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Quantum setback for Warp Drive

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posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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Bad news I'm afraid -- it looks as if faster-than-light travel isn't possible after all. That's the conclusion of a new study into how warp drives would behave when quantum mechanics is taken into account. "Warp drives would become rapidly unstable once superluminal speeds are reached," say Stefano Finazzi at the International School for Advanced Studies in Trieste, Italy, and a couple of friends.

www.technologyreview.com...


I tend to agree with this article that the Alcubierre drive does not seem feasible or practical, but I disagree that this means "faster-than-light travel isn't possible afterall". This only means that warp drive isn't feasible (as far as we know).

I myself have never been a big fan of warp drive concepts. The energy requirements are enormous and we really haven't got a clue on how warping space would work.

I don't expect us to go from chemical rockets to interstellar propulsion systems for at least another century. We are likely still at the very tip of the iceberg when it comes to things we know about nature.

Besides, our space program is only 50 years old and our species has only had technology for a couple hundred years. We are possibly getting ahead of ourselves if we think we'll discover the secret of interstellar travel within a few years.




posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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That's what the warp core containment shield is for.

Will contain the breach nicely!



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Travelling at faster than light speeds is very possible. You see, light is in one form in this physical reality, but other realities exist where physics are different, so it's very possible that other kinds of "light" exist elsewhere...



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Our Species has only had technology for a couple of centuries? Surely the wheel counts as technology? Give the romans, greeks, egyptians and sumerians their dues at least.


Other than this pedantic little burst of mine, good post man, i've often wondered about bending space (and as a result, time?) as a means of travelling massive distances. I reckon aliens have the means, but its totally beyond our wee human minds to figure!



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by purehughness
Our Species has only had technology for a couple of centuries? Surely the wheel counts as technology? Give the romans, greeks, egyptians and sumerians their dues at least.


Don't get me wrong, I do. I meant technology as in electric generators, the clock, the motor, etc. In the last 100 years our technology has advanced exponentially.


Other than this pedantic little burst of mine, good post man, i've often wondered about bending space (and as a result, time?) as a means of travelling massive distances. I reckon aliens have the means, but its totally beyond our wee human minds to figure!


I think we need a new approach. I don't think linear travel seems feasible since it requires so much fuel and energy. I think the best way to travel among the stars is if some kind of loophole existed in nature that allowed you to travel from point A to point B without going in a straight line. A wormhole would be an example of this. It's just speculation, but in its current stage, interstellar propulsion is mostly just speculation and conjecture anyway.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
That's what the warp core containment shield is for.
Will contain the breach nicely!


The man has a point and this is also why UFOs exceeding the speed of sound don't make sonic booms. It's all about the bubble you are in and how that bubble interacts with the matter that surrounds it...maybe


On a more serious note, I doubt anyone really knows enough to be able to conclusively say either is true just yet. I do commend them for trying, though.

If the universe is really as old as and has the same temporal properties the plasma cosmology model surmises, then time and distance are not constant and can be manipulated, so then one could postulate that we simply don't know how to manipulate them in the necessary ways to achieve the effect of an FTL drive.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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Ah, with you now. Sorry dude.


Yeah, going from point A to B, by warping space so that A and B essentially connect, and through you jump, easy as pie. I so wish i could theorise a means to bring the two points together without seriously screwing up the fabric of the universe!



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by purehughness
Ah, with you now. Sorry dude.


Yeah, going from point A to B, by warping space so that A and B essentially connect, and through you jump, easy as pie. I so wish i could theorise a means to bring the two points together without seriously screwing up the fabric of the universe!


This might be a way how, although I'm not a physicist and I couldn't tell you the validity of this proposal.

lunahelia.com...


The field resonance system will bring stellar and galactic travel out of the realm of science fiction. The field resonance system artificially generates an energy pattern which precisely matches or resonates with a virtual pattern associated with a distant space-time point. According to the model, if a fundamental or precise resonance is established (using hydromagnetic wave fine-tuning techniques), the spacecraft will be very strongly and equally repelled by surrounding virtual patterns. At the same time, through the virtual many-dimensional structure of space-time, a very strong attraction with the virtual pattern of a distant space-time point will exist. The model predicts that this combination of very strong forces will result in the translocation of the spacecraft from its initial position through the many-dimensional virtual structure to the distant space-time point.


Since this was published in the 80's, I will go ahead and guess that it did not get enough attention for experimentation or experimentation was done and found to be not feasible. I couldn't answer that truthfully since this is the only paper I've seen on this concept.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by GeeGee
 


Assuming S/T has a virtual nature.

Then there is T/S on the other side of the wormhole, three dimensions of time and one of space. And the 5D component, which allows time to be altogether skipped.

So that is two right there.

And don't forget the Machian. A "polarized" inertial space (in theory) would allow FTL in excess of 30 Giga Gs. Such a ship could navigate the known universe in a day.

I feel as though these fellows are somewhat correct when viewed in the context of "bubbles".



