NEWS: Train Explosion in North Korea; 161 Dead & 1300 Injured

Originally posted by Valhall
liquid propane is bad bad stuff.

It's heavier than air so it settles and collects. But not only that, it soaks into the skin very quickly. So I don't think I need to go into details on what situation that can cause.

All in all, if LP was involved, it's going to be nasty....high compressibility, pressurized containers, add in other fuel - Napalm on rails.

NEED TO CLARIFY THIS: Liquid propane is liquid as long as it is under sufficient pressure. The comments above (including being heavier than air and soaking into the skin and hi compressibility) are referring to the VAPORS once this stuff was everywhere.

[Edited on 4-22-2004 by Valhall]

Exactly.

When liquid propane in a tank is heated from an external fire, the liquid starts to boil, the pressure in the tank rises rapidly, the tank ruptures and you get a Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

Originally posted by titian
HowardRoark, those are some lucky f--kers there. That picture looks familiar -- what incident is it from?

I don't know. I found the picture www.dct.tudelft.nl..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">here.

Cool site.

they'll probably say that is was sabotage done by westerners. that's what they always do in those situations. those damn lying north koreans crack me up! but south korea kicks ass!

Several wise phrases for my reply. Firstly think CIA spies or South Korean spies, then think North Korean presidential assisanation attempt. Why? Well why not? North Korea is one of the three axis's of evil labelled by George Bush, as it has nuclear weapons ready to destroy the united states. If there was a new president eleceted then maybe the nuclear weapons programs would cease. Also if it was the CIA who attempted an assasination on the NK prime minister then they would not care about other casualties e.g. 3000 north koreans, if they can save their own US cities and US civilians from being destroyed by potential nuclear attacks. Nuff Said.

If CIA would like to assasinate Kim they would probably use Predator or Globalhawk with Helfire rockets, it's easier than train crash.

A most suspicious turn of events indeed. Of course, what with the marked lack of information available, ATS is once again the place to find the skinny!

It's all just highly, highly suspicious. KJI comes through the area on his way back from China. Several hours later, a huge explosion occurs at what is reportedly the exact same station. A few thoughts:

Was it really a few hours later? Sure, that's the "official" story...but, as others have noted, if KJI were to be killed I doubt there would be an immediate "glorious leader just got vaped" announcement. If he is toast, I'd say there'd be some pretty serious political upheaval happening. Actually, what we're seeing would fit this scenario pretty closely. Outright denial of the death, followed by a blanket smothered over the entire affair to keep both the NK populace and the rest of the world in the dark while the 'government' tried to figure out what to do without their great pygmy to provide direction.

No word of this from the NK state media. Still. This is no big surprise; even if this was just a legitimate accident they would try to keep it from the NK public. Even considering this though, there seems to be an even greater than expected effort to keep this on the down-low. Cutting the int'l phone service, no legitimate acknowledgement at all. As it stands now, the only concrete word is from provincial Chinese authorities/medical personnel who are bracing for incoming wounded/dead. The satelite recon images do support a major conflagration in the area.

Another point unto itself--does NK even have a medical system? Kinda sad that whatever system they have can't handle a couple thousand people country-wide. (Yes, I know...they're starving, poor, and hopelessly behind the technology curve...)

OK, riddle me this...even if it was a couple of trains carrying petrol (of whatever varieties)...how does it manage to kill three thousand people? What, were they all standing next to the tracks? I don't buy it. Maybe a train carrying a lot of petrol...and a couple of cars' worth of VX, mustard, or other WMD? This would kill a couple thousand 'right off the bat', would certainly qualify for an coverup, and would also explain requests for help from China. (They certainly wouldn't ask it from anyone else!) We know they've got it, it could be a plausible scenario. What I wouldn't give for some radiological or chem/bio analysis data for this area right now.

But of course, I'm sure there are various intel agencies poring over that very data right now.

Terror attack? Doubtful. Al-Q would view NK as an ally. (Man, imagine the fireworks if OBL and the boys were found to be hiding out in NK?!)

Assasination/attempt by China, US spooks, NK reformists, or any other number of people who hate KJI? Possible, but unlikely. Wiping out 3,000 just to get one man would be a bit heavy-handed, even for the US. I certainly agree with the earlier assessment that if it were us, it would have been a far cleaner 'hit'. China, on the other hand...

My analysis points to the cover story of 'train wreck' being basically correct, albeit compounded by something decidedly more horrid, such as WMD involvement. I just don't see the death toll being that high otherwise, as well as the 'iron curtain' they're trying to throw around the whole event.

