Outcry over girl flogged by Taliban in Swat valley

Outcry over girl flogged by Taliban in Swat valley

www.guardian.co.uk

The Pakistani government has ordered an inquiry into the flogging of a 17-year-old girl by Taliban militants in the troubled Swat valley, after public outrage triggered by a shocking video footage of the punishment. The images, played yesterday on private television channels, showed a burka-clad woman being pinned to the ground by two men while a third whips her backside 34 times. The woman is seen screaming and begging for mercy as a crowd of largely silent men look on.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I think that this is a good sign for Pakistan, in that the people are outraged by this level or religious extremism. The world needs to unite against this type of religious extremism, and that includes the Muslim world.

It is finally starting to look like the world is beginning to shrink for religious extremists who have expanded their operations so much over the last 8 years. Maybe this is a sign of the beginning of the end of persecution in the name of God. We need more public outcry in the Muslim world against these types of barbaric attacks. I hope we get more news coverage of this. I am surprised no one else posted this article, but I guess everyone is still abuzz about the G20 summit, so this was over looked. Too bad.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by poet1b

The world needs to unite against this type of religious extremism, and that includes the Muslim world.

Who's says they're not?

www.muhajabah.com...

That link contains over 100 articles of Muslims and Muslim organisations and scholars condemning everything from 9/11, Bin Laden, Jihad, Sharia Law and radical elements with the Islamic community.

Muslims condemn extremism all the time, it just never makes a story on your favourite 6 o'clock news programmes because it not within the mainstream media's interests to promote positive stories about Islam in general.

Not when Republican conservatives like Rupert Murdoch control most of the free press in the United States with an iron fist, and only allow their perspectives to pushed, while ignoring anything non-conservative and therefore "traitorous".

Maybe this is a sign of the beginning of the end of persecution in the name of God.

Not as long as every organised religion in the world, including Christianity, Islam and Judaism admonish followers of other religions as being "infidels" and condem them to hell.

[edit on 4/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Don't give me the usual nonsense about Muslims never speaking out against Islamic Fundamentalism, because it's just an outright lie:

The American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC), today condemned the apparent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured.

The AMPCC statement read in part:

"American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

www.islamicity.com...

The Koran specified a grisly punishment for those who destroy themselves, said Zaki Badawi, principal of the Muslim College, in London.

"God will punish him by making him commit the same act of suicide, the same cycle of torture, on the day of judgment," Dr. Badawi said. "If he kills himself with a dagger, his punishment is to sink the dagger in his heart again and again."

www.themodernreligion.com...

Whoever is responsible for these dreadful, wanton attacks, we condemn them utterly. These are senseless and evil acts that appal all people of conscience. The MCB stands shoulder to shoulder with remarks made by our Prime Minister Tony Blair.

www.muslimnews.co.uk...

Muslims Against Terrorism (MAT):
“As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam.”

Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt:
“We strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. We condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world.” (Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 13 - 19 September 2001)

Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt: “Attacking innocent people is not courageous; it is stupid and will be punished on the Day of Judgment.... It is not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom; it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.” (Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001)

Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, Head of the Directorate of Religious Affairs of Turkey:
“Any human being, regardless of his ethnic and religious origin, will never think of carrying out such a violent, evil attack. Whatever its purpose is, this action cannot be justified and tolerated.” (September 21, 2001)

Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i, Supreme jurist-ruler of Iran:
“Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons…. carried out by any organization, country or individual is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington. (Islamic Republic News Agency, September 16, 2001.

Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar), Turkey:
“Islam does not encourage any kind of terrorism; in fact, it denounces it. Those who use terrorism in the name of Islam, in fact, have no other faculty except ignorance and hatred.”

Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi, U.S:
The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the barbarism perpetrated by a few people. Islam, which is a religion of peace and tolerance, condemns this act and sees this is as a wounding scar on the face of humanity. I appeal to Muslims to strongly condemn this act, express unity with the victims' relatives, donate blood, money and do whatever it takes to help the affected people.

Abdal-Hakim Murad, Britain:
Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Qur'anic ethos that the Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures. ("The Hijackers Were Not Muslims After All: Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists,"

www.muslimnews.co.uk...

Those views have horrified ordinary Muslims in the UK, said the spokesman for the Muslim Council for Britain, Inayat Bunglawala.

"These men are totally unrepresentative of British Muslims," he told BBC News Online.

"They have no grassroots support and could only muster a few hundred supporters out of a Muslim community of over two million in the UK.

"We must put them and their supporters into context. There are 800 mosques in Britain, which gives you an indication of how small their support is."

