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Report: North Korea Rocket Launch Failed.

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posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


I'm not dodging any issue.

The fact of the matter is that NK is a brutal monolithic dictatorships whose day has past and it needs to go. That's the real issue!

Stay focused.

The US is not starving it's own people.
Yes we have issues nobody is hiding from that fact.




posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



I'm not dodging any issue.

The fact of the matter is that NK is a brutal monolithic dictatorships whose day has past and it needs to go. That's the real issue!


No need to become a monster in order to vanquish one.

Don't tell me to "stay focused", you're the one bringing up the inane rantings about human rights violations whenever you can't come up with an answer as to how America has the justification to tell other countries what kinds of missiles or satellites it can develop and deploy.

"So which treaty did N. Korea violate by launching a satellite into space?"

"Help! Help! They're being oppressed!"


The REAL ISSUE here is that the threat of N. Korea to the International Community is being exaggerated once more.

Irregardless of Kim Jong Il's brutal repressive tactics, that gives the US no right to start acting like a global dictator and demanding other countries obey its policies.

[edit on 5/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


I appreciate what you have to share.
I really do.

This isn't a case of what the US wants, it's really an issue of what should be done about N Korea. Remember it's a serious issue that has been dragging on for over 58+ years. It's a dinosaur problem left over from the cold war.

It's a major pain to the Japanese and the South Koreans, we are their allies and they are the ones who have a real problem. Heck even the Chinese don't care for little Kimmy anymore.

The Satellite was launched and it flew no obstructions from either the US or Japan so that should demonstrate the level of tolerance & Restraint the west is showing towards little Kimmy and his band of Merry men.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Raider of Truth
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
 



i don't see what the big problem is every nation on this planet has the right to go into space as the human race's destiny lies solely in Space



You don't have a problem with a rogue nation with insane leaders having nukes and long range capability? Interesting point of view. You are up to speed on North Korea or are you?

I don't think anybody is siding will these nuts. They spend all their money on military and let their people starve to death. Huge numbers of North Koreans have starved.

The citizens are cut off from the outside world and most are unaware free countries even exist on the planet. They have no access to information and live in poverty we could not imagine under their Dictator who is know to be insane.

There is video that has been smuggled out of tiny children of Kindergarten age practicing with automatic weapons on targets of Americans.

Their land is completely denuded and will no longer support crops to feed people. They live in an armpit of suffering and disease while their leaders and military live in luxury.

Under these circumstance even a dollar spent on weapons they don't need because nobody is trying to invade them is a sin that is unimaginable. We are talking hundreds of thousands starving.

Their main income is derived from black market weapons sold to terrorist states which is then used to produce more weapons. They have no problem selling WMD to a Terrorist.

If ever their were a country that should not have these weapons it is NK. I you think their interest is in space
They are developing long range missiles to attach to the nukes they already have and sell them to Terrorists. Why should the world allow that?

Their citizens won't revolt because they don't even know the outside world contains free nations. Only the leaders, educated at the best school are aware of the world and they are monsters and mad men.

[edit on 4/5/2009 by Blaine91555]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


Slayer69 is right, the west did not stop the missile. Now, if you are saying then that the U.S. can not tell them what to do then what gives you the right to tell the U.S. what it can or can't do?

NK did in fact break international law by ignoring the United Nations. Secondly, EVERY country has complete unabridged control of their aerospace by longstanding international/common law. So in fact they did break international law and treaty.

I have a HAM unit in my lab and when I get back from spring break if there is still a question of if a satellite is in orbit I will gladly listen for it.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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North Korea's thinly disguised missile test violates U.N. resolutions and should be condemned. But it is not a serious threat to the United States, nor does it justify a crash program to deploy an expensive, unproven anti-missile system.

North Korea's missile and nuclear capabilities do not add up to a nuclear Intercontinental Ballistic Missile, or ICBM. This third failure to create such a missile in as many attempts since 1998 likely represents the upper limits of what the country can do by stretching and adapting the Scud technology it acquired from the former Soviet Union.

This small, impoverished nation would need to make three key additional breakthroughs to turn this launch vehicle into a real nuclear-armed missile capable of reaching the continental United States.

