The Three Clinchers for Proof of Alien Life

reply to post by ArMaP


Look at my last post.............How much more evidence do you need?

EDIT to add : Did I spell "Medieval"right this time?


[edit on 4/5/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08


That was what I was talking about in a previous post, the real reports of UFOs from ancient times.

They exist, but they are usually "drowned" in a flood of wrong interpretations of known painting clues used on the paintings or on bad copies of the original paintings.

Cases like this are the most interesting, specially to those that think that UFOs only started appearing in the 20th century and that do not know about these reports.

I suppose that there are much more (maybe hundreds) or cases like this, lost in old libraries and archives (I work in software for archives and I know some cases of unexpected findings inside archives, findings of things that were never classified or that were just forgotten) and that, for some reason, were not made famous like this one.

At that time they had no photography or video, so the visual reports were made like this, usually in engravings (they were easily convert from a pencil drawing and they could make several copies, it was the only method before the press was available) and that were spread as best as they could (which was not that much).

That is also one of the reasons I think personal archives (old letters, old books that may have something written inside them by a previous owner) are a good source of documents about "unusual" phenomena, like UFOs.

So, if you had presented that image instead of the Nazca lines, you would have had a different answer from me:

yes, that shows UFOs, but we cannot know their origin, if they are from Earth or not, and in this case (and others like this) I find the terrestrial explanation as probable as the extra-terrestrial explanation.

reply to post by jkrog08


That O'Hare UFO was a hoax, there is a thread about it, but I think the O'Hare case one of the real ones, as you can see on the huge O'Hare thread here on ATS and on other related threads.

To the person who posted the demo of the star map. I'm sorry I couldn't understand your demo. I asked that random dots and points be drawn and then we see if we can find a match. In the betty diagram they are a lot of exaxt matches. So I am looking for a demo which can replicate every or most features of the map, but be random.

reply to post by ArMaP


Terrestrial or extraterrestrial?So are you a proponent of the "ancient civilization" theories?At least you agree they are aerial craft that basic mainstream history says did not exist at the time,we are making progress.Tell me what are you opinions on the ancient Earth theories?Also the O'Hare incident is far from a hoax.Actually it is one of the best evidences out there as far as I know.It was seen by multiple witnesses.They were all not in on the hoax.

reply to post by Indigo_Child


I agree,that was really showing nothing but a moving cursor.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Terrestrial or extraterrestrial?So are you a proponent of the "ancient civilization" theories?

No, I haven't found anything that points to an ancient civilisation (if you are talking about an ancient civilisation before what we consider human civilisations), but I think that there are some strange coincidences about some things (and I do believe in coincidences).

At least you agree they are aerial craft that basic mainstream history says did not exist at the time,we are making progress.

Not exactly crafts, but something, yes. For me to consider those things as crafts I would need more information, and while there are some cases of flying ships (one of those cases it was said that an anchor was stuck on a church tower, I don't remember where) I find those ships (that looked exactly like the ones used at the time) a little unusual as flying ships.

Tell me what are you opinions on the ancient Earth theories?

What do you mean by that? I would like to understand it better before answering, I may be thinking about a completely different thing and I hate misunderstandings.

Also the O'Hare incident is far from a hoax.

What I wanted to say was that that O'Hare UFO video (I forgot the word video ) is a hoax. The case itself I think it is one of the real UFO cases of the present, and the fact that many hoaxed photos surfaced and not one clear photo with so many witnesses makes me think that someone may have used those hoaxes as a "cover" in case the real photos would appear.

PS: and yes, you spelt medieval right that time.

reply to post by ArMaP

Tell me what are you opinions on the ancient Earth theories?

I am talking about ancient civilizations that were as advanced or more advanced than us now.Societies that existed thousands,if not millions of years ago that were responsible for the Atlantis and Lumeria stories.If you do believe in them don't you think they might had come from elsewhere or had help?

