You get this when police brutality happens with thousands of eye witnesses.

reply to post by defcon5


Ok, this isn't someone who just killed a person, or robbed a store, it was a fan with a flag running across the field.

The punishment really doesn't fit the crime, think about all the on lookers who have seen this kind of shenanigans time and time again in a game. Then to see how the police start beating on the guy... who is doing more harm, the flag runner or the police here?

Their actions are clearly aggressive and excessive. Now if it was some person who just beat up an elderly woman with her walker and stole her purse, the crowed would have reacted quite differently I assure you.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
The punishment really doesn't fit the crime.

Cops don't make the laws, they enforce them. If the law says that anyone going onto a field during a game is to be arrested, then cops have to arrest that person. If the person escalates that through resistance then it can go all the way up the use of force matrix. Cops don't make policy, they enforce policy. If you think that the laws or government policies are too stringent, then you have as much right to try and change them as the next guy. The guy with the banner should have just laid down, put his hands behind his back and accepted the responsibility that he intentionally broke the law. He got his 5 seconds of fame, and he should have realized it would end with his arrest and gone peacefully.

So you are saying the cops are perfectly justified to jab this fella with a nightstick?

"Oh no everyone, a guy running through a field with a flag!! Lets break his ribs before he causes someone to have a chuckle."

Give me a break, what those officers did was clearly WRONG. Make all the excuses you want, buy they clearly lack self control which makes me very nervous.

Originally posted by OrganizedChaos
Reply to defcon5

Sorry, but I am trained in defensive tactics,

Defcon5 is talking about offensive tactics, not defensive tactics. If you don't know the difference maybeyou sholud reserve judgement.

I would imagine these police officers are sick and tired of all the deadly riots that occur at these soccer matches, which are started by unruly fans such as the guy with the sign.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by craig732]

Originally posted by defcon5
IF the guy was subdued and they had his hands in a compliant position to be cuffed, then why does his hand show up between the cops legs at 00:21 into the video?

if the cop doing the punching was using reasonable force then why did the bald cop stop him punching at 00.22.

i know you like to believe that the cops are always right but the bald cop thought this thug was going overboard and so did the player that initially stepped in, they were both there and i will defer to their judgment, thanks for the apologists point of view though.

reply to post by defcon5


And what if they didnt handcuff him yet, it does not give them the right to beat up the man, he is already pacified and under control by the cops. This is a cop who is a disgrace to his work and to his fellow workers in the police department.

I do not condone violence at all, but its common sense that when your fellow human is under an attack like this which i will call senseless violence, we as human have a commitment to step up against such violence and stop it.

A Roman senator once said: Lets make our people wear a mark on the arm so we can see who we should not socialize amongst, but another senator said: No lets not do it, then they will find out how many they are.

The above little history is a sign of what happen on that stadium, the oppressor got what they deserved for punishing a man like they did where he´s only crime was he ran into the soccerfield proberly to show which team he supports.

Best regards.

Loke.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Loke.]

Not so tough when it's more than 4 cops on 1 guy. Guess police need to find new methods of peacefully subduing people when there's 10,000 onlookers, making sure the cops act appropriately.

What happens when they are excessive, and beat a man when he's down? They get what they deserve, that's what happens.

Good for these people, standing up to police brutality.

Its everywhere.

Some people think that they are high and mighty. They let their position get to their heads. Its really just a way for them to cope with how pathetic they are.

Cops do this all the time, as well as forum moderators at other sites. lol

Overzealous fools, the lot of them...

Agreed.. this is way over the top from the cops.

Apart from anything you don't have to punch a person who is already down to get their hands in cuffs, pressure points as an excuse doesn't fly... it's not needed... and if there are 3 or 4 cops how strong do you think one arm is when it's behind your back? regardless of state of mind.

reply to post by Blundo


What the cops did was EXCESSIVE. This is obvious.

When the fans got the cops off the guy, they should have stopped there. They became the thing they hated when they continued to attack the police.

All they had to do was push the cops off and stand between the guy and the cops and that would have been enough.

I see it like this.

If you do something to make the cops chase you and you run away, if they catch you they will be pissed and possibly use excessive force. Not that it's right but that's just the way it is.

In this case I see the cop jab him a few times and like someone else said, we can't really see exactly what's happening in the pile. It didn't appear too serious, however, people have grown sick and tired of seeing others get a beat down from cops who let their authority go to their heads.

These officers, while maybe not entirely innocent, got what they did largely because of actions of other police who have been overstepping their authority.

People see cops get away with crimes, brutality and corruption. They know writing letters, calling phone numbers and protesting have become largely pointless activities. They are sick and tired of being treated like crap, like 'subjects'.

This type of thing will only increase. As people become more and more fed up with their governments and their increasing stranglehold on us, those governments will use the police as a buffer between themselves and the citizenry. Unnecessary arrests and brutality will occur resulting in more retaliation by people as in the above video.

It may be sad, but the bottom line is you have to check the mind in order to check the body and fear is the primary means of checking the mind. The only reason 4 cops can't subdue a guy without hitting him is a sadistic nature. If the crowd doesn't react and doesn't react aggressively the cops will feel increasingly justified in being cruel and as cruel as they like when the opportunity arises. Yes, the alternative is to subdue the cops and chastise them and lecture them on proper behavior. IE to shame them and correct them. But that takes leadership within the crowd to manage the crowd and give them a proper goal. Under these circumstances it's a crap shoot whether such leadership shows up and it didn't.

