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Why do freemasons here deny their group's secret history?

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posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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I've been reading The Rise of the 4th Reich and apparently the group was a direct descendant of the Knights of Templar. I don't know why so many freemasons are in denial of everything that is said about their history or about them.




posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


From what I have read almost every where is that the Knights Templar is a degree and there is no real or proven connection between the two. I'm not a Mason though, but I'm sure you will get an answer.



Maybe a Mason might tell you about Forget me nots and some history of Masonry in WWII Germany.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 5/4/2009 by Sauron]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

Because there is no proof of a Masonic-Knights Templar connection. Where are your links proving what you say? Or are we to take your word on it?

reply to post by Sauron
 

And how they were imprisoned in death camps.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Do you have any proof that there is no proof that it happened? If you're going to be on the debunker side at least tell why you want to debunk it. I see a lot of posters here posting that nothing happened without proof just to deny things.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I've been reading The Rise of the 4th Reich and apparently the group was a direct descendant of the Knights of Templar. I don't know why so many freemasons are in denial of everything that is said about their history or about them.

You know exactly why they do it. haha
It's not a secret. Neither is their false-idol: Baal-god.

cuttingedge.org...


Masonic Rituals recorded and exposed by a Brother in Turkey



**Translation** **The very typical comments, or insults, and denials by Freemasons will not be accepted or tolerated on my host. There are other places with this same footage to go to.**

Masonic rituals recorded and exposed by a Brother in Turkey.

The first series of footage is a Masonic initiation of three Freemason recruits (Apprentices).

The second is a ritual of 33rd degree Freemason's slitting a sacrificial goat on a pentagram in the Lodge's temple room. Note, you can continue to observe the Masonic swords. The grand master drinks the goat's blood which is sacrificed in the middle of the room and prays in Hebrew language and ends the satanic worship ritual.

The last small segment is of a Masonic wedding at a lodge in Istanbul. There is a masonic wedding ceremony.

TRANSLATION

Please introduce the cadidates to us.

Serdar Büyüküstün, his profession is electrical engineering.

Aykut Erensoy, his profession is electrical Engineering.
Kenan Ali Akman, he is a businessman.

Understood. Please bring them inside.

Dear Misters, before all else we would like you to promise to us that,

whether you are accepted as a brother or not, after you are taken into what we call 'the room of contemplation', you will not mention anybody what you see and what you hear here, do you promise on your honour?

Mr. Erensoy?

Yes, I promise.

Mr. Büyüküstün?

I promise.

Mr. Akman?

Yes, I promise.

The inquisotor brother, let the candidates sit.

Mr. Büyüküstün, tell us what is the thing which was touched to your chest and which was made you feel with one of your hands?

Uhm... something metal... sword.

The meaning of the sword being touched to your chest is that you keep your promise otherwise you will be made to regret not keeping it and suffer pains for the rest of your life.

Let us avoid any mistakes, are you really the same people who wants to join us? Did you fill in the form without pressure from others and with your own free will and judgement? And you signed it?

Yes.

Let the cadidates commence 'the first journey'.

Who are these people? Those who seek the real light.

Misters, repeat the oath we made just now once again after me.

Before the symbol of the great architect of the universe and in front of the mason brotherhood, what I said was correct and I swear by it with all my sincerity.

I will not disclose any of our masonic secrets and what I have been shown and told here to anybody other than other brothers in a masonic lodge.

I will work towards the end of masonic goals.

I will obey the principles of the free masons' greater lodge.

I will regularly attend the meetings of the lodge which I will became a member of.

The first officer, brother, what do you want for the candidates?

The light of the scientific truth, dear master.

All other brothers who stand by the columns and decorate the true light. What do you want for the candidates?

The light of the scientific truth, dear master.

Let the scientific truth be given on the 3rd touch of the hammer.

The swords which are pointed at you symbolises the fact that, other masons will defend you should you ever be attacked by others in the rest of your life.


[edit on 5-4-2009 by News And History]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by News And History
 


Thats wonderful. If the translation is accurate, that is not the wording in the U.S. And on this site, to my knowledge, the burden of proof is on the accuser or the straw man argument proponent, not the recipient or accused. Pick a position, think about it , then post a cogent response or at least a reasonably thought out question. Thanx !



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by KSigMason
 


Do you have any proof that there is no proof that it happened? If you're going to be on the debunker side at least tell why you want to debunk it. I see a lot of posters here posting that nothing happened without proof just to deny things.


It's up to you to provide proof to the positive (proof of your assertion) not others to disprove a negative. Using your approach, I could defy you to disprove that you aren't a talking alien cat with opposable thumbs. See how that works?



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Bravo response.
And this is not a one line response as there are letters andthings that make it a
multi line thngy.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Why do freemasons here deny their group's secret history?


imo, Because freemasons took the oath to defend masonry at any cost
The important question is: ( Is it possible that, freemasons could '' lie'' to defend masonry ? )

News And History, here is a thread about this video

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by mick1423
 


I see. But can't masons defend themselves and debunk these facts without denying them completely? I'm sure there is probably a lot of truth to them , as, a lot of people supported Hitler's Nazi ideology at the time.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
But can't masons defend themselves and debunk these facts without denying them completely?