"Hakim's Razor"??! I think you meant Occam's Razor but maybe Hakim was his barber.

reply to post by jkrog08


I have to say that the stuff that you posted from Samaria to Japan were much more interesting to me than the Nazca lines.

I read Von Daniken a long long time ago and the Nazca lines are very interesting, and I think that they are evidence of an advanced technology but not necesarilly an alien technology.

The Samarians on the other hand have drawings of DNA, star maps, alien beings, etc. Then there are the stories of alien influence on their culture. If Ufologists were wise they would sponsor expeditions to investigate the Samarians. There is so much that we don't know about this culture.

I also thought that the Japanese drawing was very interesting. It shows a highly developed knowledge of art, perspective, geography, etc. Notice Mount Fuji in the background. Notice the flying discs, or whatever those guys are riding on are clearly shown above the cloud level. Something else that really intrigues me is that one of the guys seems to be hunting the antelope with a gun! Very interesting. What is the estimate for the age of that drawing?

reply to post by lunarminer


The exact age I do not know other than it is at least 1000 years old.

reply to post by jkrog08


Well then that is a very amazing drawing indeed! Even as a work of art it is very advanced. It predates the invention of the gun, by at least 2 centuries, and yet it clearly depicts an object whose form and function is clearly recognizable as a gun. Not to mention the flying discs, which are clearly shown to be flying above the ground level and clouds are clearly visible under them. I also think that the halos around the two guy's heads is also very interesting, centuries before the Japanese would have had contact with the West, yet they have halos.

reply to post by lunarminer


A star for your post. I agree that the Sumerians appear to have been onto something worthwhile to study and consider. I'm not a spelling nazi except when it comes to myself. But I do want to point out that it is "Sumerians", with a "u". No offense meant at all. For some reason I felt a need to point this out.

The big problem with trying to use ancient drawings, megaliths, monoliths, or unique / strange art as proof, is that ancients DID worship things in the sky profusely, much more so than now. Of course, I am talking about the planets and stars, the moon, the sun, solar eclipses, and in fact, anything in the sky.

They believed they were gods. And they worshiped them in every way imaginable. They sacrificed human beings to them. They built entire cities around them. They waged wars based on their beliefs of them. They constructed amazing costumes and rituals in respect for them.

So while you may automatically jump to the conclusion that anything that looks 'alien' has to be an alien, or that if it was immense and facing the sky it has to be for the benefit if aliens.

I believe in UFOs, but I don't think that is conclusive proof of anything. Some civilizations worshiped dozens or hundreds of different gods, and I think it's AS likely that this is their purpose, as you theory they were a way of saying 'Hey there!' to aliens.

You know, you could be right. But you could equally be wrong imo. So it's not remotely 'conclusive.'

Don't forget the Egyptians. How the pyramids are aligned to that thing haha.
We have incontrovertible proof our ancestors could not have built the Great Pyramid with the tools and methods they possessed.

They were basically in the stone age, and then suddenly they were prosperous.

A lot of their artworks of strange looking beings are claimed to be Gods, and that these Gods gave them the arts of civilization. You must remember the Egyptians were in the stone age and suddenly they became prosperous.

I believe these God's (aliens) gave them art of civilization.

The Sumerians claim they owed everything to the 'gods' (Anunnaki) that taught mankind the arts of civilized life. The Egyptians referred to the Nefertu who ruled over them during the Zep Tepi (First Time) until the reign was handed over to the Pharaohs.

ancientx.com...
Check this out!
Here's the beginning passage of the article :
"From the perspective of conventional archaeological and anthropological thinking, the origins of humankind and the emergence of civilization from the Stone Age remain enigmatic. We have incontrovertible proof our ancestors could not have built the Great Pyramid with the tools and methods they possessed. Yet official science simply ignores or tries to explain away many serious questions and issues such as how the Great Pyramid - the world’s largest precision-engineered stone structure - was constructed using only hammer-stones, ropes, manpower and sledges.

