Are Ouija Boards Evil?

reply to post by wonderworld

I have suggestion which you may wish to consider. Please understand than I do not want to undermine the beliefs of you or anyone else. But, sometimes there are things in being which can help the individual to consider an aspect which exists alongside the normal, and can be of considerable interest.

Many years ago I read a slim book which I found amazing and which opened my eyes considerably; so I thought you may like the chance to read it, especially as it is now freely available on the web.

The book is: LIFE AFTER DEATH IN THE WORLDS UNSEEN, by Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson - Channeled through Anthony Borgia. The script was communicated by Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson, a roman Catholic Priest, and a son of Edward White Benson, former Archbishop of Canterbury, after his death in 1914 to his old friend, Anthony Borgia.

www.thenewearth.org...

Now what is worth mentioning is that Benson & Borgia were friends while they were still alive; Benson wrote some books, which after he died, he wished he’d never written; and so this work was an attempt to make amends. As Son of an Archbishop of Canterbury in the bosom of the Christian Religion in England, the account is all the more remarkable, and still one of the best books I have ever read.

The language used in the book is quite old fashioned, as it would have been at the time, but still reads well.

reply to post by Tallsorts


I dont mean to pick apart what you are saying but what does this mean?

Your comment saying ""Benson wrote some books, which after he died, he wished he’d never written""




Man you are hard to keep up with. Do you mean he reincarnated in to someone else who later realized his previous lifes work was a mistake??

reply to post by wonderworld

No, he 'died', and he gives the reader an account of the process of death, from his deceased position as it happened to him, and what happens afterwards when he was in Heaven, and long before any reincarnation would even have been considered.

In my strange English way, I am trying to help you. If you want to read the book, then I think it will expand your view; and if you don't, then it really doesn't matter to me.

Anyway, I've got an episode of The Wire teed up on DVD, and this is my lot for today.


[edit on 16/4/2009 by Tallsorts]

reply to post by The Wave


O.K, then we also agree that the earth, Heaven and Hell are not distant from one another. Just not visible.

It's not so much Biology that creates this but the molecular structures in Chemistry and Physics.

It's more about astrophysics.

The theory of molecular orbitals that will do a much better job of accounting for some places, the universe is structured so that all the trillions of interrelated elements, molecules, etc can be combined in a particular way.

It's the recognition that it is literally impossible for the universe to exist and man to be as he is by chance, without an intelligent designer.

Heaven and Hell also have astrophysics. Not just the universe.

Interesting isnt it?

reply to post by Tallsorts


Enjoy your DVD and thanks for the book link. I dont know if I'll get the chance to read it.

I dont understand how he died went to Heaven, came back and wrote a book about dying though?

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ats_account

 

yes I agree with that Satan has a lot of power in comparison to humans. I wrote that compared to God he is like an insect. But certainly he is not an insect when compared to us humans. Hebrews 2:7 says though that man was made a little lower than angels. Not a lot lower.

But yes I am not a believer in mainstream Christianity. Lot of the things that they teach are not from the Bible but yet they claim to be basing their religion on the Bible.

Since in my opinion the Bible does not support a "life after death" (or the existence of hell) I would not agree with the beliefs of the spiritualist Christians either.

But you are right that Satan does not have a lot of time left. He and the demons with him know that.

So what will come after they are gone? That is what mankind should try to find out as it affects us all.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by ats_account]

reply to post by wonderworld



Hi,

"It's not so much Biology that creates this but the molecular structures in Chemistry and Physics."

My point was that it is the biology of humans that limits our perception.

"It's more about astrophysics."

And cosmology.

"The theory of molecular orbitals that will do a much better job of accounting for some places, the universe is structured so that all the trillions of interrelated elements, molecules, etc can be combined in a particular way."

Or particles may be combined in trillions of different ways?

"It's the recognition that it is literally impossible for the universe to exist and man to be as he is by chance, without an intelligent designer."

Unfortunately, here we differ... :-)

"Heaven and Hell also have astrophysics. Not just the universe."