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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It seems possible but really distant in the future.
You need:
-infinite energy to generate super massive gravitational fields
-a local map of the universe
-a spaceship that can "drive" or jump without destroying itself
Good luck



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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I think the universe is comprised of certain laws and when broken, there are repercussions. This is not to say that a desired repercussion cannot be back-engineered to find the cause.

I have a feeling that the infinite energy requirement can either be met by translating said energy in some way from natural sources. I mean, can you imagine if we could figure out how to surf the earth's electromagnetic field and ride the lay lines?

Electro/Magneto/Gravitic drives have to be possible...they HAVE to be. We know how electromagnetic fields can supersede gravitational fields and that the electromagnetic force is far more influential than gravity. If we could somehow tap into it, we may be golden.

Something more along the lines of a conduit rather than a collector might be the best way to do it because it would have to run efficiently and generally speaking, when you start trying to store massive amounts of energy, things tend to get hot and dangerous. Then again, we also know that the atom stores quite a bit of energy, but drinking from a fire hose isn't exactly practical.

Remember how often the best solutions are the simplest and if we keep looking to nature for solutions, the right interpretations will yield answers...sorta like the recent vortex induced vibration harvesting generators that make use of a natural fluid dynamic that schools of fish also take advantage of.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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There could be no better power source for intergalactic travel, than packing up a star and using that for the propulsion system.

All the comforts of home and in a convenient take out package.

It might not reach the speed of light, but it would sure be powerful. You could push a ship for a very long time and distance, and who cares that it is not as fast as light.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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If you convert what ever you want to move from one location to the next into energy before the trip you do not need a very large space warp.

If you warp space you do not need to move faster than light, you just need to get what ever your trying to move from one end of the warp to the other which could be flat...take a baloon and press into it from two sides till your fingers touch. That is a warp. The trip could be the distance between your two fingers when they touch.

It is highly unlikely that we will be moving matter through space at faster than light speed or even close to light speed without converting the matter to energy.

If we can warp space then we wont need to move all that fast. It occured to me when reading about Ronald Mallett's theories on using laser light to cause a warp in space (for time travel). I wondered if this could be used to pull a space ship through space at near light speed even if it does not create time travel.

Simply project your lasers in from of the ship which possibly could cause a warp and a gravity pull. The lasers would continualy remain ahead of the ship thus the warp or pull would always be in front pulling the ship in the direction you point them in. The strenght of the gravity would determine how fast your ship would accelerate to light or near light speed.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Xeven
It is highly unlikely that we will be moving matter through space at faster than light speed or even close to light speed without converting the matter to energy.


That sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I would have to agree.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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Ah, with you now. Sorry dude.


Yeah, going from point A to B, by warping space so that A and B essentially connect, and through you jump, easy as pie. I so wish i could theorise a means to bring the two points together without seriously screwing up the fabric of the universe!


Looks like we need some outside help.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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Exactly.
Many advancements in science were simply ways to get around the rules.

If speed is an issue, then we'll just have to mess with the factors that make up speed; distance and time.


It's no big deal really. Or at least it won't be once we've figured out how to do it. One day, I'm sure our race will look back on the light speed problem and laugh, thinking of it as ridiculous as the sound barrier problem we faced before.


Nothings impossible.
We just haven't figured out how to break all the rules yet.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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Unfortunately, the sound barrier was not a problem. There was never any theory stating we couldn't go faster than sound.

Now, however, there is very good theory that says FTL travel is impossible.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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I'm very certain that speeds faster than light can be achieved. The big bang was said to have expanded the universe to nearly it's current size in a matter of seconds. Sure, this cosmic inflation required some incredible force to expand it, but we're just talking about just propelling a small craft through space. If it occurs in nature, then I really think it can be researched and recreated on a smaller scale.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by science lol
Unfortunately, the sound barrier was not a problem. There was never any theory stating we couldn't go faster than sound.

Now, however, there is very good theory that says FTL travel is impossible.


Well it was a problem then because of those who denied the possibility and the technological challenges it posed. It is very easy to look back now and say "it was so obvious and so different from the current day issues." That's called a hindsight bias.

But I do agree with you that it may turn out to be impossible to actually travel faster than light. However, I think that is the wrong approach for deep space/interstellar travel. A tiny meteorite in space could cut through a stationary craft's hull like tissue paper. Imagine if you sent out a craft traveling at the speed of light. It would get torn to pieces!

Then, there is also the issue of manned exploration. Assuming we do figure a way to literally travel faster than light, it is doubtful that solution would also come with an answer to the issue of inertia. And don't forget causality. Traveling faster than light is equivalent to traveling back in time, which poses some interesting questions about paradoxes.

So, I don't think brute force and the entire energy output of stars or even a galaxy is the most productive way to think about this. That's just my opinion, though.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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I disagree with the article part that said a "quantum breakdown at superluminal speed".WHY?Well because in a "warp drive" you are not actually moving,you are simply moving space around you.So there is no "superluminal speed and quantum breakdowns".You only get the spatial(distance covered times time) effect of traveling FTL,not the relativistic and quantum effects.Also I don't know why quantum processes would break down since quantum entanglement seems to work fine at FTL speeds.



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