Since most of what's happening, so far in the world, is happening with the mind through rationals and lies, it's possible the minds of the NWO perpetration will come to their senses and realize how much their own minds are lying to them. However, as they seem to be desperately accelerating their attack via the G20, there is a real likelihood of greater and greater violence in the future. The question is what side will you be on? You don't wash clothes by yelling "clean" at them. If aggression is necessary, there is a time to accept that fact and support those "patriots" trying to define humanity against inhumanity, even if they are using force against force or against degeneracy coming in the form of lies and laws. Because NWO violence isn't overt doesn't mean the violence isn't covert. In the form of unemployment, starvation, etc..

Force is necessary to wash your cloths and take out the trash and if force is necessary to overcome brutality coming from the NWO so be it. And, yes, there may also come a time later to denounce such force used against the NWO sometime after their surrender.

However, there is another issue and that is who is the focus of the force? To be aggressive with the servant when the master is at fault on perpetuates the master. Choosing targets wisely is critical to the correct use of force.

Originally posted by defcon5
I really would like to know why everyone here seems to think that once the cops have a person pinned to the ground they still cannot be struggling and resisting arrest?

Just imagine if no one was watching. Yep of course they where not doing anything over the top.

reply to post by OrganizedChaos

"Oh Yeah, 4 large trained officers against 1 guy with a sign. Those poor poor officers probably needed 4 more to properly subdue him huh?"


Really? I suppose you know about that huh? It's not that easy to subdue someone even when their down. Where I work, it take at least six Officers for a cell extraction: 1 for the head, 2 for the arms, 2 for the legs, and 1 to cuff him. So with just for Officers to subdue one person you run a big risk of injuring the officers.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


What do you mean, 'The cops had no right to keep hitting him'? They had no right to hit him in the first place! He was peaceful protester (I didn't see what was written on his banner)! I would question his wisdom in making his protest in such a way as to disrupt a football match! But all levity aside, the reactions of the ground staff, footballers and fans, were the natural reactions always seen when a group of people together witness an injustice perpetrated by those trusted and employed to maintain and uphold justice.

reply to post by TheMythLives


This could have ended as a bit of comedy relief if the cops were not so pig headed. LOOK, all the cops had to do was catch up to the guy and escort him away while waving to the crowd.

They did not have to tackle him, take him down, kneel on him with the weight of 4 men, and punch him repeatedly. Those cops got the wakeup call they deserved.

If this bother you, you will vomit when you see this. I know I did.

WARNING: This video is extremely explicit and may be disturbing for some viewers. Contains footage of murder.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by defcon5
Because he is resisting, pulling his hands away from the cuffs.
The cop is hitting him in the bicep to gain control of his arm.

If they simply escorted him off the field he would not have been struggling. When you are face down with 4 men an your back and you cannot breath, you instinctively begin to struggle. The police should be trained and aware of this fact. They should be trained to calm the person not make it worse.

There was no reason to take the guy to the ground in the first place. The cops got what they deserved. End of Story pal.

[edit on 6/4/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by defcon5
I really would like to know why everyone here seems to think that once the cops have a person pinned to the ground they still cannot be struggling and resisting arrest?

I'm sure he was struggling but there were four big cops pinning the guy to the ground. He wasn't going anywhere regardless if a hand was flitting about a bit.

This is a clear case of police brutality. Period.

Now that doesn't give the fans the right to stomp on the cops once they got them off the guy.

The police have a responsibility to PROTECT and SERVE not BEAT and ASSAULT.

I've noticed that the police are getting worse and worse over the years and people are in response, disobeying more and more.

I have a VERY MINOR example of a cop being a jerk.
I was in my truck in a NON FIRE LANE and had the engine running while a buddy ran into a shop to check our P.O. Box. It was perfectly legal for me to be there.
In any case, a cop comes up from behind my truck with his hand on his gun and a really pissed off look on his face.
He asks what I'm doing there and I explained why I was there, all the while, not understanding why he was so upset.
He then said, "can't you read that sign right in front of you? Are you illiterate?
My response was, "the sign says no roller blading, roller skating or skateboarding". I asked what was wrong and he said my truck was there illegally. I explained that it wasn't a fire lane and there were no, NO PARKING signs so again, I asked him why I was there illegally. He wouldn't answer me and told me to move.
I said, I'm sorry I must have missed the sign, and asked where it was so I didn't make the same mistake again. I was being serious because the cop was very pissed so I kinda assumed I F'ed up somehow.
The reality is that the cop didn't read the sign and thought it said no parking.
The cop called me lazy for not parking and walked away pissed.
Now because of what happened, I'm am less likely to respect an officer in the future. He put a bad taste in my mouth for all officers.
All he had to do was just say something like, "sorry about that, I thought the sign said something else" and he could have walked away and we'd both have a nice day and I would have thought that he made a mistake but apologized like any other human would do and thus would give me MORE respect for him and the police in general.
That got me to thinking that if he couldn't admit such a minor mistake, what would happen if he made a mistake maybe misidentifying a suspect ????

The long and short of it is that each officer represents all police when they take action and interact with the community. If that interaction is overwhelmingly negative, they are ultimately only doing themselves a disservice in the long run.

Originally posted by jfj123
The cop called me lazy for not parking and walked away pissed.
Now because of what happened, I'm am less likely to respect an officer in the future. He put a bad taste in my mouth for all officers.
All he had to do was just say something like, "sorry about that, I thought the sign said something else" and he could have walked away and we'd both have a nice day and I would have thought that he made a mistake but apologized like any other human would do and thus would give me MORE respect for him and the police in general.
That got me to thinking that if he couldn't admit such a minor mistake, what would happen if he made a mistake maybe misidentifying a suspect ????

The long and short of it is that each officer represents all police when they take action and interact with the community. If that interaction is overwhelmingly negative, they are ultimately only doing themselves a disservice in the long run.

The reason the cop was upset was that you took his parking spot.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.