Which takes a frame dependent background - time and space are fixed? Prefer a frame independent background approach in which heaven and hell are a part of the universe.

Peace!

reply to post by ats_account


Well I personally dont think a person is required to follow "Religion" I think it's simply a one on one with God. Only he knows us.

A person can be close to God without attending church. Many sitting there wearing their finest clothes will not be saved. Some simply use it as a social scene.

God did say that every man would know the truth, know right from wrong and know about God.

Many choose to ignor it or totally deny it.

What do you think about afterlife?

reply to post by The Wave


I agree with your comment that ""biology of humans that limits our perception""

We do only use a fraction of our brain but God made it clear we are not to know the everything until the end.

The Bible also mentions paranormal superior non human's that fly in the sky. He calls them.

The ancient deity Baal was "Lord of War" and "Lord of the Sky". Most names were given to Baal by adding endings to his name.

Some examples found in scripture are Baalhazor "Lord of the Fortresses", Baalbamoth - Lord of the high places, Baalzebub - Lord of those who fly, or, flit.

Zebub is a Hebrew verb which means to flit from place to place , having been popularly translated as "Lord of the Flies" it is more properly rendered "Lord of Those Things that Fly".

Do you believe in life on other planets??





I dont believe in aliens but do believe these dudes to be demons. Same thing.

reply to post by wonderworld


Hi Wonderworld,

I certainly believe in life on other planets - but then again, as we have enough life here on earth that we don't care about or understand I'm not sure that looking for more is all that important.

Regarding the bible - I'm sorry but my opinion is that it was constructed by man to rule men.... as are most religions. The universe is beautiful enough.

Peace!

PS My Avatar name is deliberately chosen!

reply to post by The Wave


I dont like to bash the word "Religion" yet I do it constantly. It's just a word that confuses so many people. There are too many religions out there and most are lost on which one is right.

None are truly right. It's actually very simple. Forget the word religion. I believe it is a personal relationship with God. I got angy at one Pastor who said "just because I'm baptizing you it doesnt make you a Methodist" I actually sat him down and gave him a lecture.

I said "I'm not in to being Labeled or branded. I'm doing this for God not you". That ticked me off.

Yes the word religion can be used as a manipulative tool if used wrong. God in not manipulative, does not lie or decieve.

I make God a fun thing to my kids. I dont force it on them or cram it down their throats. God also has a sense of humor, is loving too much to list.

Most are turned off thinking it's a strict narrow path of rules to control. It's not supposed to be that way. I dont use it to control. It doesnt control me. I chose to believe, simple as that.

I can tell my kids not to have sex before they get married but know the odds are slim. God knows the spirit is strong and the flesh is weak.

I think people have their rebellion due to how it was presented to them. Those who do not know or understand wont be thrown in to a firey pit of hell.




Wow that was a mouthfull !!

reply to post by wonderworld


Hi Womderworld,

So much for Ouija boards. :-)

I agree with your philosophy and yes, 'Religio' means 'I believe'. It's when people force thier beliefs (whether politcal, religious, economic...) on others that the problems start.

Meanwhile the universe is to be enjoyed.

Peace!

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ats_account

 

What do you think about afterlife?

Hi wonderworld,

since you are asking, here is my reply...

When a human person dies, he ceases to exist. He does not automatically go to the spirit realm or heaven or hell. The Bible scriptures for this are in my previous postings on this thread if anyone wants to check them.

Gods purpose for mankind was to live on an earth that would be like the place that the first humans were placed in, the garden of Eden. The word "Eden" means pleasure or delight. If you look at how the Bible describes that place, you can see why being exiled from there was also in itself a punishment for Adam and Eve. Keeping this in mind it is clear that it was Gods purpose that humans would enjoy life on earth (enjoy this universe, so to speak).

The current problems faced by mankind were not part (and are not part) of Gods purpose.