However, there are other issues that need to be addressed and today’s genetic research is shedding new light on this field. The implications of several important recent findings seem to have escaped the attention of many independent investigators. Established archaeologists and anthropologists have either ignored or railed against the findings of these controversial DNA studies. I am referring to genetic studies into the origin of the domesticated dog and into the diet of our Paleolithic and early Neolithic ancestors. "

Here's more....


14TH CENTURY FRESCO PAINTING.
From Kosovo / Yugoslavia.


"Baptism of Jesus" by Aert De Gelder in about 1710 AD.
Courtesy: Crystalinks


A 6m high character with a large round decorated head.
The massive body, the strange dressing, the folds around
the neck and on the chest suggest some ancient time astronaut.
Found in Jabbaren, in the Tassili mountains, Algeria, south
of the Hoggar.
Courtesy: UFO Evidence


Found on the Step Pyramid of Saqqara in Egypt.
Courtesy: TMFIH


A Maya Fresco. Resembles an astronaut (highlighted) in a
space capsule looking through a viewer!

But probably all these can be explained away by the debunkers as nothing but depiction of religious rituals of ancient priests or the manifestation of the artists unbridled imagination. Quite possible but it’s also possible that this stuff is depiction of reality – expressed by cave paintings and murals.

Cheers!

reply to post by mikesingh


For all we know all these religious figures, jesus, zeus, the egyptian gods etc could have been aliens.

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Originally posted by mikesingh
Here’s something that’ll set the debunkers thinking. This looks like ancient astronauts and a UFO in this Fergana cave painting, Uzbekistan.

Courtesy: K Pax. Dan Mirahorian

But some will contend that it's just a rock painting by a moron under the influence of pot!

Oh yeah!

Cheers!

No - but some would check further...

"French researcher Didier Leroux revealed in Lumières dans la Nuit (n. 335, Feb 2000) that it’s not a 12,000 years old rock art, but rather a 1967 soviet magazine illustration.

The first issue of Russian magazine Spoutnik, also published in other languagues, including French, featured the article “The Visitors from Cosmos”, authored by Viatcheslaw Zaitsev. Right at the start of the article you can find the familiar illustration."

Clearly a case of "Believing is seeing"

Have you even bothered to research this or just copied what that web site says?

Here is the original painting....

ROCK ENGRAVINGS OF FERGANA


Next of the town of Fergana, near the Alai mountains, in
Uzbekistan, there exists this cave painting 2 meters in height
and ten thousand years in antiquity. The Academy of Sciences
of Moscow has exhibited a copy of this image.
Courtesy: bibliotecapleyades.

Cheers!

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Mike, you need to read your own link. If you believe the picture you posted is a cave painting thousand of years old, you are blind, and can't read.

Start here:
"It seems that there are really prehistoric caves there, showing these "ancient astronauts" paintings which inspired the Sputnik Magazine article and illustration:"

NOT the same painting, OK? How many times was it pointed out already in this thread? Are you so desperate to believe anything that you're unable to read?

reply to post by jkrog08



The shuttle communicates via 2 systems neither of these two would be picked up by short wave radio like this person claims. Short wave radio would just bounce off the atmosphere and go into space. Same reason why you can talk with people in china on short wave it bounces off the atmosphere and sent back down to earth doesnt make it into space. So the obvious conclusion is this person is lying.
see below:

S-BAND SYSTEM
The shuttle orbiter S-band system operates in the S-band portion of the RF spectrum of 1,700 to 2,300 MHz

The Ku-band antenna aboard the space shuttle orbiter is located in the payload bay; thus, Ku-band can be used only when the orbiter is on orbit. The orbiter payload bay doors are opened and the Ku-band antenna is deployed. The Ku-band system operates in the Ku-band portion of the radio frequency spectrum between 15,250 MHz and 17,250 MHz. The Ku-band carrier frequencies are 13.755 GHz from the TDRS to the orbiter and 15.003 GHz from the orbiter to the TDRS.