"One report said a passenger train packed with Chinese travellers was in the station when the accident happened, and another that schools and houses were apparently hit in the blast."
Link

Some recent tidbits in there....apparently Chinese medical facilities were placed on alert & ready to deal with the casualties. Nothing more from Chinese officials about what sort of numbers may have come in yet.
It looks like NK's gonna stay silent on this. It's a shame, because many countries would likely send aid.
*sighs*

-B.

Sky.com

54 dead, 1249 injured.
6350 homes damanged, 12 public buildings destroyed
Apparently caused by ammonium nitrate leaking on one of the trains.

the amonium nitrate was supposedly being transported for mining use.

this "could" be one reason the NK gov are "covering" this up.

although i suspect somthing more sinnister (possibly chem or wmd as others have suggested)

News.com.au

[Edited on 4-23-2004 by ausconspiracies]

What the.....
North Korea finally says something about it.

And blames it on dynamite.
Link

"North Korea's government said the explosion occurred when train cars carrying dynamite touched power lines..."

Okay, that really doesn't sound right...

-B.

Banshee you rock!

Everyone is talking CIA, but is anyone considering China's involvement in this? Could the two being working together on this, independantly or this just a tragic accident. The timing of the accident and the "unofficial visit" seems......suspect.

btw, Korean News website still has not reported this story, this is their latest headline;
Kim Jong Il Pays Unofficial Visit to China

also the red cross has also just reached the scene, that is probably why their are reports now coming out of nk. better to get their side of teh truth out rather tahn the red cross tell an unofficial story.

th bbc carries a nice satellite view of the area
link

The deal with it bein 9 hr. is probably fabricated. It is not liek the NK to say that there almighty leader was close to being assasinated. It is also is fishy they are asking for help. Maybe it was an assasination attempt and they want the UN to look into it when thye send relief. It is also fishy that he hasnt appeared yet on teh public scene. I hope that s true that would be one less situation to worry about. maybe

Originally posted by longbow
If CIA would like to assasinate Kim they would probably use Predator or Globalhawk with Helfire rockets, it's easier than train crash.

NO it is against our policy to assasinate politicians directly that is not the way we operate. Yes a large train explosion doesnt (to me) sound like CIA more like CHina. amd yea reuters is also reporting that it was do to dynamite touching soem kind of electrical component??? Y would they be transporting dynamite out of china. ON the same train there leader was on only a few hours earlier. Remember Kim is crazy bout his security hes a paranoid conspirator like us.

The North Korean government has made an official request for aid in coping with the train explosion. NPR is carrying the story and it is appearing on a number of websites.

ChannelNewsAsia
"A formal request for international assistance in response to the disaster was received by the United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Pyongyang this afternoon from the government," the UN's European office in Geneva said.

South Korea's Red Cross said yesterday it was willing to provide humanitarian aid to North Korea if it asks for such help.
Korea Herald


Digital Chosun

this stinks 1800 homes completely destroyed over 6000 buildings damaged, come on people wake up this was no accident too much damage for mere explosives, the koreans extremely quiet on the subject makes me wonder if this is why cheney visited china recently to smooth the way for a first strike against the n. koreans there is no end to the deceit and treachury that we see in this world this is ongoing and the end will be when we are all dead or starving or interned in the many camps, camps they have built for all the people who will dare to stand up and say no to the big brother masters

This just gets fishier with every update.

It was petrol....

No, wait...it was dynamite...

No, wait...it was ammonium nitrate...

No, wait...it was some other 'mining explosive'...

What's the real story here? Still no appearance from Mr. Kim. Still no official announcement in the NK press. I can only assume they're going to try and hide this from their people. (Big surprise there. )

However, there is the completely unheard-of instance of NK asking for assistance from the rest of the world. (Without trying to blackmail everyone for fuel...)

and now with proof that satelite photo's were fake adds to the "conspiracy" of it all, this makes me more certain/worried that it is/was a WMD or Chem/Bio weapon.

It seems that after the 'dust has settled' a bit on this incident in North Korea, that reports are now coming out mentioning a "military source" is now saying that Syria technicians were involved. Why would Syrian technicians be in North Korea and on the train that exploded?
'Source' Notes Syrian Technicians Killed in Yongch'on Train Explosion Incident

A military source familiar with Korean Peninsula affairs revealed on 6 May that Syrian technicians were killed in a train explosion incident that occurred on 22 April in Yongch'on in the northwestern part of the DPRK and that the damage was especially serious in that section of the train where the Syrians were aboard, along with large equipment.

The same source noted that although the contents of the equipment are unknown, DPRK military-related personnel wearing protective suits arrived on the scene immediately after the explosion and removed debris only from that section of the train where the Syrian group had been aboard.

Consequently, there is a strong likelihood that the accident occurred when military materials were being secretly transported between the DPRK and Syria.

Rather interesting read and one that certainly, if true, raises some questions.



seekerof

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Seekerof]