The Three Clinchers for Proof of Alien Life

I believe in aliens, it seems foolish to discount the possibility at any least and I like the idea. As for your clinchers I cant agree. Admittedly two of them are very odd but first I'll talk about the Nazcar lines. I always thought they were only viewable from the air for similar reasons as why many churches were designed to look like crosses from the air, for God to see. Maybe they are for simply symbolic reasons and not meant to be viewed or even the act of making them was the importance of them? I also cant discount the possibility that the cave paintings aren't just modern misinterpretations, they say people see what they want to see and flavour their interpretations with their own experience, a bit like how we find galaxies that look like things, or clouds even.

The star map is certainly very interesting, it had me pretty convinced until I read another member's posts, with the seemingly boundless expanse that is space having the ability to match up a seemingly random array of dots with existing star systems really could be coincidence, has anyone tried doing it with a randomly generated set of stars? As we discover the heavens we might find every arrangement of stars given a little lenience as with the original? I have to say though it does add weight but not a clincher for me.

I really don't know about the recording, it seems like proof that something is going on and that something could be aliens given the circumstances of the sightings. The first thing that comes to mind is the amount of edited and second hand information that's bouncing around the net but this is supposed to be from one guy a full recording so maybe. I find it unfortunate that its been claimed a hoax though, oh and you mention two people hearing it, if the hoaxer was a radio operator then anyone in range who was listening would have heard it, did anyone else? There must have been more than two people listening in on the missions.

These things have certainly made me pause though, and I don't discount the possibility that the nazcar lines are for aliens and the cave paintings are said aliens. Nor that the star map might be real, its my favourite of the three and the recording might only be labelled as a hoax to hide the truth it contains, then again that last one would only prove that there was something going on, not the nature of that thing.

Nice topic all the same .

reply to post by jkrog08


Nice thread Jkrog!

Have you ever heard to the Harashagahama object?
(also known as the Edo-period UFO.)

It washed ashore in what is now Ibaraki, and it contained an occupant; A young woman who spoke a strange language and who carried a strange box.... it is all very strange ;-)


From whence did they come?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5e5b3e07fd0b.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/de84c1695e7a.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b02aab9c4e5a.jpg[/atsimg]


"Edo-period documents describe variations of this mysterious encounter.

Toen Shousetsu (1825), a book by Kyokutei Bakin (who is most famous for his 106-volume samurai epic Nansou Satomi Hakkenden) tells the story of the same encounter, referring to the strange vessel as the utsuro-fune (”hollow ship”). Another variation of this tale appears in Ume no Chiri (1844), penned by a relatively unknown author named Nagahashi Matajirou. A thorough analysis of these two variations of the story can be found in a translated article by Kazuo Tanaka titled “Did a Close Encounter of the Third Kind Occur on a Japanese Beach in 1803?”"
-external source quote


[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

What about this?

A mayan sarcophagus lid
files.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by djvexd
I am not a debunker but a believing skeptic...you have shown nor proven nothing. . .

Lies.


Jkrog has no doubt spent several hours putting this thread together.

He has filled it with images from around the world - taking the time to research, upload and source each one of them.

To say he has 'shown nothing' is a lie - and proof is relative.

So, why did you lie?

Proof is something we can measure. Proof is something we can test repeatedly, with the same results. Proof is something that can stand the rigors of peer review.

Proof is not a cave painting or a story or a youtube video and proof is NOT relative to the observer. He's definitely shown things, absolutely. Those things were thought provoking and interesting but they're not proof.

reply to post by Funshinez


Please read my post again.

You have clearly misread it.

Nowhere in that post do I claim these photos are 'proof' ;-)


Nice try Kiddo!

reply to post by jkrog08


Here is a UFO that was drawn into this Tibetan artwork. It is from a 10th Century Tibetan translation of the Sanskrit text "Prajnaparamita Sutra", held at a Japanese museum:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/13eba216742d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cfaa036756e6.jpg[/atsimg]
(These two look like Mexicans with flying sombreros... In Tibet, 1000 years ago)


*Here is my favourite variety of Ancient action-figure; the 10th century Equadorian Astronaut ;-)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5bba9b38e067.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Well nowhere in my post do I explicitly claim that you claim that. I quoted your post but isn't it a little asinine to call me on some posting technicality rather than respond to my message?

I quoted your post but it wasn't to call you out or something. Just to define what I, and I suspect lots of other people on ATS interested in this topic, would consider "proof". So great job. "Kiddo".

reply to post by Funshinez


I do not believe that you would accept a digital image appearing on your monitor as proof of extraterrestrial life...

So do you have anything to contribute besides baseless and uncorroborated critique?

Please contribute something other than unsubstantiated opinion - or feel free to speculate or even give us your definition of what constitutes 'proof' over the internet....


Edit: So as not to waste another post solely on you; I shall also add the following image of the Madonna and the Christ himself - note the UFO' and accompanying child-sized 'angel':

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/97b5c88e5904.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b2356a3c303.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

So What’s The Big Deal?

