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China Hates Us: How Much Longer Will They Back Our Debt-Ridden Economy?

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posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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China Hates Us: How Much Longer Will They Back Our Debt-Ridden Economy?


www.alternet.org

At worst, it could spell the end of America as a superpower and destroy the global economy as we know it. - It started with a joke, but quickly went viral everywhere from the South China Sea to the White House.

"We hate you guys," Luo Ping, director-general at the China Banking Regulatory Commission, wisecracked in New York last month, speaking of the U.S. habit of issuing trillions worth of the Treasury bills that China still considers safe havens. "Once you start issuing $1 trillion, $2 trillion ... we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys, but there is nothing much we can do."

That is, nothing much aside from flexing China's economic and military muscle, the latter of which it recently accomplished in the South China Sea when five Chinese vessels aggressively surrounded the USNS Impeccable, an unarmed surveillance ship spying in the internationally contested Spratly Islands.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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The tyrannical government of China is not backing our economy. They don't serve us, yet they expect us to serve them & even feel guilty as if we owe them money. Who cares how many "loans" were given to the Rothschild/Bauer family's private reserve-bank. That's their business!

We don't really own or owe anything, which foreign or domestic governments (rogue occult-governments) have loaned within their network of cronies.

We're not responsible for the occult-government or the problems they may have with their cronies in the wicked Chinese government. We're not apart of their society, therefore they treat us as if we're not worth of peace, prosperity, and freedom.

All of them want to keep us enslaved. Let's show them that we're independent, no matter how many of them want us to serve their one world occult-government. We owe them NOTHING. They print money for fun & games, while we work hard to earn what we need.

They'll stage wars over & over again, until they have enough people, who are willing to submit to them. They're not really in the business of war to kill each other. They just want to kill, rape, and dominate oppressed & weak civilians, as usual.

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 4-4-2009 by News And History]



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 01:57 AM
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China has stopped supporting us. That's why we are buying our own T-Bonds.
Just talk to these guys who know the truth.

FOMC

Buying our own T-bonds in the last chance we have to save ourselves. If it doesnt work, which it wont! We're screwed.





[edit on 4/4/2009 by Tentickles]



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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Still talk about the AIG money laundering scam? And T-notes, and financial insecurity ahead? I been avoiding the G20 thing for the most part, but thought they had this all worked out so economies would not collapse? But it's still a possibility?

Damn, I need to not start buying into their crap.

I agree with the OP. We did not cause this mess. We owe no one anything.

But, our corporations work for 'them'. So if we disobey, we do not get fed.


Definitely time to be independent. Just a shame our neighbors will probably still wish to kill us when their offspring are hungry, because the corporations stopped serving them....


I seem to disappear from ATS for a short time when everything starts to seem like a surreal joke. Anyone else?



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 02:42 AM
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Star and flag for this incredibly well-written and well-documented article. I enjoyed it so much I read it three times. I'll have to start frequenting alternet now.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by News And History
 


Do you really think they are still backing the economy because they feel they have some obligation? Besides the fact the economy is improving and is on the recovery (although its a very slow recovery and will take atleast two years to get out of this recession) Washington has plenty of dirt regarding Beijing... and likewise Beijing has plenty' of dirt about the US. Its alot like having nukes and aiming at one another.... nobody will fire because they know the othe will too and it will end up ugly. Its like they are at a complex gray standing which none prefer to step out of or else they are both.... well doomed.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 04:17 AM
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Don't get too worked up about China and don't believe this business that they are planning to ruin the US economy.

China is a disaster. Their economy is in far worse shape than ours. Their infrastructure is awful, starting with the fact that they can't not even supply potable water to their citizens, not the rich and certainly not the poor. The mast majority of Chinese are illiterate. There environment is among (if not the worst) in the world. The have certain instances of cancers several hundred times the global averages.

China is totally dependant on what other folks buy from them. While they do in fact make useful things that we do in fact need, an awful lot of what they make is irrelevant to our quality of life.