Just before God gave Adam and Eve their sentence (after eating from the tree) he spoke to the snake (although what God said was directed to the spirit creature who had used the snake as a mouthpiece). God said that there would be a conflict which would end in the snake being bruised in the head. This was the first ever prophecy written in the Bible.

In effect even though the moment was dark for mankind, God was already then declaring that the situation would end one day. In other words there will be a moment when Satan will no longer exist.

You can see that the Bible many times talks about that Jesus will one day be king. If he will be a king then he will have to have subjects, would you not agree? The question is then whom will he be ruling over - who will these subjects be?

The only hope for dead humans is resurrection. Those who died in the past will be resurrected at a time when Satan and the demons are no longer here.

The problem is that for many people the situation will be like it was for many before the flood. They did not believe that something like the flood would come. The Bible book of 2. Peter, chapter 3 verses 3-6 refers to these kind of people. They in essence say that "no end will come - earth has been here for ages, generation coming and next one going." But Jesus himself said about that people before the flood went about their daily activities like nothing was going to happen (Matthew chapter 24, verses 37-39). He did not say that everyone who died was wicked, but that many simply took no notice.

Jesus also said that he was coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). A thief will not announce in advance to the householder when he will come. Jesus also said that he would come at a time when people would not think of it being the time (Matthew 24:44). In other words, Jesus would come to judge the world at a time when people would not expect. This means that we should not think that he will come when our civilization has deteriorated or collapsed or is in the midst of a 3rd world war.

In this sense the end of this world (actually, civilization) is in effect 'hidden' because there is nothing that shows or indicates to us that something like that would ever happen.

This 'hiddennes' leads to people themselves showing what is in their own hearts. This way when Jesus comes to judge people (as the Bible refers to separating them into sheep and goats), the people who are judged will have shown what kind of persons they are by how they have lived their lives.

It is also true that a persons relationship with God is always that persons relationship with God. There are no eartly lords in Gods organization as can be seen in e.g. Matthew 20:25-28 and Romans 14:4. When Christianity left the original teachings they incorporated many things that had nothing to do with the Bible. For example the aspect of being called a Father: in Matthew chapter 23, verses 9-11 Jesus says that we should not use that or other titles (in a religious sense) on any humans. In 1st Timothy 4:3 Paul writes that in the later times some will "fall away from the faith", paying attention to the teachings of demons, and among them forbidding others to marry. These things are exactly what is being done in some churches where members of the clergy class are referred to as Fathers and are expected to live in celibate (as IF that is some command from God). But these are certainly the only non-Biblical teachings at those places.

Another issue is that it is not difficult for a person to worship God. God does expect certain things (not ritualistic deeds), but these hardly limit the amount of enjoyment that a human can get from life. That God created this planet for enjoyment can be seen in things such as the variety of plant and animal life. God could have created only plant, such as the potato, for mankinds food, expecting everyone to eat that.

The claim that it is more righteous for a human to live like a self-depriving ascetic originates with apostate Christianity.

I am of course not trying to force you or anyone else to believe what I am writing. That is, for the first, not possible as you are your own person and have to draw your own conclusions. For the second I am not even interested about that. This is just to give my point of view about these matters, as this forum allows everyone to bring up their viewpoint.


[edit on 18-4-2009 by ats_account]

reply to post by The Wave


Well I'm still hoping some people have good explanations about the Ouija board.

I do see how religios discussions can branch off of good and evil spirits.

Yes the universe is quite beautiful. I agree.


I think aliens are dark angels performing false miracles. i dont doubt people see these UFO's. According to the Bible there will soon be an increase in frequency of these sigtings.

reply to post by ats_account


O.k but if it's easy to worship God, which I totally agree. Then why dont you believe in heaven and Hell?

I also believe humans are resurrected, after death.

Are you saying the "Garden od Edan" was Heaven and the earth is Hell?

I'm not Catholic so dont know much about the celibacy issue with the monks.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ats_account

 

O.k but if it's easy to worship God, which I totally agree. Then why dont you believe in heaven and Hell?