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Holy Qur'an warns: "Whoever killed a person not in retaliation of murder or in spreading mischief in the land it would be as if he killed all mankind and if anyone saved one life it would be as if he saved all mankind" (Qur'an 5: 32). Prophet Muhammad said "Whoever hurts a dhimee (a Jew or a Christian protected by Islamic state) he would be like hurting me and who hurts me, he hurts God."

community.seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

Muslims condemn extremism all the time, it just never makes a story on your favourite 6 o'clock news programmes because it not within the mainstream media's interests to promote positive stories about Islam in general.

This could be very true, but what we are dealing with is 1.5 billion Muslims, and so even if let’s say 20% were radical that is 30 million people willing to go to any limit for their cause. Also a large percentage of Muslim who are not radical still favor the radical view more than a moderate view. You can call it either custom or religious based, but there is a lot of extremism throughout the Muslim world.

As example we could say the Branch Davidians were a extremist Christian based group, but instead of 1 camp in Texas what if there were 1000s across the US, and all connected. Well, Christianity as a whole would take a hit since this would be a nationwide threat. We see today that Muslim extremists are a worldwide threat and even though we can say there are 1 billion nonviolent Muslims in the world it doesn’t reduce that threat one bit.

Honestly, I think the world is tired of radicalism, whatever the flavor. It is a shame that people ake things to an extreme. However, that has been the case for centuries (Refer to the Inquistion and the "Witch hunt.")

the taliban will do as they please, as long as the people support them. the people of that region agree with this or it would have been done away with along time ago. the people need to fight back against this barbarism, or it will not change. these men should be put in large cages with bars, so that civilized people can no longer be harmed by these animals.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Thanks for contributing. It would be nice if we had more articles like this, especially more recent articles.

We need more people in the Muslim community speaking out against the oppression of women in the Muslim world. We also need more Muslim voices speaking up for the integration of the cultures, looking to find common ground.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Well, only a very tiny percent of Americans are imperialists. Unfortunately, that tiny percent seems to hold a great deal of power in our country. I suspect among the Islamic population they have the same problem. Those people who lust for power over their fellow human beings gravitate towards positions where they are able to obtain power.

How do we keep people who long for power away from positions of power?

reply to post by poet1b


In direct relation to your story:

Pakistan's top judge has ordered a court hearing into the public flogging of a veiled woman, filmed on an amateur video, that has raised alarm about the tightening grip of Islamist hardliners....

"Chief justice of Pakistan has been pleased to order that... the matter be fixed before a larger bench on Monday," said a statement from the court.

"Chaudhry has taken a serious notice of the video clipping on TV for violation of fundamental rights, guaranteed under the constitution of Pakistan," it added in English.

www.google.com...

There's outcry and protest to the actions of radicals all the time.

It's goes unnoticed largely by the public because the mainstream media wants to present a poignantly negative image of Islam around the world, in direct support of powerful conservatives interests that control the media like Rupert Murdoch, the Rothschilds and so on.

We also need more Muslim voices speaking up for the integration of the cultures, looking to find common ground.

Why does it only fall upon the Muslim Community to deliberate about integration?

They don't control the government last time I checked.

Plenty of Christian, American voices need to be heard on this issue to as there's a growing minority in the United States particularly, completely opposed to the idea of Muslim immigration at all.

reply to post by jimmyx

the taliban will do as they please, as long as the people support them. the people of that region agree with this or it would have been done away with along time ago.

The people are never given a choice. Sheesh.

You think the Taliban holds elections and referendums on critical social issues? Who do they think they are?

They forcefully impose their strict Sharia interpretations over people whether they like it or not and anyone that speaks up about it killed outright.

The people are never given a chance to protest, so stop pretending it's their fault.

Originally posted by poet1b
Maybe this is a sign of the beginning of the end of persecution in the name of God.

Not realy - the Pakistan government still has the death penaly for 'blasphemy'.

How insecure can you get?

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A Pakistani man was sentenced to death for blasphemy on Wednesday after he defiled the Muslim holy book and used derogatory language to refer to the Prophet Mohammad, a police official said."

www.reuters.com...

From thread:
www.belowtopsecret.com...

reply to post by karl 12


Might want to go over that source a bit more carefully:

Convictions for blasphemy are fairly common in predominantly Muslim Pakistan, with most cases involving members of religious minorities, but death sentences have never been carried out usually because convictions are thrown out on a lack of evidence.

"He can appeal the court decision."

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan has long demanded he repeal of the blasphemy law which, it says, is misused against religious minorities such as Christians.