First, North Korea has to develop a bigger, longer-range missile. MIT scientist Ted Postol calculates that the failed satellite appeared to weigh 150 to 200 kilograms (330 to 440 pounds) and was intended for a low-Earth orbit about 550 kilometers (340 miles) high. It is puny by world standards

By comparison, this Friday a U.S. Air Force Atlas 5 rocket on a routine launch sent a 5,800-kilogram(12,790-pound) satellite into a geostationary orbit roughly 36,000 kilometers (22,370 miles) above the Earth.

Size matters. A typical first-generation nuclear warhead weighs about 1,000 kilograms. To threaten California or New York, North Korea needs a much bigger missile that can carry more weight over a longer distance.

Second, North Korea would have to miniaturize its warhead. The primitive nuclear device tested by North Korea in 2006 is estimated to weigh more than 1,500 kilograms (3,307 pounds). That means North Korea's current nuclear weapons are simply too heavy to be launched by a vehicle similar to the one tested Sunday.

Retired Gen. Eugene Habiger, former head of U.S. Strategic Command, has said, "The miniaturization of a nuclear warhead is probably the most significant challenge that any proliferant would have to face." Habiger reminds us that it took the U.S. six to eight years of intensive engineering and testing to get our warheads down to 1000 kilograms (2,205).

Third, North Korea would have to develop a re-entry vehicle for its warheads. A warhead returning through the atmosphere to its target must survive extreme conditions. Developing the technology required for this survivability is no small task. It is one thing to test a nuclear weapon in carefully controlled conditions. It is another to build one that can survive the fierce vibrations, G-forces and high temperatures of launch and re-entry into the atmosphere.

These are three huge engineering feats and help explain why, as Congressional Research Service expert Steven Hildreth told Congress in 2008, "only five countries [the United States, Soviet Union, China, Britain and France] have demonstrated the ability to develop, test and field ICBMs armed with nuclear warheads."

North Korea simply does not have the technical background or institutional capacity to achieve these three breakthroughs anytime soon. Attempting to do so will require years of highly observable flight and explosive tests.

It is time to put aside the hype and bring this launch into perspective. North Korea has significant ballistic short-range missile capabilities, perhaps a few crude nuclear weapons, but no demonstrated ability yet to combine the two. The threat from North Korea remains essentially the same as it has been for the last three years. So what to do?

Korean expert Leon Sigal said, "The only way to get Pyongyang to stop is to resume negotiations." This is exactly what happened after the failed North Korean missile test in 1998 and the failed test in 2006. In both cases, Presidents Clinton and Bush let the bravado and bluster from the North Koreans die down, and within weeks coaxed them back to negotiations that suspended the programs for years.

Recall that North Korea's biggest nuclear advances came from 2001 to 2006 after the Bush administration scuttled the 1994 Agreed Framework and attempted to coerce North Korea into surrender or collapse. Instead, Kim Jong Il restarted his programs, tested more missiles and their first nuclear explosion.

North Korea's bluster also failed to overshadow President Obama's breakthrough declaration in Prague, Czech Republic, for global nuclear disarmament.

Obama's speech provides the direction needed now. The U.S should rally the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to condemn this test, then move forward through direct talks and the six-party process to the irreversible dismantlement of the Korean nuclear program as part of the global effort Obama detailed in his Sunday speech.

Pulling North Korea from the nuclear brink will be a difficult diplomatic process, but panic does not have a place at the table.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by GTORick
 


Yes NK did break international law by ignoring the UN. And yes this should be punished. But what about the US? They have ignored the UN, yet no sanctions, not even talks or a thought of punishing the US. Why the double standard?

NK only screws their own people the US screws the entire world.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


The real question is why are you supporting a brutal Dictator? Why do you support the starvation of hundreds of thousand and the destruction of the environment.

NK is not a real country. It is people held hostage by a group of criminals. Would you be OK with sending a load of automatic weapons to a maximum security prison. Same thing.

NK sells weapons to Terrorists who are mass murderers. Do you support that? If so, why?

What is your solution to controlling rogue states controlled by madmen who's citizens are nothing more than abused slaves to the state? How would you personally control that? Remember they are not even in danger of invasion.

If you believe this is about a satellite
It is about long range missiles to sell to Terrorists to line their evil pockets while the citizens starve to death.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Did you see gingrich say that america should use em weapons on north korea, to take out the missile etc....