The long-accepted methodology associated with presenting claims of fantastic origin is to place the burden of evidence on those making the assertions. I see no evidence provided by you whatsoever.



Do you have any proof that there is no proof that it happened?

That is an absurdly ridiculous question.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 


Okay,


The idea of a widespread freemason conspiracy originated in the late 1700's and flourished in the US in the 1800's. Persons who embrace this theory often point to purported Masonic symbols such as the pyramid and the eye on the back of the dollar bill as evidence of the conspiracy. Allegations of a freemason conspiracy trace back to British author John Robison who wrote the 1798 book Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, carried on in the secret meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati, and Reading Societies, collected from good authorities. Robison influenced French author Abbé Augustin Barruel, whose first two volumes of his eventual four volume study, Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, beat Robison's book to the printer. Both Robison and Barruel discuss the attempt by Bavarian intellectual Adam Weishaupt to spread the ideas of the Enlightenment through his secretive society, the Order of the Illuminati.

Weishaupt was appointed a professor at the University of Ingolstadt in Germany around 1772 and elevated to the post of professor of Canon Law in 1773 or 1775 (sources conflict), the first secularist to hold that position previously held by clergy. Weishaupt began planning a group to challenge authoritarian Catholic actions in 1775, the group (under a different name) was announced on May 1, 1776. This group evolved into the Illuminati. The Enlightenment rationalist ideas of the Illuminati were, in fact, brought into Masonic lodges where they played a role in a factional fight against occultist philosophy. The Illuminati was suppressed in a series of edicts between 1784 and 1787, and Weishaupt himself was banished in 1785.

Weishaupt, his Illuminati society, the Freemasons, and other secret societies are portrayed by Robison and Barruel as bent on despotic world domination through a secret conspiracy using front groups to spread their influence.

Barruel claimed the conspirators "had sworn hatred to the altar and the throne, had sworn to crush the God of the Christians, and utterly to extirpate the Kings of the Earth." For Barruel the grand plot hinges on how Illuminati "adepts of revolutionary Equality and Liberty had buried themselves in the Lodges of Masonry" where they caused the French revolution, and then ordered "all the adepts in their public prints to cry up the revolution and its principles." Soon, every nation had its "apostle of Equality, Liberty, and Sovereignty of the People."

www.publiceye.org...

That is the background of what I'm talking about. I've read that there are a lot of illuminati ideas that are with the freemasons.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Frankidealist35]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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As a FreeMason I ask this question. DO you believe in God. If all of these people who claim about a so-called secrete society believe in god and actually check out Free-Masonery & I believe there are plenty of factual sites where 1 can get factual info. Not a bunch of crack-pot bloggers making false claims where most of the masses follow blindly.
Any one with half a brain would understand the truth. We as humans tend to believe falsehoods and if you say it enough believe it to be true.
I feel true pity on you.

Early Christianity had to be secrete to avoide persecution as they do in the middle east. Then does 1 also put Christians into the Secrete Society Relm also. Don't persue false-hoods cause it's easy. Explore the truth. Yes it's hard. However the truth will set you free.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I've read that there are a lot of illuminati ideas that are with the freemasons.


May I redirect your apparently scatter-shod attention back to the statement you made as you authored this thread --


Why do freemasons here deny their group's secret history?
I've been reading The Rise of the 4th Reich and apparently the group was a direct descendant of the Knights of Templar.

Your link provided no validation of that statement.

Perhaps you should engage in slightly more research down the path of the post-revolution sensationalism of the French aristocracy. Theirs was a brief and ill-fated attempt to blame the revolution not on their poor governance, but on shadowy secret societies. Many melodramatic present-day conspiracy conjecture on Masonry owe evolutionary roots to old writings and rumors that are difficult to substantiate.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Has the world gone crazy? We are supposed to disprove the lineage between the Templars and Freemasonry when it hasn't even been established yet?

I personally wouldn't have a problem if there was a direct lineage between the two groups. It has a certain romantic appeal.

You've got to demonstrate the linkage first, though.

Now, I have to go and worship Baal for a while, but I'll be back later.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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From what I have seen, masons are not trying to disprove a liniage with the Knights Templar, they would be happy to prove it if possible.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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Believe nothing of that which they speak of regarding their organization. They are all misled from top to bottom. Each and everyone of them were hoodwinked from the the first step they took into their organization. I rest my case.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Celtic-Man
 


If all Freemasons are misled, then by who?



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I don't know why so many freemasons are in denial of everything that is said about their history or about them.


That sentence just defies belief. Is "everything" that's ever said about someone's past actually true? Just because you read it in a book doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I once read a magazine piece that I featured in which wasn't accurate by any means, yet there it is for people to believe and read. Everyone who ever read that magazine that didn't know me personally now has someone else's understanding and 'guess-timation' about my past. In my case, it was crossed-wires and poor research rather than 'agenda' though.

I'm not a Mason myself, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder whether there such a thing as 'Lodge envy' as the need to believe that Masons must be a nefarious organisation is baffling to me.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by Celtic-Man
 


If all Freemasons are misled, then by who?



By those above them who were misled before them.



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