The Three Clinchers for Proof of Alien Life

Originally posted by Phage
I see nothing in the incident that rules out fireworks.

The thing that does not fit the most is the black spheres, I have never seen black fireworks (and I see them three or four times each year).

reply to post by ArMaP

Black puffs of smoke? We've seen a lot of fireworks so something like that wouldn't impress us much but for someone who had never seen anything like it, it would be a different story. Anything "new" in the sky becomes a very big deal. Particularly under a heavily religious influence.

reply to post by Phage


Yes, but smoke is smoke, and that was nothing new at the time, so I don't think a cloud of smoke would be considered as black spheres.

Also, if I read it well, it does not say that the objects appeared and disappeared, but that they stood in the sky above Nuremberg.

reply to post by ArMaP

Then, as now, eyewitness reports are not entirely reliable. The tendency to "fill in the blanks" is strong.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by platosallegory

If there's a high probability of extra-terrestrial intelligence doesn't that mean that there's a high probability that they have visited us?

No. That is not a logical progression. There are many intermediary steps required. None of which have been met. Too many assumptions to be made.

If you have reached the conclusion that extra-terrestrial have a high probability of existing then you have to reach the conclusion that they have a high probability of visiting us unless you put a boundary on the intelligence of these extra-terrestrials and if so what are you basing it on?

We could be dealing with a Type 3 Civilization or an extra-dimensional civilization.

Thus, perhaps the most interesting civilization is a Type III civilization, for it is truly immortal. They have exhausted the power of a single star, and have reached for other star systems. No natural catastrophe known to science is capable of destroying a Type III civilization.

Faced with a neighboring supernova, it would have several alternatives, such as altering the evolution of dying red giant star which is about to explode, or leaving this particular star system and terraforming a nearby planetary system.

Interview with Dr. Michio Kaku
www.spacedaily.com...

I think Betty Hill said something interesting about her experience:

Once her exam was complete, The Doctor left and The Leader and Betty talked. It wasn't long before another Grey came in and excitedly left. The Leader came back and tried to pull out her teeth, asking why her teeth wouldn't come out and why Barney's did. She tried to explain that he had false teeth, and hers were real. She then tried to explain how they aged, but he didn't understand, so she tried to explain a year. He didn't understand it, so she changed the subject.

tinwiki.org...

This sounds to me like a species that may have reached the technological singularity. They might be so advanced that they are trying to figure out who we are.

After the technological singularity, technology can advance faster than we can grasp it.

Maybe some of these beings realize that they were like we are before the singularity and they are trying to protect us and some may want to control us.

This is speculation on my part.

I'm just curious, if you have reached the conclusion that extra-terrestrial intelligence has a high probability of existing, what are you basing the low probabilty that they have visited us on?

[edit on 10-4-2009 by platosallegory]

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
I just wanted to add a couple facts that are usually overlooked.

***snip***
The Nazca spider also accurately depicts a member of a known spider genus-Ricinulei. This, as it happens, is one of the rarest spider genera in the world, so rare indeed that it has only been found in remote and inaccessible parts of the Amazon rain forest.

Have you checked which member it would be?

Only thing significant about the Ricinulei is "Ricinuleids comprise a small order found in the Americas and Africa.

[edit on 10.4.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

Originally posted by platosallegory


We could be dealing with a Type 3 Civilization or an extra-dimensional civilization.

Thus, perhaps the most interesting civilization is a Type III civilization, for it is truly immortal. They have exhausted the power of a single star, and have reached for other star systems. No natural catastrophe known to science is capable of destroying a Type III civilization.

Where do you get this stuff??

we still cant decide what the lights in the sky are

And you decided they burned out a star and are immortal

Are you a Sci-fi writer perhaps ?

Somehow I was not allowed to add this text:

"These are small animals (less than 10 mm -- i.e., less than 0.4") that live in high humidity microhabitats such as leaf litter. One of their most unusual characteristics is a hood-like structure that commonly covers the anterior of the cephalothorax (thus covering the mouth and chelicerae)

Doesn't sound like it looks a lot like the Nazca spider.

