Should Obama pull out of U. Notre Dame graduation?

Notre Dame has a tradition of inviting newly elected presidents to be the guest speaker at commencement. But this year, the tradition is in danger of being changed because Obama's policies conflict with the school's teachings on life:

content.usatoday.com...

The Notre Dame/Obama brouhaha is still gathering steam. Catholic bishops and other leaders are lining up to argue that the esteemed Catholic university in South Bend, IN., should not be giving an honorary degree and the commencement platform to President Obama on May 17.

They say Obama's actions on abortion, family planning and embryonic stem cell research violate church teachings on life.

They want Notre Dame to make an exception to its tradition of inviting the newly-elected president to be the commencement speaker. George W. Bush spoke in 2001 although his stance in favor of the death penalty conflicted with Catholic Church teachings.

I agree with the dissenters. However, they should have thought of this before they extended the invitation, to avoid the awkwardness that a withdrawal will now bring.

Maybe a solution would be to allow him to speak, but to withdraw the honorary doctorate.

I think the Pope should offer to speak at the commencement Pope Trumps President any day! Problem solved. Obama is almost arrogant enough to bring up his position on abortion and why he is right during his speech.

[edit on 4/7/2009 by Verd_Vhett]

I doubt he will. I'm sure he sees nothing wrong with his being there.

The problem really is with those un-catholic 'catholics' who invited him in the first place. The Church is very clear about these things. A culture-of-deather* should NOT be giving speeches in the Catholic University let alone getting an honorable degree.

* Culture-Of-Death is a term that is used by pro-lifers to describe abortionists and those that support it. Those who support abortion rights refer to those that don't as 'anti-choicers'. Each side has their nickname for the other.

Obama fits the culture-of-death term as used by Catholic institutions and therefore never should have been invited at all.

He'll go. I have no doubt. He'll see it as a victory that the 'culture-of-deathers are making inroads into the pro-life grounds.

Inviting him to speak is one thing but it is total hypocracy to give a beyond pro abortionist an honorary degree. I was shocked to find this out!
I doubt he would miss it for the world and like said here before, I believe he will see it as a great victory; as he should.

I've heard the "they invited George Bush and he supports the death penalty!" line a few times in the course of this current controversy. Just to clear things up the "death penalty" is not forbidden as a moral absolute in Catholic teaching. The Catechism summarises the Church's position as follows:

The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'

CCC 2267

Whether Obama should decide to go or not is up to his conscience and I'm sure his malformed conscience will have no problem with it. Those who issued the invitation on the other hand should be questioning themselves as to the wisdom of their decision. At least it keeps the issue of abortion in the public sphere and allows continuing dialogue until the point when, hopefully, people will wake up and reject the barbarism of abortion.

Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush all spoke at Notre Dame graduation ceremonies and the school has an established tradition of having the current president speak at its commencement.
I see no big story here...it is quite obvious there will be absolutely no talk on abortion or embryonic stem cell research-just finding common ground on which to congratuate the matriculating class.

Apparently, you cannot be a good Catholic without completely, undeniably using every oppurtunity possible to protest anything pro-choice. Many who have grown up Catholic (and have chosen to stay that way) have had it literally shoved down their throats from day one.

If I had been subject to that, I'd probably feel that way as well....


[edit on 7-4-2009 by awake_awoke]

[edit on 7-4-2009 by awake_awoke]

Originally posted by awake_awoke
Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush all spoke at Notre Dame graduation ceremonies and the school has an established tradition of having the current president speak at its commencement.

Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush43 were pro life.
Carter wasn't and should not have been invited.

It doesn't matter if they have 'established a tradition' of inviting the sitting president. The fact is that they are a CATHOLIC University and that comes above all other considerations. They must maintain CATHOLIC rules and traditions otherwise they need to acknowledge that they are no longer a Catholic school.

