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Karzai risks support of NATO allies: Harper

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posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Karzai risks support of NATO allies: Harper


www.theglobeandmail.com

STRASBOURG, France — Hamid Karzai risks losing popular support from NATO allies trying to rebuild his country if he doesn't resist laws that undermine the rights of his people, Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned Saturday.

Mr. Harper made his remarks at a wrap-up news conference at the 60th anniversary summit of NATO, where the issue of an Afghan law that would allow men to force sex on their wives has triggered controversy. That law, which Mr. Karzai says he has now sent back to the justice ministry to review, would allow men to force their wives to engage in sex if they haven't done so within the previous four days.

While he stopped short of laying out consequences, Mr. Harper said the sorts of measures being considered by Mr. Karzai threaten to erode positive sentiment for the mission.

“The involvement of the international community, particularly Canada and our NATO allies, is based on the pursuit of very fundamental values, in opposition to the values that The Taliban stood for,” he said. “And if we drift from that, there will be a clear diminishment in allied support for this venture.”

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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A good sign that Nato isn't gonna stand for business as usual in Afganistan. If you want international help, you better be prepared to meet international standards on human rights. Making laws that allow men to rape their wives isn't gonna fly in the west.

Hopefully nato pressure puts the kibosh on this law.

www.theglobeandmail.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Obama and NATO pressure Karzai over law on women




STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama piled pressure on Afghan leader Hamid Karzai on Saturday to scrap an "abhorrent" law which critics say would legalise marital rape.

Source

Obama has now weighed in on the matter. I'm sure more will follow.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Harper raises stakes over rape law




Prime Minister Stephen Harper dramatically raised the stakes Saturday in the battle over women's rights in Afghanistan, warning President Hamid Karzai that critical allied support for the mission could shrivel if he doesn't change a law that many say would legally allow men to rape their wives.

Source

And the pressure mounts. Who thinks Karzai's going to change the law?



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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I'll be surprised if he doesn't. The support of NATO right now is much more important than the Shia support this law was meant to garner.

I know at least here in Eastern Canada, there has been a lot of anger about this law.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:30 AM
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I don't think that NATO is talking about pulling out the troops if they don't change the law. All that's going to happen is they won't support Karzai anymore so he'll be gone in one way or another, probably assassination. Karzai knows this so he will comply, I believe. If not, they'll find someone who will.

But the troops will stay, no matter what.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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America wanted to spread democracy? Here it is folks.

Karzai's up for re-election and to garner the support of certain hardline demographics in Afghanistan he's enacting strict laws that pander to their interpretations of Islam.

It's not enough America has a puppet government installed in Kabul, but Karzai is now blamed for doing what every American presidential candidate does? Pandering to their base.

As I've said numerous times Karzai is another Saddam Hussein, Manual Noriega or Shah of Iran waiting to happen.

All American backed and installed, dictators and despots who eventually turned against their overlords and started disobeying orders from Washington, turning a once staunch Ally into a arch-nemesis of the United States, which later only served to destabilise the neighbouring region.

This guy needs to be booted from Office pronto and the Afghan people need to be given real, bi-partisan and UNRIGGED elections where they can elect someone who truly represents them, instead of this drug-smuggling, hopelessly ineffective puppet who's just a front for Afghanistan's drug trade and takes bribes from the Taliban in exchange for concessions in territory.

[edit on 5/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
America wanted to spread democracy? Here it is folks.

It's not enough America has a puppet government installed in Kabul, but Karzai is now blamed for doing what every American presidential candidate does? Pandering to their base.


Thats a brilliant observation, one I've never made myself. Star for you.


Very hypocritical yes, but this law is no good however you look at. If it means sticking our noses into some one elses business, under these circumstances I think its reasonable.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by FreeSpeaker]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
America wanted to spread democracy? Here it is folks.

...It's not enough America has a puppet government installed in Kabul, but Karzai is now blamed for doing what every American presidential candidate does? Pandering to their base.


The Taliban are winning. The Russians couldn't budge the muhajadeen. What makes anybody think the West can...and we play much nicer than the Russians did.

The war is unpopular in Canada as more and more coffins go down that Highway of Heroes. Also, with all this 'global recession' going on, everybody is asking why their money is going to support this war.

Steve is looking for a way out that gives him the high road. Even though Steve would sell his mother to the Taliban to stay in power, he also knows that if Iggy spins this the right way, it becomes "Steve supports raping muslims" on the front page of the Star.

This could be his way out of this whole mess.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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NATO leaders blast Afghan 'rape' law



French President Nicolas Sarkozy said his country "will not compromise" in the fight to uphold human rights in Afghanistan, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for Afghan President Hamid Karzai to withdraw the law outright.

Source

With this much pressure, its only a matter of time before Karzai is forced to change this law. Its nice to see our leaders actually accomplish something worthy for once.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
With this much pressure, its only a matter of time before Karzai is forced to change this law. Its nice to see our leaders actually accomplish something worthy for once.


Its nice to see them all taking a stand against it. I still find it sickening that we are wasting billions and countless young lives for them to turn around and try and pass this garbage. We can't get out of that mess soon enough.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by TRUSTno0NE
 



I still find it sickening that we are wasting billions and countless young lives for them to turn around and try and pass this garbage.