Haven't found any pictues of Ricinuleis that even get close to the Nazca spider.

Ricinulei spiders

[edit on 10.4.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

Originally posted by Seany

Originally posted by platosallegory


We could be dealing with a Type 3 Civilization or an extra-dimensional civilization.

Thus, perhaps the most interesting civilization is a Type III civilization, for it is truly immortal. They have exhausted the power of a single star, and have reached for other star systems. No natural catastrophe known to science is capable of destroying a Type III civilization.

Where do you get this stuff??

we still cant decide what the lights in the sky are

And you decided they burned out a star and are immortal

Are you a Sci-fi writer perhaps ?

These are not my words but Dr. Michio Kaku. I posted the link as well and I will post it again.
www.spacedaily.com...

Dr. Michio Kaku graduated from Harvard in 1968, number one in his physics class. He went on to the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory at the University of California in 1972, and in 1973 Dr. Kaku held a lectureship at Princeton University. Today, he holds the Henry Semat Professorship in Theoretical Physics at the City University of New York (CUNY) , where he has taught for over 25 years.

Dr. Kaku is an internationally recognized authority in theoretical physics and the environment. His most popular and best selling books include "Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps and the Tenth Dimension" and "Visions: How Science Will Revolutionize the 21st Century", which have been widely translated in different languages.

reply to post by platosallegory

There is nothing that says higher level civilizations must evolve. Speculation about such civilizations is just that. The Kaku interview points out some of the problems with such an evolution. Part of the speculation is the assumption that those problems are not insurmountable.

On the other hand, we are intelligent life (some might argue with that assessment). We know, for a fact, that intelligent life has come to be at least once. Something that happens once can happen again. How common it is, is another matter entirely and, for now, can be only purely speculative.

reply to post by platosallegory

No natural catastrophe known to science is capable of destroying a Type III civilization.

None but the death of the Universe(only a type 4 could be able to theoretically survive that).Good points though and Dr.Kaku is my idol and probably the smartest(at least one of them)man alive in his field.He also recognizes ATS.

As far as saying higher type civilizations(Phage) aren't advanced is totally ridiculous and a misunderstanding of the term.To be a type 3 civ you must have mastered FTL,interstellar travel,control of stars,etc.

And on the black spheres,I think Armap said it best when he said they knew what smoke was.Also(Phage) you said they exaggerated over time?Really?Also you said that the event didn't last long...Really?You should do more research on it and you would see the even happened multiple times within 3 years and lasted at times for WEEKS.

reply to post by jkrog08

Please show me where I said higher type civilizations would not be advanced? I said there is nothing that says higher civilizations must come into being.

Sure they knew what smoke was. They knew what fire was too. But seeing both of these things appear in the sky (along with rockets) would have been something outside of their experience and thus subject to misinterpretation.

Please show me where I said the event didn't last long. Please show me where I said anything about any time span.

Please present evidence that this sort of incident occurred multiple times and ever lasted for weeks.

Originally posted by Phage
Sure they knew what smoke was. They knew what fire was too.

The smoke from fireworks is like any other smoke anyone could have seen at the time, but the fire is different, it's fire without a visible flame.

While I was writing this post I thought that they may have not known fireworks but they probably knew fire arms, like cannons, that have the same smoke and flash.

I have to look to see if there had been any military action near Nuremberg before that time and that involved the use of cannons or other firearms.

reply to post by Phage

According to the Nuremberg Gazette, the "dreadful apparition" filled the morning sky with "cylindrical shapes from which emerged black, red, orange and blue-white spheres that darted about." Between the spheres, there were "crosses with the color of blood." This "frightful spectacle" was witnessed by "numerous men and women." Afterwards, a "black, spear-like object" appeared. The author of the Gazette warned that "the God-fearing will by no means discard these signs, but will take it to heart as a warning of their merciful Annunciation with St. Emidius Father in heaven, will mend their lives and faithfully beg God, that he avert His wrath, including the well-deserved punishment, on us, so that we may, temporarily here and perpetually there, live as His children."