I told you earlier in this thread they where using them, and he confirmed it.

Japan and usa are supposed to have very advanced weapons in this area.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by Raider of Truth
 


Which could have been simply all a stunt by the north koreans... Honestly though, who knows...



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by DrChuck
 


What about all the crime and corruption inside the UN. You trust a Body that puts Terrorist States on its Human Rights Council? Give no bid contract to its leaders relatives? Never follows through on its resolutions? Hires child molesters to work with children?

The only thing that matters about the UN is it should be dissolved. It's an organized crime mob.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by xbranscombex
North Korea's thinly disguised missile test violates U.N. resolutions and should be condemned. But it is not a serious threat to the United States, nor does it justify a crash program to deploy an expensive, unproven anti-missile system.


Crash program? The Aegis ABM that was deployed has had at least 22 tests and was successful in 20 of them. It's been real world deployed on over 30 ships to date. It's an upgrade to a proven radar system (SPY-1) that allows them to track ballistic missiles, and adds a third stage and different warhead to a proven missile (SM-2) and converts it to the SM-3.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen


It failed?
How could that be?



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


You ever wonder why our country is so hated and despised by EVERY other country in the world?
(Yes I am American, which is why I am so critical of the US)

Don't say they hate us for our freedom, that is a bunch of bulls**t used by "patriots" when they can't find a justified answer fast enough in their little brains during an argument.

They hate us because our foreign policy is - Do as I want or else I'm gonna come and kick your ass. And if anyone condemns me or does not support me I'm gonna ridicule and call you a terrorist.

Our countries foreign policy is nothing more than bullying, getting what we want when we want it, with no regards to the related country. Lies are transplanted into our citizens so a unjustified war can happen, propaganda at its best, even NK can't top the US in propaganda.

We condemn others while we do the same things but ten times worse. You say the brutal NK dictator is starving his people, I say the US is intentionally destroying and murdering millions in the name of "freedom" or oil or whatever bulls**t we always come up with.

Watching the US take a peaceful satellite launch and turning it into a witch hunt comes with no surprises. I see Iraq all over again, this time it isn't WMD's its a freakin satellite.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 




The real question is why are you supporting a brutal Dictator? Why do you support the starvation of hundreds of thousand and the destruction of the environment.

How do you go from condemning a witch hunt with a hidden agenda to supporting negligent genocide and supporting a brutal dictator? I don't see any posts with the Godfather supporting Kim, only condemning the US. Two different things.


NK is not a real country. It is people held hostage by a group of criminals. Would you be OK with sending a load of automatic weapons to a maximum security prison. Same thing.

NK is a real country, unlike the US education system which is not a real education. You've just proven that.



NK sells weapons to Terrorists who are mass murderers. Do you support that? If so, why?

Another typical American apologist retort. The US has been selling weapons to the "terrorists" since the late 1970's. Oliver North anyone?


What is your solution to controlling rogue states controlled by madmen who's citizens are nothing more than abused slaves to the state? How would you personally control that? Remember they are not even in danger of invasion.

Well I would surely not start by exaggerating a satellite launch. But a question for you - How would you deal with a imperialistic government that invades any country at its whim?



If you believe this is about a satellite
It is about long range missiles to sell to Terrorists to line their evil pockets while the citizens starve to death.

Yes of course its about long range missiles to sell to terrorists
, because any country who doesn't listen to the US must be evil
, and therefore must be terrorists. Right?

[edit on 5-4-2009 by DrChuck]

[edit on 5-4-2009 by DrChuck]

[edit on 5-4-2009 by DrChuck]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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All governments are evil. There, I said it. However, NK is the last place I would like to live. I have been around the world and have lived long-term in several countries and have been under many types of governments. Is the U.S. my favorite? Of course not. The country with my favorite type of government would be a mix of the government for the country that starts with a "P" and ends in an "A" and that of the U.S. And actually, Japan is really not all that bad, either. I can buy a book on any subject there. No matter who it offends.

There is one thing that I know is true about NK. They do not feed all of their people enough. Everything else that goes around about them, I am not 100% certain of. I am 100% certain they do not feed all of their people.

Do you really think China likes NK? It has served it's purpose as a "buffer zone" to them and probably has little value to them now.