This will probably end up being overturned on a lack of evidence and thrown out like a good majority of these "blasphemy convictions".

Yesh the good old religion of peace.
At it again.
What can you say.
What a brutal sick cult.

It doesn't just fall on Muslim communities, but only Muslims can reform their own community. The only thing non-Muslim communities can do at this point is to start doing a better job of defining what it would take for the various groups to live in peace. It isn't just the U.S. against Islam, or Christianity against Islam, it is the world against Islam. Atheism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and the New Age religions are getting along well. It is only Islam that is having problems with everyone else. This is something that the Muslim community needs to start recognizing.

I think the world recognizes that moderate Muslims seem to be held hostage by the extremists. The problem is that whenever outside influences start to work to break the control of the extremists, they get blamed for interfering in the affairs of others. Therefore, the only way the Muslim community can expect to reform, is to open up to outside influence. The change has to start from within the Muslim community.

Originally posted by poet1b


I think that this is a good sign for Pakistan, in that the people are outraged by this level or religious extremism. The world needs to unite against this type of religious extremism, and that includes the Muslim world.

It is finally starting to look like the world is beginning to shrink for religious extremists who have expanded their operations so much over the last 8 years. Maybe this is a sign of the beginning of the end of persecution in the name of God. We need more public outcry in the Muslim world against these types of barbaric attacks. I hope we get more news coverage of this. I am surprised no one else posted this article, but I guess everyone is still abuzz about the G20 summit, so this was over looked. Too bad.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

You again. Well what can I say, I have already discussed this issue with you before. Just like all your other comments relating Islam and Islamic punishments you never post what the punishment is' for'. What did she do. Does that smell like propaganda or is it just me.

A punishment is a punishment, no punishment can be justified without reason. Punishments are set for a reason, the reason is what justifies it, not your emotions, get it? Or do we have to do another long, long discussion without any outcomes.

The point is you don't mix your emotions with punishments if you do you should be the first one to call for the ban of the prison system. But ofcurse you don't support that, or do you?

Im sorry, but this is not a punishment.
This is sick cruel brutal violence.
Did God tell this old pervert to do this?
Why would he need this sick old abuser to do his work for him?
There is no logic there.
When I watch these sick twisted old fools.
Hurting young girls like this, and then I see an A10 warthog blow them to pieces.
I can understand that what goes around really does come around.

Ownification

The article gives the reason for the punishment, I provided the link. Actually, I meant to put the reason in the quote, but it exceeded the character limit.

She was beaten for having some level of sexual relations with someone, which wasn't exactly explained.

SO, you think it is alright to beat a girl for doing what she wants to do with her body? You think you have the right to control other people's sex lives?

Originally posted by poet1b
Ownification

The article gives the reason for the punishment, I provided the link. Actually, I meant to put the reason in the quote, but it exceeded the character limit.

She was beaten for having some level of sexual relations with someone, which wasn't exactly explained.

SO, you think it is alright to beat a girl for doing what she wants to do with her body? You think you have the right to control other people's sex lives?

Yes like I haven't created a thread before. I know the limit, I have been in ATS for a while now and I know how you operate.

SO, you think it is alright to beat a girl for doing what she wants to do with her body? You think you have the right to control other people's sex lives?

ummm they still don't let me go outside naked in New Zealand I wonder why. It is my body so why am I not allowed to do what ever I want with it? I want no cloths. Why will they continually arrest me. Once again a law is a law, mix emotions with it then you fall in to a madening ditch.

The woman was beaten because she was seen with a man who was not a relative or spouse.

It may be a 'law' but it is still a rights violation in my opinion. Like flogging a rape victim. They were also going around beating women who were not dressed to their standards in shopping centers. And although I don't want the man to go through this, why was the man not punished as well? After all, it's 'the law.'

I am also under the impression that this was not necessarily 'the law' of the country but simply 'the law' of this rogue group, which is why there is outcry from the public and the courts- because it was not technically legal.

She didn't even receive a trial. Yes, some 'law.'

And even if this happened by the books it still would be indefensible in my opinion. They are perverting their own texts to endorse violence against women.

ummm they still don't let me go outside naked in New Zealand I wonder why. It is my body so why am I not allowed to do what ever I want with it? I want no cloths.

Apples and oranges. To make this comparable to the woman's story, you would have had to:

1). Not have been caught red handed walking around naked but simply have been accused by one person on suspicion of being naked.

2). You did not receive a trial but on this alleged witness' testimony alone, you were dragged into the square, held down, and beaten.