I also believe humans are resurrected, after death.

Are you saying the "Garden od Edan" was Heaven and the earth is Hell?

I'm not Catholic so dont know much about the celibacy issue with the monks.

Hi wonderworld

I do believe in "heaven", I just do not believe in a hell. "Heaven" is the spirit realm, nothing else.

But God does not torture any creatures in a fiery hell nor in any other place. To claim that he does something like that is in fact an insult against God. Even humans have a sense to dislike such things, and the only reason humans have such a sense is because it was planted in us by God.

In Jeremiah chapter 7, verse 31 God talks about the apostate jews who had built hills to sacrifice their sons and daughters in fire. God said about that that it was something he had not commanded and that had not come up in his heart. Burning humans in fire is not anything that comes from God. It comes from the demons - the very creatures that communicate through the Ouija board.

The Bible says that God is love. Note that it does not say that God is lovable or that love is one of his main qualities. It says that he is love, in the sense that it is his main attribute. On the other hand the Bible does also say that a human will reap what he sows (Galatians 6:7). It would be a mistake for a human to think that, "hey, God is love...great I am sure he will forgive me this or that..."

I am not saying that the Garden of Eden was heaven or that the earth is hell. Neither is correct. The Garden of Eden was a physical location here on Earth before the flood.

In the Catholic church the calling of someone "Father" and the vow of celibacy is not just for the monks but all of the priests as well.

reply to post by ats_account


O.K, let's see if I got this one right. You believe that Heaven is only a spirit realm. Does that mean only the Angles in Heaven are allowed there? That mankind is not included after they die?

God is a loving God but is also one to be feared. He gave a few examples of hell and none of them are good.

Ive found at least 54 References to hell in the Bible. Do you believe in the King James Version of the Bible?

Weird huh? Each time you give me an answer I only have more questions.

Do you mind if I ask what demonination you have learned from. Perhaps it's your own theory??


files.abovetopsecret.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

[edit on 19-4-2009 by wonderworld]

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ats_account

 

O.K, let's see if I got this one right. You believe that Heaven is only a spirit realm. Does that mean only the Angles in Heaven are allowed there? That mankind is not included after they die?

God is a loving God but is also one to be feared. He gave a few examples of hell and none of them are good.

Ive found at least 54 References to hell in the Bible. Do you believe in the King James Version of the Bible?

Weird huh? Each time you give me an answer I only have more questions.

Do you mind if I ask what demonination you have learned from. Perhaps it's your own theory??


files.abovetopsecret.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

[edit on 19-4-2009 by wonderworld]

Yes the version of the Bible does not matter. So to answer your question, I do believe in the King James version.

As to the references to hell, however, the problem with that is that the King James version was the product of its times. It was written hundreds of years ago, when the Churches were powerful and eager to retain that power.

Most of the references to hell are in scriptures which in the original Hebrew referred to "sheol". Sheol is just "grave". So in the original Hebrew these scriptures referred to the grave, not to some place like hell.

Death is, in the Bible, referred to as an enemy (1st Corinthians 15:26, Revelation 20:14) - not some gateway to another form of life.

The reason heaven is not for mankind is because Gods purpose was for mankind to live on earth. That is why mankind never needed an immortal part like a "soul".

Out of interest at this point is to bring out what the Jesus said in Matthew 11:11 about John the Baptizer who had at that point died. Jesus said that among those who will be resurrected will be no one greater than John the Baptizer, but even the least in the Kingdom of Heavens is greater than John the Baptizer. So clearly John, even though a very good man, would not be resurrected in heaven.

In a previous post I had a rhetorical question about the fact that the Bible so often refers to Jesus going to rule as a King. Jesus even taught his disciples to pray for Gods Kingdom to come (Matthew 6:10). If he will rule as a King then he should have subjects. There was a reason for such an arrangement - do you know why Jesus would have to rule as a King?

That Kingdom is not "just something in peoples hearts" like some churches have said. It is Gods means to reinstate the original condition that existed before Adam and Eve sinned.