So, this rocket. Did it fail or get shot down? Or did the satelite get to orbit, as has been reported in some places?



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Maybe we would know what really happened, had they shown us images or video of it taking off, in the first place.

Just mere Speculations of the event. Amazing in this day in age.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


do you ever consider that the devils triangle(london,washington dc., and vatican city) are doing the same thing to it's citizens and the people of the rest of the so called free world. nk ills towards it's people are miniscule compared to the devils triangle's.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by bluewaterservant]



posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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First of all, Korea has been divided since about 1950. Legally they have been at war since then, but only signed basically a 'ceasefire'. Now that's over with... This war is not about human rights, never was, and never will be. In the 1940's - 1960's North Korea had exellent living standards; that didn't end, stop, prevent, ANY war. And given PTB continually RAPE the 3rd world by lending them money at 30% interest rates, bribe the leaders to not pay it back, buy up the national recources when they default, and then enslave the 3rd world into paying back money PTB never had; tells us that was never about human rights.

So why after 50 years is Korea divided, the was continuing? The Cold War is over; thus any communism excuse does not hold any water. Perhaps it is because North Korea is such a mess, without enough food, indoctrinated people, that the United States, Korea, and Japan WANT the war to continue? Maybe they don't want North Koreas problems dumped on them. Perhaps, the human rights issue is only used by the media (for the masses) as an hypocritical excuse to isolate, and surround, North Korea; so we don't have to help them (much). Just give them tiny bits of aid to keep the country barely afloat which also helps the hypocritical excuse.

PTB (see Bilderberg, Trilateral commision) are largely funded by the MIC, themselves often owned by banks. Do they want a war to stop? Here's a better question, do they want to earn less money? Do they want to loose influence? Do they want to loose POWER? Given the same people seem to finance the worst world domination dictators (like... Hitler, George Bush, Obama), I highly doubt they want to loose power. (And this once again throws human rights garbage out of the water).

However, to PTB credit, North Korea is at war with Japan and South Korea; the war never ended. So while it does set a bad precedent shooting down nations satellites, it also sets a bad precedent _TESTING_ NUCLEAR MISSILES by firing them OVER countries that you are at WAR with. So, now here we are.

Are they trying and provoke North Korea as much as possible without instigating a war so Korea will not be united; so their problems are not dumped on us, PTB can rake in massive war profits, we can be distracted from the real issues, so PTB / MIC can get even more power? Those I think are the real reasons behind this, and believe me, this has nothing to do with anti-communism, or human rights.


North Korea's thinly disguised missile test violates U.N. resolutions and should be condemned. But it is not a serious threat to the United States, nor does it justify a crash program to deploy an expensive, unproven anti-missile system.

That's Obama talk; one of a long lineage of Presidents who happens to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he continually claims - Missile shield is continueing in Poland. It will be tested (and thus "proven" like ALL missile shields are and then gone ahead, I guarantee it (or else Obama wouldn't of been funded). Furthermore, all new weapons systems are unproven, we prove them with tests and eventually real world scenarios. Might as well delete all new military procurement with that excuse.

That is besides the point, the unproven missile shield in Poland is not what we're talking about, this is Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System / PATRIOT PAC-3 we're talking about; which IMO are relatively mature technologies and pretty successful. Japan owns Patriot PAC-3 (IIRC because almost all Western Countries own one Patriot version or another) and AEGIS SM-3 is on Arleigh Burke class of guided missile destroyers that the United States and Japan (a variant of) own.

IMO, PAC-3 and AEGIS are great systems. Shooting down enemy missiles in war can only save lives. Pitty their use is not reserved for such a scenario though. Wars should not happen at all.

EDIT: LOL. PTB NOT TPB.

As for what I think should be done with North Korea, honestly, I don't know. However, surely, I don't want a blood bath from North Korea collapsing, or a blood bath caused by war. Maybe ease up on North Korea slighrly, then when current leadership like Kimmi dies we can slowly bring them into the rest of the world through negotiations.... Maybe that way we won't have to pay for it, AND there won't be a blood bath...

[edit on 6/4/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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I would like to hear north korea's standpoint. All you hear is biased views from america.

Is there any evidence or official statements documenting the launch of an intercontinental missile by North korea?



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