I mean, to the debunkers, what’s the big deal if ETs have visited Earth? It does get frustrating seeing the same old grinding arguments from them like a needle stuck in a gramophone groove or a tape recorder that’s lost its hinges.

Let’s see mathematically, (I won’t go into the details now) the odds of the existence of ETs. If the visible universe could be shrunk to the size of a golf ball, then it would take a sphere 850 light years across to fill it with these golf balls! Incomprehensible? Yes! That’s pretty mind boggling to say the least!

Now in all these trillions of golf balls that are universes, there could be more technologically advanced civilizations than all the grains of sand on Earth’s beaches plus some!

In this there could be millions of civilizations that are Type II and beyond that have mastered FTL space travel. According to Dr Michio Kaku, Type III civilizations could very well be flitting around and between universes as well as in other dimensions too!

Could a handful of some of these civilizations have visited Earth? Why not? They have the capabilities to do so.

So again, what’s the big deal if ETs have visited Earth? In this huge universe/universes, are we the only sentient beings? I think not!

Cheers!

Mmmmmm, human adrenal glands.
You humans are all over the place.
We didn't visit earth, we have always been here. We can go out there as well. We are not visitors, we are the 30% or the fallen 1/3. We inhabit many worlds, and there are those of us who have been forgotten and left behind.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

Originally posted by mikesingh
So again, what’s the big deal if ETs have visited Earth? In this huge universe/universes, are we the only sentient beings? I think not!

Of course ETs may be here. Of course they may have visited in the past. This thread is about proof. Objectively, there isn't any.

reply to post by nablator


Greetings,

Would you accept a digital image appearing on your monitor as proof of extraterrestrial life?

Didn't think so.

Have you made real-world efforts in your research of the phenomena?
(BTW, haranguing us for our speculations is not research)



Edit: To avoid wasting a post on Nablator;

*Here is another image of the Edo UFO and the occupant with her strange gold box.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ee4b2d45db.jpg[/atsimg]






[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

Why do people who throw 'there's no continuity in the worldwide evidence' use that to try and debunk information.
Like the ancient cave drawings from thousands of years ago, " they don't look similar , so therefore they are not aliens".
The oe reason there's no continuity is that different people have different drawing skills so no 2 images are going to look identical.
With the materials they had , even they weren't the same the world over so why should all the images 'look similar'?.
Besides apparently there are at least 57 different species ( accordingf to net sources and here on ATS) so even thought a grey looks similar to another grey they are diffferent, so maybe it wasn't the same group that visited the ancient cultures.
And besides ,my take on the floating heads scene, is that if you looked at a crowd of people then had to try and draw it , how many heads would you see as opposed to bodies, would you take the time to daw they're heads AND bodies , how could you see their bodies if they were behind another being? If you have to draw a crowd or a mass of people you'd focus on the front rowsx bodies then draw the heads only behind, its all a matter of perspective..

IMO

Originally posted by jkrog08
I wasn't bashing anyones opinions,I just made a thread with very strong events that are the hardest to disprove,infact the only disproving as been interpretation of one of the three.I welcome all opinions and like usual(and like I said in my OP) I invite all to come discuss,believers and skeptics alike.

Why "hardest to disprove"? Where is you proof? Alternative mundane explanations have been proposed for all of them. A proof must take into account, objectively, reasonable refutations. If you dismiss any study done by people you don't agree with, this is not a discussion. Cheap way to win any argument.

I'm giving you the benefit if the doubt, in case you really are open minded and want to discuss things rationally.

All scientists can't be part of the alien cover-up nonsense, here are some serious studies and opinions by scientists:

UFOs in art.
www.sprezzatura.it...
Not all pages are translated, read at least these :
www.sprezzatura.it...
www.sprezzatura.it...

The planetary interpretation of Betty Hill's map. (Betty hill never said it was a starmap.) Both authors are enthusiastic about the idea to get in touch with extra-terrestrials, and published books about genuine crop circles, so you can't say they are evil debunkers.
www.kochkyborg.de...
www.kochkyborg.de...

Interview of Carl Sagan about the Hills abduction and map.
www.youtube.com...

Beliefs can't be debunked. The silliest cargo cult is respectable, and can't be disproved. Only facts can be discussed in terms of true/false. An interpretation in not a proof. If an alien archaeologist in a million years digs up a church, he will be amazed to see that many humans represented on the walls are being followed by a bright disk-shaped flying object, right above their heads. Definitive proof that humans in the first century A.D. had flying saucer technology, it can't be a coincidence with all the corroborating iconography, right?

"I don't understand it so it must be alien" is a silly argument. It's easy to fall into pseudo-science if you're jumping to conclusions. Skyfloating mentioned the magnetic anomaly in the last post to his "Ancient Extraterrestrials" thread. It is easy to claim that it is hard evidence of aliens. But remember, the burden of proof is on people claiming things. I don't claim aliens are not here. How would I know? On the other hand I do claim that I found a magnetic anomaly under my car. Is this proof that my car was built by aliens? No. I guess this answers Skyfloating's question about "debunkers" ignoring this kind of facts, that are evidence of nothing at all.