Revelation chapter 20, verses 3-7 mentions the Christ and an amount of others as ruling for a thousand years. I believe these others are the ones referred to in Revelation 14:1-3 as having been "bought from the earth". So yes I do believe that some humans will go to heaven, not "with the help of" an immortal soul but because God resurrects them there.

God told Adam that he would die, not in order to come to heaven at some point, but as a punishment if he ate from a tree he was not supposed to touch. After he had eaten of that tree, God told him that he was going to become dust again. God did not say to Adam that he was going to burn forever in hell, or go to heaven. In fact, the explanation given to Adam meant clearly that he was going back to the state where he was before he was created. In what God said there was no other future than non-existense, which is in line with the fact that Adam did not have a soul that would have survived the death of his physical body.

In a previous posting I mentioned about Jesus coming to judge humankind. The judgement of those who are at that time deemed wicked is not eternal hellfire, but simply everlasting death (as what happened with Adam).

When Adam sinned, he also lost something valuable - a perfect human life. If he would have stayed sinless, he would have also stayed perfect and had the hope of living forever as a human. As a sinner, however, he was no longer perfect and was thus not able to pass either perfection nor everlasting life to his offspring. This is what the Bible talks about when it says in Romans 5:12 that "through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin".

Death exists among mankind because of Adams sin. And Adam's sin is the reason why Jesus had to come to earth to die in behalf of mankind.

Because Adam sinned, he lost something that he was not able to pass to his offspring - a perfect human life and therefore life without death. So in order for Adam's offspring to be able to have eternal life, someone else had to provide a corresponding ransom in our behalf. The corresponding ransom, which equals that which Adam lost, was paid by Jesus when he died as a perfect man.

If humankind really had an immortal soul and a hope of heavenly life, Jesus would not have had to die in our behalf. The only thing needed would have simply been for us to "live a good life".

[edit on 20-4-2009 by ats_account]

reply to post by ats_account


Well that was more simplistic and we agree on much of it. Youre right about Adam.

One other question. I forgot your answer about the Ouija board. Do you think demonic spirits can communicate or the people using them are nuts?

Perhaps somewhere in the middle?

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ats_account

 

Well that was more simplistic and we agree on much of it. Youre right about Adam.

One other question. I forgot your answer about the Ouija board. Do you think demonic spirits can communicate or the people using them are nuts?

Perhaps somewhere in the middle?

I do believe the people who say for example that "no one touched the pointer but it was moving on its own". In my opinion what happens is not just psychological (actually claiming that some sort of a psychological effect is in play is a stupid attempt of an alternative explanation). And yes I do believe what you have told about your experiences. They fit the pattern, so to speak, of what I have come to know elsewhere.

But I do also believe that demons can drive people to insanity and suicide. For example in some cases by causing people to hear "voices". Some of these cases are misdiagnosed because the current medical profession does not accept the notion of 'invisible spirit creatures'. In some sense it is odd because scientists nowadays accept the existence of so many other things on a purely theoretical basis (such as subatomic particles). In any case, as a consequence I do think (this could be wrong but do not believe so) that demon harrasment is sometimes diagnosed as schizophrenia and possession as a "multiple personality" disorder.

For example there was the case recorded in the Bible of a man who was possessed by multiple demons (Mark 5:1-13). The description given in the Bible about the man has the characteristics of superhuman strength and psychologically distorted behaviour. At one point the demons asked Jesus if he would permit them to enter a herd of swine nearby, after which the swine rushed over a precipice and drowned in the sea. There were clearly no healthy, positive effects on the swine from these creatures.

Did the demons care about the possessed man or the swine - absolutely not. Rather it seems that they get some sort of enjoyment from taking over bodies of fleshly creatures.

Those "entities" are nothing to entertain oneself with. They are murderous, cruel, and desperate.

Often people turn to them in search of information about either the afterlife or the future, but answers about both can be found by turning to God (in prayer) and his word the Bible.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by ats_account]