(Rense.com)

-----------------

A broadsheet that dates from 1561, held in the Wickiana Collection of Switzerland's Zurich Central Library, describes an ancient battle of ufos over the skies of Nuremberg, Germany, on April 14th of that very same year. At sunrise, many people witnessed large numbers of dark red, blue and black 'globes' or 'plates' near the sun, 'some three in a row, now and then four in a square, also some alone. And amongst these globes some blood colored crosses were seen.' The document also refers to two great tubes ' in which three, four and more globes were seen. They then all began to fight each other.' This went on for about an hour, until 'they all fell...... from the sun and sky down to the earth, producing alot of steam'. Beneath the globes a long object that looked like a great black spear was also described as being seen.

At sunrise on the 14th April 1561, the citizens of Nuremberg beheld "A very frightful spectacle."
At dawn of April 4, in the sky of Nuremberg (Germany), a lot of men and women saw a very alarming spectacle where various objects were involved, including ....

[A broadsheet that dates from 1561, held in the Wickiana Collection of Switzerland's Zurich Central Library, describes an ancient battle of ufos over the skies of Nuremberg, Germany, on April 14th of that very same year. At sunrise, many people witnessed large numbers of dark red, blue and black 'globes' or 'plates' near the sun, 'some three in a row, now and then four in a square, also some alone. And amongst these globes some blood colored crosses were seen.' The document also refers to two great tubes ' in which three, four and more globes were seen. They then all began to fight each other.' This went on for about an hour, until 'they all fell...... from the sun and sky down to the earth, producing alot of steam'. Beneath the globes a long object that looked like a great black spear was also described as being seen.
A second broadsheet in the same collection describes an eerily similar event at Basel, Switzerland, in 1566. At sunrise on August the 7th, 'many large black globes were seen in the air, moving before the sun with great speed, and turning against one another as though fighting. Some of them turned red and fiery and afterwards faded and disappeared'. What is so important about these two historical incidents is the amount of detail provided, offering modern researchers a glimpse of how truly bizarre these ancient spectacles might have been.

UFO Home
Subversive Element Home


www.ufoevidence.org...
www.subversiveelement.com...


Well is that good enough evidence of multiple events?

reply to post by jkrog08


That isnt multiple events that is multiple sources completely different. News traveled from one paper to another so its not unusual to see the same article in different papers even months later. They didnt have the the AP wire.

reply to post by jkrog08

Ok. I see two separate events. One in Nuremberg on April 14, 1561 and one in Basel on August 7, 1566. There seems to be some discrepancy in the version from ufologie.net. They list it as occurring on April 4 but the other sources, quoting the same report (using the same words) in the Nuremberg Gazette, use the April 14th date.

I suppose two could be considered multiple (even though separated by more than 5 years). But I don't see any mention of the events lasting "WEEKS".

And I don't see where I said the things you claim I said.

BTW, not all fireworks are rockets.
www.pyrouniverse.com...

[edit on 4/10/2009 by Phage]

How do you explain this???Are ALL 62 children lying or mistaken?


[edit on 4/10/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08


Why do you think the kids are NOT lying or mistaken? "It's a good joke, let's run with it." It's happened before. (Check out "spiritualism" for example, a hoax by kids that got out of control.)

reply to post by jkrog08


Why that comparison? You know perfectly well that this case has nothing to do with fireworks or symbolism, and that type of reaction on your part is one of the things that makes me think that you need to be less emotionally involved in this subject.

Keep on studying, find more data, more cases, discuss them, but please don't act as if you are mocking people because they states they opinions about one case by applying those opinions to unrelated events.

That way you acting like the pseudo-sceptics that you dislike so much.

reply to post by ArMaP


Fair enough,I edited that out.You are right,sometimes I do get a little to heated over certain topics.So what is your take on the video?