Here is a link to the commencement speech on Human Rights and Foreign Policy Carter gave in 1977:

teachingamericanhistory.org...

Anyway, I also will think you'll find it interesting who the students voted for:

In a mock election before last year's real election, the Democratic ticket won 52.6 percent of the vote followed by the Republican ticket of Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin, which won 41.1 percent of the vote. A total of 2,692 undergraduates and graduate students voted.

blog.beliefnet.com...
heart-obam.html

You know you don't have to be Catholic to get a degree, honorary or not, from Notre Dame. It is an excellent school and I had many friends who went there; Catholic, Christian, Jewish, and Agnostic.

I can assure you that there are a number of students who share President Obama's view on choice.

But let the kids protest! Thats what college is about....

Am I missing something here?

Notre Dame is a (albeit private, religious) school that happens to reside in the United States of America. President Obama is sitting POTUS. He was invited to speak there, as many former President's have been. He accepted.

And now suddenly a few "Holier than Thous" want to "Un-Invite" him.

How does one un-ring a bell? Who are we supposed to be mad at again?

(Or is this yet another veiled guise for an Anti Obama pile on?)

Fair questions. No?

Regards....KK

EDIT TO ADD:

Pope sends congratulatory message to Obama

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI sent a personal message to President-elect Barack Obama Nov. 5, congratulating him and offering his prayers for Obama and for all the people of the United States.

www.catholicnews.com...
( Please note source. )

The pontiff seems to be righteous with Obama. Or should that be rescinded too?

Regards....KK


[edit on 8-4-2009 by kinda kurious]

I have a question please. Does the pope know po will receive an honorary doctor of laws degree? I can't find it.
I read bishop John M. D'Arcy has issued a statement saying that he won't be attending and why. I also read that Fr. Hugh W. Cleary told po that catholics want to be taken seriously, which is sad because in the same letter, "The Holy Cross Superior General then congratulated the president for being awarded an honorary Doctor of Law degree"!?!
If I was a catholic I would feel very betrayed all over the place.
Course a many catholics these days like abortion but as for me I believe the honorary degree is a slap in the face of the church.


[edit on 8-4-2009 by AmericanDaughter]

[edit on 8-4-2009 by AmericanDaughter]

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
I believe the honorary degree is a slap in the face of the church.

Pretty much.

It's the non-catholic catholics who invited him who should have known better. It is a CATHOLIC school and therefore has more rules to follow then a regular school. If it wants to thumb it's nose at the Catholic Church then it needs to take the words 'Catholic' off it's name.

It's just that simple.

Originally posted by FlyersFan It's the non-catholic catholics who invited him who should have known better.

Is that like a non-bigot bigot? I know a few "Recovering Cathoholics" but not any "Non-Catholic" ones. That is a term I am not familiar with. Someone school me, please.


Back On Topic:
In addition to my original solid rebuttal which has yet to be rebuked, I would like to expand on my staunch rejection of threads like this on ATS. It is Political baiting.

Notice how the simple juxtaposition of just a single word illustrates my point.

Title of OP: Should Obama pull out of U. Notre Dame Graduation?

Intent of Title: Obama should pull out of U. Notre Dame Graduation.

We see this ploy all the time on MSM. "Iran Invasion Imminent?"

It borders on Presupposition. "Do you still beat your wife?"

( It is a tried and true technique, albeit a shallow, tired one.)

It is nothing more than a Neurolinguistic Programming technique seeking to illicit a directed response.

Had the thread title been posed in a variety of other ways, it might have spawned more substantial discussion. (i.e. Thoughts on Obama N.D. speech?, Obama commencement speech invite Pro's Con'?s etc.) rather than inviting an Anti-Obama rant fest.

As I mentioned before in prior post with link, the Pope was congratulatory of President Obama, why not his "flock?" Are they the true "Non Catholic" Catholics?

And, as a reminder, I service what I sell.