And who put this backstabbing, Taliban-sympathising, ineffective leader into power do you think?

The fault here lies with the US ultimately and no one else.

Karzai has long established connections with US Oil and Petroleum interests, he used to be a consultant for Unocal (Union Oil Company of California):

Cool and worldly, Karzai is a former employee of US oil company Unocal – one of two main oil companies that was bidding for the lucrative contract to build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan to seaports in Pakistan

www.csmonitor.com...

When you look at it this way, it's quite obvious why the US chose him to run Afghanistan.
Not because of his managerial skills but because of his unequivocal support of the proposed Oil pipeline, most of which would go through of Afghanistan, and his acceptance of US contractors to build most of it and run it.

Again Oil and the bottom line come into play here.

Karzai was one of the very first supporters and backers of the Taliban in the 1980's and even raising money for their actions against the Soviets:


On Aug. 20, 1998, the day the United States sent cruise missiles to kill Osama bin Laden, Karzai told The Post that "there were many wonderful people in the Taliban."

www.washingtonpost.com...

Karzai is simply a front for the real people who run Kabul and most of Afghanistan, the US knew this but they also knew no sane, patriotic Afghani would allow the US to simply rape their country of it's precious natural resource, APART from Karzai.

[edit on 5/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


What do you do when the elections you organise and validate , produce a mandate from the voters, to enact an interpretation of Islam that is not to your liking ?

Install a war-lord / political exile ...... and hope he does n `t turn rogue ?

No one seems bothered about what be the outcome 20 years ahead , its 4 year election cycles and no more.
------------------------------------

I look anew on a lot of cultural practices , where once i saw diversity , i now see some pretty abhorant acts IMHO.

And i imagine cultures looking back at our society , also see practices which disgust them .

It is clear that religious dogma has us tethered to an archaic world-view, lacking the dynamism to evolve with the ever increasing social complexity of modern man.
The zeitgeist shifts ~ with the dogma dragging in its wake.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Karzai bows to international calls to scrap Afghan 'rape' law



Afghanistan is to review legislation which the UN says would legalise rape within marriage after a dramatic reversal from the president, Hamid Karzai, who signed the rules into law last month.


Karzai has bowed to intense international pressure to scrap the law, described by the UN human rights chief in Afghanistan as "reminiscent of the decrees made by the Taliban regime".

Source

Well that was fast.

Our leaders have worked together and accomplished something to be proud of. What a day for humanity.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 



Our leaders have worked together and accomplished something to be proud of. What a day for humanity.


Don't pop the champagne just yet buddy.


"I made it absolutely clear to the president that we could not tolerate that situation. You cannot have British troops fighting, and in some cases dying, to save a democracy where that democracy is infringing human rights.

"[Karzai] responded by saying this law would not be enacted in the way it has been presented."


In other words, Karzai's going to make sure his Taliban buddies whom he represents still get their legal right to practice Sharia Law, it'll just be unwritten law, which governs so much of Afghanistan's culture.

The Coalition isn't capable of policing every rural village and backwater province to ensure this law hasn't been put into effect unconstitutionally.

Even if Karzai publically denounces it, like I said, he's still bound to his loyalties of his former Taliban friends.


The Afghan president was accused of backing the law to win support from hardliners ahead of the presidential election.


That's a surprise! Couldn't have guessed that.


"We still have time to review it because the law is not yet finalised until it is printed in the official gazette. Once we get everyone around a table we can see what needs to be done." He did not give a date for when the review might be completed.


Karzai's determined to stay in office, one way or another.

Considering this guy runs drug smuggling operations through his brother, while Coalition forces are trying to stamp out Opium production, who knows how far he's willing to go to float this law to gain votes.

Karzai's got balls, I'll give him that. This defiance has all the makings of another former-US ally turned arch-rival, like Saddam before him.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

In other words, Karzai's going to make sure his Taliban buddies whom he represents still get their legal right to practice Sharia Law, it'll just be unwritten law, which governs so much of Afghanistan's culture.

The Coalition isn't capable of policing every rural village and backwater province to ensure this law hasn't been put into effect unconstitutionally.

Even if Karzai publically denounces it, like I said, he's still bound to his loyalties of his former Taliban friends.


I believe you are right on the money. It will be like the UK where the women can now "decide" they rather be judged by Sharia Law than UK law. Like the women aren't scared to death of their husbands, as if they will choose anything but what their husband tells them to.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


What do you do when the elections you organise and validate , produce a mandate from the voters, to enact an interpretation of Islam that is not to your liking ?


If you work it like Gaza, you simply pretend it never happened.



posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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Canada expects Afghan family law will be changed, ministers say



"We expect the law to be changed [and] certainly not the provisions that concern us to be enacted," Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Peter Kent said in an interview with CBC News: Sunday


"Canada has made it clear that it expects Afghanistan to fulfill its international treaty obligations, particularly with respect to human rights and the rights of women and girls," Kent said.

Source

Although they say its premature to discuss consiquences, this war isn't very popular in Canada right now and failure to change this law could result in even a greater loss of support from the Canadian public.

Canada has been in the front of this conflict for quite awhile and their tolerence for this kind of breach of human rights isn't likely to be high.



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