In conclusion, it's impossible to do an unbiased study without listening to other theories. If you are open minded you will not reject them, you will study them and come up with rational arguments to counter them. There are too many people so desperate to believe that they will accept anything as proof. Don't be one of them.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Have you made real-world efforts in your research of the phenomena?
(BTW, haranguing us for our speculations is not research)

Jumping to conclusions is not research. Try to read real science sometime.

*Here is another image of the Edo UFO and the occupant with her strange gold box.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ee4b2d45db.jpg[/atsimg]

OK, I concede you have a point, this is clearly an alien gold box, it has alien writing all around it!

Originally posted by nablator
Jumping to conclusions is not research.

Then why do you continue to do it so regularly?

Perhaps you should try speculating, as most of us are currently doing.

There is no need for you to get so upset over a few of us speculating about such things - in the Alien and UFO's forum of all places...

Relax.

Originally posted by nablator
OK, I concede you have a point, this is clearly an alien gold box, it has alien writing all around it!

You are the one who has interpreted the gold box as being an 'alien gold box' that has 'alien writing all around it'...

...Those are your words.

*I only said that the box was 'strange' - I did this in two posts.


Cheers!

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Yes, relax indeed, like you calling people liars because they are expressing their opinion:

Originally posted by Exuberant1


Lies.


Jkrog has no doubt spent several hours putting this thread together.

He has filled it with images from around the world - taking the time to research, upload and source each one of them.

To say he has 'shown nothing' is a lie - and proof is relative.

So, why did you lie?

you just cant wake some people up, because they do not want to awake!

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by nablator
Jumping to conclusions is not research.

Then why do you continue to do it so regularly?

Perhaps you should try speculating, as most of us are currently doing.

There is no need for you to get so upset over a few of us speculating about such things - in the Alien and UFO's forum of all places...

Relax.

Originally posted by nablator
OK, I concede you have a point, this is clearly an alien gold box, it has alien writing all around it!

You are the one who has interpreted the gold box as being an 'alien gold box' that has 'alien writing all around it'...

...Those are your words.

*I only said that the box was 'strange' - I did this in two posts.


Cheers!

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

Good points.

I always wondered why those who try to debunk everything get upset because people are speculating and talking about these thing on a folder titled Aliens & UFO's. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it's because they are dealing with a belief that they hold about these things and because it's a belief they want to be certain. If you notice everything is absolute with many of them. Any picture or video has been discussed and debunked so lets just shut down ATS since they have all the answers.

I think the cave paintings are very interesting and also there not in isolation. These things have been recorded in cave paintings, paintings, ancient manuscripts, picture and video. Everyone who reports these things are not stupid as some so called debunkers want you to believe.

All of these things can only be false or mistaken if you reduce life in the universe to a box that started on earth 4.5 billion years ago.

I mean just think about it.

Every abduction case - false or mistaken
Every eyewitness account - false or mistaken
Every mass sighting - false or mistaken
Every picture - false or mistaken
Every video - false or mistaken

This is truly illogical and you can only make these assumptions if you start with the priori that these things don't or can't exist. On what grounds do you reduce life in the universe into a box?

We don't know what constitutes 96% of the universe.

These people can't tell you wether there a simulation or a hologram and yet they can tell you that all of these things are false or mistaken? That makes no sense.

We have to be enlightened enough at this point in our species or we are in trouble. There's no reason when it comes to these things. People throw reason and logic out of the window because they start with a belief.

I also think the Betty Hill star map is interesting. I was familiar with the Betty and Barney Hill story in general but the star map is intriguing.

From what I understand she had no knowledge of Astronomy and her map had pictures of a star system that was found years later. How did she know these things with no knowledge of Astronomy? This is what I looked for. If anyone has any information that she had knowledge of Astronomy I would like to hear it.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by platosallegory]

Nazca lines were probably messages to their gods and not to an alien race, all though it could be possible that they are the same thing this is in know way irrefutable evidence.

Cave drawings are interesting but just don't look like the modern day depiction of a 'grey' - your asking allot from the imagination here. Also you may want to read Graham Hancocks' book 'supernatural' it offers a valuable insight into why these cave painting appeared which basically was because of hallucinogenic plants. Although Hancock does go onto argue the case for aliens as well and even attempts to merge to two ideas - very interesting.

I have seen a few NASA videos and they seem the most coherent in terms of actual evidence, so yea NASA does have some explaining to do - but then you do have to consider space debris and the fact that they are always on the look out for the possibility of other nations blowing them out of the sky, unlikely but they have to consider this - an out of orbit satellite could easily be identified as a bogey.

I am a believer down to things I have seen personally but this does not offer anybody with strong evidence as you suggested. If anything it gives unbelievers more leverage to not take believers seriously.

Cheers