Respectfully...KK

[edit on 9-4-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Back On Topic:
In addition to my original solid rebuttal which has yet to be rebuked, I would like to expand on my staunch rejection of threads like this on ATS. It is Political baiting.

Notice how the simple juxtaposition of just a single word illustrates my point.

Title of OP: Should Obama pull out of U. Notre Dame Graduation?

Intent of Title: Obama should pull out of U. Notre Dame Graduation.

We see this ploy all the time on MSM. "Iran Invasion Imminent?"

It borders on Presupposition. "Do you still beat your wife?"

( It is a tried and true technique, albeit a shallow, tired one.)

It is nothing more than a Neurolinguistic Programming technique seeking to illicit a directed response.

Had the thread title been posed in a variety of other ways, it might have spawned more substantial discussion. (i.e. Thoughts on Obama N.D. speech?, Obama commencement speech invite Pro's Con'?s etc.) rather than inviting an Anti-Obama rant fest.

Go complain to USA Today. This was the exact title of the article I cited in the OP.

Unless, of course, you are resorting to your tired old tactics of attacking the members of ATS and not the topic of discussion. Then your tactics are transparent.

As I mentioned before in prior post with link, the Pope was congratulatory of President Obama, why not his "flock?" Are they the true "Non Catholic" Catholics?

The Pope offered the standard congratulations for winning the election press release. Nothing there to suggest that they are bosom buddies all of a sudden.

And, as a reminder, I service what I sell.

It must be a really droll existence, selling and servicing bullcrap.

i've always liked george carlins reframe: " i was a catholic before i reached the age of reason" ever since i heard it, i always get a chuckle.

reply to post by jsobecky


From the quotes of his that you showed ... ( I can't see his posts) ... He's still just trolling.

JSO ... You asked if Obama should pull out of the Notre Dame graduation. It's not really on him. He is just a tool and doesn't know any better. It's the fault of those that invited him .... those who call themselves Catholic but who are Catholic in name only ... those who run the school and who should know better ... it's THEIR fault. They never should have invited him. These non-Catholic Catholics love having the name 'catholic' on the university (it brings in $$ donations), but they don't run it the way the Church says they should.

These people should pick one thing or the other instead of having a foot in both worlds. Are they secular or are they Catholic? You can't have it both ways. The Catholic Church has additional standards to uphold. Since they don't seem able to follow those standards, then they should take the 'catholic' sign off the school.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Go complain to USA Today. This was the exact title of the article I cited in the OP.

Duly noted, my error. Thanks for pointing that out. It was, in fact, quoted directly from the USA Today. My bad. MSM nonetheless.

Unless, of course, you are resorting to your tired old tactics of attacking the members of ATS and not the topic of discussion. Then your tactics are transparent.

I don't feel I attacked anyone. I was simply making my case and stuck to topic. Whether they your were own words or simply you "parroted" them does not diminish the validity of my claim.

The Pope offered the standard congratulations for winning the election press release. Nothing there to suggest that they are bosom buddies all of a sudden.

So are you accusing the Pope of being insincere?
His institution doesn't seem to shy away from controversial stances or topics.

It must be a really droll existence, selling and servicing bullcrap.

Ironic how I am accused of "attacking" other posters when comments like that are tossed my way. Some might confuse vigorous debate (in a discussion forum) as being combative when other's views don't mimic their own. And for some, their "Logic elevator" doesn't seem to reach the high floors.

I suggest for the many who claim to be "faithful" hypocrisy can be a bitter pill to swallow when challenges to their staunch doctrines are made.

Back On Topic:

To answer question in OP...........NO.

Despite this banter, I predict Obama will speak without incident (save a few rogue zealots) and receive a warm reception, honorary degree and then proceed with the daunting task of revitalizing our great country.

If I am proven wrong, that is OK. Failure makes me stronger and wiser.

Your serve..............................................

Without Wax.........KK


[edit on 9-4-2009 by kinda kurious]