What you read about China is whay folks want you to read about China. Do some digging. Read about the education. Read about the economy - just do a bit of research on the Chinese silicon chip industry,which was supposed to be a marvel of the world - its a disaster. Notice how, while there was a brief spike in outsourcing to China, akin to India, it is now over due to their poor intellectual property protections and the graft and corruption. Firms are going straight past China to Vietnam, Poland, Singapore. Did you know that the entire investment industry went heavily into China in the latter 90's and early '00s. They began pulling out in the middle '00s and are pretty much gone now (think about that prior to to having the context of the recent economic crisis - that is when they pulled out). I'm in that business - they all pulled out because you can't make any money in China. One of the reasons you can't is because nobody has any! That and because of the absence of even marginal common law, massive corruption and a government that is about as efficient as a poorly run DMV. Oh they can really build facilities such as they did for the olympics. Easy to build things like that with forced labor on ground which used to be peoples homes and places of business that were simply razed and the folks sent packing with no assistance. In 20 years those facilities will be in ruins due to shoddy construction, substandard materials and poor maintenance - just like the rest of "Modern China".

China has never projected military power. They have never waged a war more than 200 miles off their shores (which is why they have not really done anything about Taiwan - they can't with confidence).

China needs the US far more than the US needs China. We have perverse partnership that was enabled by poor management of the US economy and our allowing them to buy more debt. The dirty little secret is that if the Chinese dumped the dollar it would be a disaster for the US, but the foundations of our society are strong. If the US stopped buying Chinese products, or even cut that purchasing by 50% it would likely result in civil unrest the likes of which you have never seen and an overthrow of the Chinese government. It is a peverse symbiotic relationship.

Think about the last time you saw a reasonably detailed and thoughtful but critical news clip in the MSM about China. It was a while - because they don't write them. I won't go into the reasons I think that to be the case in this post, but think about why that is.

China is a serious country and one that needs to be taken seriously. They do not hold the keys to America's future like the MSM want you to believe they do, nor the alternative media wish you to believe for different reasons.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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It's an exaggeration to say China "hates us" for one thing, yeah, we fought them in Korea, we also fought alongside them in WW2.

Mostly, they like us, and even more, they like our money in exchange for their products


I'm not very worried about China - they prop up our economy because it serves their own interests to do so.

They could pull the rug out from under us now but it's pretty clear they don't want to, otherwise we'd be screwed already...


I think China is very sensitive about national pride right now, and aware of historical injustices, but I am fairly confident if we don't mess with them, they won't mess with us.

After all, why should they, when our strong trade relationship is keeping BOTH of our economies afloat?



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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Better question:

How Much Longer until they "own" the U.S? Is all the land in the U.S.A. worth $10,000,000,000,000... hmmm pretty close. Do you really have to 'own' the people, if you already 'own' the land?

What is our 'equity' on these loans to the U.S. I wonder...

Owner: I own this land under the U.S.A. government laws...

China: U.S.A. is gone, under our law, we own this land...

My god, what if China(and other countries) decided they are tired of lending and are ready to collect? Foreclosure???

Disclaimer: I'm just a person trying to strike fear into the hearts of all Americans...



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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China has every right to hate our guts.

Do you know how sorely America is indebted to the Chinese? And the fact that we will probably never be able to repay our enormous loans from them in this lifetime?

If this were a case of some of two-bit, delusional businessman trying out risky ventures on AIG Bank loans and then running himself into the ground, no one would bat an eyelash.
Hell people would probably applaud the debt collectors.

But you replace BANK with CHINA and RISKY BUSINESSMAN with AMERICA, and suddenly it's the "bank's" fault our free-market, capitalist experiment gone overboard has landed us neck deep in the manure.


