? I will never understand this.

We all went through pretty much the same science classes in school at least at the high school level. We are all privy to the same common knowledge. A flat earther or anyone with a different outlook usually learns and accepts that later in life after some time in the world, not from the beginning and they come to the conclusions they do by observing the world around them. Some don't I'm sure, but most people are rational. What is not rational is the launch into attacks when no one has attacked them.

It's not like we get a choice or a range of theories, we get one government sanctioned curriculum, which is a theory (ie big bang), but because it is a sanctioned theory, it now becomes fact. It is not a fact. To believe in it is no different then a Christian believing in God, or a Muslim believing in Allah, or a child believing in the Easter bunny. It's all the same. If you can't solidify it, it's an idea at best. But wait, you've seen movies and pictures. Again, if YOU can't solidify it, it is an idea at best. I can show pictures of Santa, it doesn't make him any more real then a picture of Earth makes a globe real.

For instance, the first person to respond, launched directly into insults. Why? How does that help anything? Then he is too conceded to offer anything stating, he doesn't need to explain the complexities of....who cares? Why do they even comment? Is it just to ruin someones day? Offer up something intelligent. Offer up a disagreement. Don't offer anything and pass if you don't agree. The only thing insults create are people that don't want to be around you and if you truly cared about people you would bring them up, not step on their face.

I got to the first response and stopped because it mystifies me that an adult thinks in this manner. He knows the complexities of the universe, but zero about people. Perhaps put your books down and start learning the complexities of your fellow man. You might find more people take to your vast knowledge instead of making their stomachs turn with your ego.

Sorry op, I hope to read more later, but it kills it for me when I see people act like that. Usually the rest of the thread is doomed with people like the first responder. It's harder to offer up intelligence. They opt for the easy, because they don't have time, only they had the time to try and make you look stupid...for that I'm embarrassed and sorry.

Peace

[edit on 20-4-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by pieintheskyGawdzilla - huh? you mean to say becasue the sun appears small its actually small? Distance has nothing to do with it? I'm not sure if you are serious or joking here? if you are joking.....haha......I think.......


I was simply restating the geocentric model in it's most absurd form. It really should be called the Me-centric model. Some people think the universe revolves around them.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
We all went through pretty much the same science classes in school at least at the high school level.

Not true, some of us went to private schools or were homeschooled (where legal).


It's not like we get a choice or a range of theories, we get one government sanctioned curriculum, which is a theory (ie big bang), but because it is a sanctioned theory, it now becomes fact.

Not all of us were raised on a government curriculum, see above.


I can show pictures of Santa, it doesn't make him any more real then a picture of Earth makes a globe real.

Anyone can observe things which prove a round, rotating earth. There's no other rational explanation for why satellites appear right where they should, when they should, as predicted by their orbit around a round, rotating earth. If the earth were not spinning, or flat, you would not be able to observe them in their correct locations regardless of where you are located.

I got to the first response and stopped because it mystifies me that an adult thinks in this manner.

It's unfortunate that you have chosen to condemn and then ignore the entire 5 page thread because of the first response. Why pass judgement if you're not even willing to read the thread?

[edit on 20-4-2009 by ngchunter]



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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The Earth might rotate as some sort of conducting metal globe
caught in the Sun's magnetic and current field.
Same with movement around the Sun.
Gravity may have nothing to do with the Earth's movement.

However planet Moons are prevented from rotating by
tidal forces and perhaps the Sun's gravity might slow
down the Earth's rotation.

This would leave the Earth and the Moon without rotation.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
However planet Moons are prevented from rotating by
tidal forces and perhaps the Sun's gravity might slow
down the Earth's rotation.

Tidal locking is not the absence of rotation. The moon rotates, once per month. Tidal locking is the syncing of rotation with the period of orbit. If the earth became tidally locked to the sun (which wouldn't happen because the moon exerts a far greater tidal effect) it would still rotate; once per year. If the earth became tidally locked to the moon it would rotate once per month. Our days are slowing very gradually, but not enough for us to be tidally locked within the lifespan of our sun.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by pieinthesky
 


He is being incredibly funny! I starred that post it was very enjoyable. Yes the earth is just so enormous everything naturally revolves around it within our solar system, or, wait, didn't the OP just limit that to a few celestial bodies?


[edit on 20-4-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 20-4-2009 by mystiq]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by ngchunter
 


I understand some where home schooled, or schooled at a private school, but that really wasn't the point.

I just get frustrated when I see people treat others that way. The Op isn't stupid, they just see it differently. I just don't understand why people behave like that.

Aren't people happy to believe what they believe or know the knowledge they believe to be right without offending others. I hate when religious people try to force stuff on me, but I feel the same about non religious people.

I don't mind people telling me what they believe, I might even be interested, but I don't want it forced down my throat.

People post. People see the titles of the posts. People read the posts. If it is some thing they disagree on there is no reason to ridicule. There shouldn't even be a reason to comment unless it's to help. There is no help in making someone feel stupid because they are searching for something different.

I know there are different circumstances for everyone in their education. I invite them all, I just wish them to be civil is all.

People come to ATS because it is an alternative, not the norm. You will see alternative topics here, so why are people so surprised to the point they have to be demeaning? That's all I was asking. What's the point to the negativity? It helps nothing.

Peace



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

It's unfortunate that you have chosen to condemn and then ignore the entire 5 page thread because of the first response. Why pass judgement if you're not even willing to read the thread?

[edit on 20-4-2009 by ngchunter]


I've condemned no one. I said I would be back to read more, hence me writing, perhaps you missed that taking what I said out of context.

It's alright, It's a staple here. I've come to accept it. People see what they want to see, as you have demonstrated. I'm no different I guess, I just like when we lift each other up much better then the alternative.

Peace



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
I've condemned no one. I said I would be back to read more, hence me writing, perhaps you missed that taking what I said out of context.

You said you hoped to read more, there didn't seem to be any definate promise there, and in any case you felt it prudent to write a condemning post after reading so little. In fact, I expected if anything you would come back to find things to complain about. Indeed, you saw what you wanted to see both in your post and in others'.

You wonder why people get upset at people who promote ingorant and long disproven theories? Because it offends the idea that humans have generally overcome basic scientific ignorance. The question of whether the earth orbits the sun or vice versa isn't something that should be a question any more, there shouldn't be a need for any more debate on such a simple, basic concept. That there is a need for this debate with some people causes people like me to lose any hope that we had for humanity.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by ngchunter]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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I generally do not like being flippant, but that's all this thread deserves. Unless this thread is a JOKE, it and the posts which support the OP's position are a sad reflection of the horrendous consequence of the demise of our educational system from which, at least in the USA, a large percentage of students drop out, graduate with C, D, and F averages, and have no clue about the sciences or fundamental reading, writing, and arithmetic (math for those who don't know).



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


I believe the calculations work either way, by either model.

I posted four experiments in physics that prove the earth is not moving.

Would anybody like to post some of their own experiments in physics that prove otherwise?



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