The Three Clinchers for Proof of Alien Life

Please Stay On Topic

Skepticism and disagreement are fine, but baiting, off-topic comments and other forms of disruption are not.

Let's please focus on the topic, respect the rights of all members to express their opinions and exchange ideas politely.

Thanks.

Sorry everyone I haven't been responding but I had to take care of some computer virus issues(I hope I did!).Thanks skyfloating for that nice bit of info(I didn't know that!).I will read over the new post(quite a bit) and respond soon,thanks.

The current "hoaxer" thread shows that.

What thread is that?


Also I see the usual battle lines have been drawn and the blood baths begun.I ask that we debate these issues in a more calm manner,sticking to the issues at hand and not how a skeptic or believer interpret those issues.
With that said however,I see at lease one example of what appears to be "pseudoskepticism" and I suggest you read this thread(believers and skeptics alike) and maybe it will help "calm the seas" as I see it clearly needs to be done.

As far as the "Dorothy" incident I will research that as I have never heard of it before.Thanks everyone for all your input(skeptics too),I have learned quite a bit more than a knew before on this issue.I think it is work like this that will someday allow us to find "the truth".

[edit on 4/8/2009 by jkrog08]

Originally posted by jkrog08
I ask that we debate these issues in a more calm manner,sticking to the issues at hand and not how a skeptic or believer interpret those issues.

Interpretation is primary component of Speculation - which is what we come here to do ;-)

As an Example I give you the Vimana - from the Mahabharata, which has been interpreted as being a flying craft utilized by a highly developed civilization that existed several millennia ago and during a period whose records have some conventional researchers interpreting the data as being mythology.....

However information concerning ancient flying machines can be also be located in the Hakatha and the Chaldean Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It also contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, vertical stabilizer, etc
(Yet conventional researchers have interpreted this as mythology... Except in India)

-Here are some examples of the various interpretations of the Vimana craft-

A more 'primitive' representation:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1199a2b515e8.jpg[/atsimg]

Technological interpretation of Vimana data from the early 1900's:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/58aa2629ba35.jpg[/atsimg]

Technological interpretations from the 1920's:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cabe2e37ca83.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b69c0dad1a5.jpg[/atsimg]

From the latter half of the Twentieth century - we are finally starting to reach parity with some of the technology described in the ancient texts:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16a47ce37268.jpg[/atsimg]


Early 2000s - Digital Representations of non-conventional technological interpretations associated with the Rukma Vimana appear on the modern reincarnation of the 'communications network' described in the Indian texts; which we now know as the internet (a concept that was unfathomable for the majority of the lifespan of these ancient documents):
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/96f2882086bf.jpg[/atsimg]

*I'm sure Mikesingh would disagree with the 'conventional' assessment of the various Vimana craft that are documented in India's ancient histories as being 'mythologies'...

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Good post,I was just really wanting the more "violent"arguments to chill out.It is amazing the level of technology we are now learning that some "primitive"civs had.I wonder where they copied or got it from???

Originally posted by jkrog08
....It is amazing the level of technology we are now learning that some "primitive"civs had.I wonder where they copied or got it from???

I believe that we developed it ourselves - without help from aliens.

Perhaps we over-reached and found ourselves in conflict with an alien crime syndicate who refer to themselves as the L.O.R.D. - this is recounted in the story about fall of the tower of babel, which symbolizes the end of one of humanities technological epochs:

'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.' So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city.' Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.


*It is like the Battlestar Galactica says: all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again ;-)
(some ancient texts even tell of mankind's mechanical servants... along with ancient robots built for war and defense.)

When our histories refer to the gods coming to earth - perhaps they are referring to Humans who established off-world colonies during these technological epochs, and who's descendants were returning to the homeworld which they found in shambles, the people reduced to 'primitives' who had forgotten even such things as the plow. They had to be retaught, and from what we read in the Sumerian tablets - they were ;-)

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1

(some ancient texts even tell of mankind's mechanical servants... along with ancient robots built for war and defense.)

Where?Can you link some sources?So you think that we were at one time at war with aliens and they defeated us or what are you saying?I have my theories on ancient Earth,that being we are aliens........but that's another thread.

reply to post by jkrog08


"Where?Can you link some sources?"

Just Google 'ancient robots' and you'll find plenty of interesting information. Even the Greeks (circa 500 BC) had primitive automatons that wouldn't be seen again until the renaissance nearly 1700 years later.
(Ancient robots is another thread - but it sure is interesting.)

Have you read the latest translation of the Mahaberrata? - it has unmanned aircraft, missiles, radiation poisoning, the works ;-)

Edit: Check my last post, I added stuff.

Oh, and the most famous Greek robotics expert was a god known as Hephaestus (who could have just been a Human from a more technologically advanced society). He made servants and even a war-machine known as Thalos
(Thalos had an all-metal body. There was a single 'artery' running from top to toe of his body. The artery was plugged with a “copper nail.” The copper giant patrolled the island, and kept the enemy ships at bay by throwing rocks at them. He was also a mouthpiece of Minos, a king of Crete. The robot began throwing “red flame” around him after an enemy invaded Crete.... Gort anyone?)