Sure, blame the good 'ol Communists, if it worked for 60 years before, it must still apply to today's world.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Exactly, they dont hate us too much. We buy 30% of their exports. The largest country to buy them by far. They will keep buying our debt because without our economy healthy and without the USA able to buy their exports their economy wouldnt be able to survive. Plus a lot of their own citizens also come here for their education and start businesses here. So they can hate us all they want but the fact of the matter is they need us as much as we need them, if not more. That is why there will never be a war, unless the USA starts it.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



Do you realize that we only owe then about 1 trillion dollars? Everyone thinks that they hold all of our debt, this is far from the case. Sure it is about 8% of our total debt and they are the largest debt holder, but it is still only about 8%.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by dragonking76
 


They dont even come close to owning the USA. In fact alot of our debt is owned by individuals who buy treasury securities. In fact just over half of our debt, 6.4 trillion, is held by the public. That includes individuals, states, corporations, and foreign governments. In fact only 30% of our debt is held by foreign countries, with China owning about 30% of that debt. So you see, China doesnt even come close to owning the USA.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by tide88
 



Do you realize that we only owe then about 1 trillion dollars? Everyone thinks that they hold all of our debt, this is far from the case. Sure it is about 8% of our total debt and they are the largest debt holder, but it is still only about 8%.


And your point is?

America owes China money. America needs to pay it. Full stop.

Oh so we ONLY owe them 1 trillion dollars, hence there's no need to be prompt in repaying our debts?

How long do you like to wait to pay back a loan? When they send debt collectors or when they take you to court?

You're not dealing with a local bank branch here, you do realise?

America owes 1 trillion dollars worth of Chinese state capital.
I think it's fair to say, there's a little urgency required in this matter.

If the situation was reversed, you people would probably be calling for sanctions on China.

[edit on 4/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


My point to you is they keep buying these treasuries. So they obviously think they will be paid back at some point. You said

You're not dealing with a local bank branch here, you do realise?
You're right. A local bank branch wouldnt keep lending someone money if they were not making payments on their current loans. And I do think we need to pay it back asap, at the very least start to pay it down. I think it is bad for the USA to carry such a large debt load with any one country. Actually the debt load is way too high overall. It is scary and out of control. I was more or less informing the poster above you that China doesnt own the USA and isnt even close to owning it, even if the USA were to default on their loans. Overall on this board most people believe China hold all the debt of the USA, and that is not the case. Although I just found a number they hold about 1.95 trillion so it is higher then I originally posted. Maybe the stimulus will work and the USA will actually make some money and then use it to pay down some of the debt. Hell they just recieved a 740 million dollar dividend payment from Bank Of America yesterday, and over 1 billion so far this year, maybe they should send that directly to the chinese. Oh, my other point is they dont hate us. They would collapse faster then we would if we stopped buying their products. I could see the scenario now. China "We are no longer buying you treasuries" USA "We will no longer import any of your goods" China "Ok, how much do you need?"


[edit on 4-4-2009 by tide88]



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


I would totally agree with this appraisal.

China desperately needs the US and Europe to purchase its goods.

Its own internal market is not adequately developed as the population do not as of yet have either the purchasing power or the decadent taste of the west.

Without the west China would crumble.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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We owe China. As such we are in full control. If we don't pay them who loses? China loses. All that money they got for selling us inferior goods goes up in smoke. We keep the goods and they lose their money and there is little they can do about it. Despite what some might say on this site, they have no claim over anything in the US.



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
We owe China. As such we are in full control. If we don't pay them who loses? China loses. All that money they got for selling us inferior goods goes up in smoke. We keep the goods and they lose their money and there is little they can do about it. Despite what some might say on this site, they have no claim over anything in the US.



I agree 100%. Maybe we should just give them their lead toys, chinese drywall, and melamine ridden dog food back and call it even. Seriously read some of the crap and poison they sell to us. Chinese Defective Products I will never buy cereal made in China ever again. Wow, this is reassuring. 1/5 of Chinese Products on their shelves is substandard or tainted

[edit on 4-4-2009 by tide88]



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