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Yea I have heard the stories of Colbalt bombs and such.Anyways I am about to go research something to add to this thread,as I don't want to veer off to much.I would like to hear your theories about ancient civs,u2u me if you want.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Have you heard of "Greek Fire",apparently we still can't reproduce it today.I know it was only like Naplam,but that was a long time ago.Point is that the skeptics argue these "primitive"people didn't know what they were drawing,well I think they did.I don't think they were gods or spirits.Also there is supposed countless loss technologies and accounts lost from when the Library at Alexandria was burned.Among them some type of "light magnifying device" that was rumored to be able to burn holes through ships.

reply to post by doorbell412


Ha,that actually sounds kinda creepy,I don't think I'd do that.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

As an Example I give you the Vimana - from the Mahabharata, which has been interpreted as being a flying craft utilized by a highly developed civilization that existed several millennia ago and during a period whose records have some conventional researchers interpreting the data as being mythology.....

*I'm sure Mikesingh would disagree with the 'conventional' assessment of the various Vimana craft that are documented in India's ancient histories as being 'mythologies'...

Nope! I consider all the Vimanas in Indian mythology to be completely conventional. Check out my post here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

However, I would hasten to add that it is likely that the technology had an ET influence. It could have been passed down to them. But as I mentioned, Vimanas aren't alien craft! Needless to say, some of the craft described were Extraterrestrial in which the 'Gods' traveled. Vimanas were conventional craft used by opposing forces during battle.

Cheers!

[edit on 9-4-2009 by mikesingh]

reply to post by mikesingh


What time zone are you in?Your always posting in the early morning where I'm at,lol.So are you saying that these craft were man made,without the help of ETs?

reply to post by mikesingh


" I consider all the Vimanas in Indian mythology to be completely conventional. Check out my post here... "

That's what I meant ;-)
(as in - they did exist, and were not mythological... my bad for not wording it right)

*I starred that post you linked to - very nice.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by mikesingh

 

What time zone are you in?Your always posting in the early morning where I'm at,lol.So are you saying that these craft were man made,without the help of ETs?

Time zone - IST!

I'm saying these were man made but probably had an ET influence. Impossible to verify though. But considering the time line when these craft were described, I find it hard to imagine that they had invented and discovered such advanced technology on their own. Must have been some ET influence. After all they have described 'Gods' (ETs?) traveling in craft between dimensions!

For those who haven’t heard of the greatest Indian epic, the Mahabharata, here’s a small primer. This is an epic written in Sanskrit more than 2000 years ago (Some mention 10,000 years ago) which describes the technology of those bygone eras.

At the time of the complete literal English translation, between the years 1886-1890, no aircraft ever flew and missiles were unheard of.

This is an extract of the text from Volume III, Vana Parva, Section XLII (42), with images of what the author could have been possibly trying to describe.


Vaicampayana said: After the Lokopalas had gone away,
Arjuna - that slayer of all foes - began to think,
O monarch, of the car of Indra!
And as Gudakeça gifted with great intelligence was thinking of it,
the car endued with great effulgence and guided by Matali,
came dividing the clouds and illuminating the firmament
and filling the entire welkin with its rattle
deep as the roar of mighty masses of clouds.


Swords, and miscrias of terrible forms,
and maces of frightful description,
and winged darts of celestial splendor


and lightnings of the brightest effulgence,
and thunderbolts

Now figure that out!

Cheers!

Courtesy: Holger Isenberg


[edit on 9-4-2009 by mikesingh]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Good stuff and I agree. The story of the Vimanas is called myth because some ASSUME that it has to be.

Here's some passages.

"The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial and excellent car going everywhere at will .... that car resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent car at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"

"Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendour. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas."

"The privilege of operating a flying machine is great. The knowledge of flight is among the most ancient of our inheritances. A gift from 'those from upon high'. We received it from them as a means of saving many lives."

www.crystalinks.com...

I think it's ashame that we throw away ancient knowledge because of a pre-existing belief that says these things have to be myths.

Indigo Child has an interesting post about a a spectrometer and material that can't be detected by radar that was manufactured based on ancient texts. This was in a peer-reviewed journal in India.

www.insa.ac.in...

I think we could learn alot from the ancients if we wouldn't dismiss all these stories as myth that do not fit a preconcieved worldview.

reply to post by mikesingh


Good post,I wasn't aware of that epic but I am aware of the "Star Wars" like "Epic of Gilgamesh".There are A LOT of "stories" of ancient "Star War" like battles,I highly doubt they are myth,since they describe now current technology(well some,others we still have to invent!).

By the way:IST?What is that?(forgive the ignorance)

[edit on 4/9/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by platosallegory

I think we could learn alot from the ancients if we wouldn't dismiss all these stories as myth that do not fit a preconcieved worldview.

Agreed,also I think the key to finding the truth about ETs may lie within our ancient past.