I've often wondered where I would go if I had ten minutes notice to find safety. I've been thinking about some local caves that were old slate mines. They are approx 20m deep but only 30m above see level. Does anyone have any thoughts on their suitability for a hideout , would they be any good if the SHTF ie nuclear or polar shift? Is anywhere good with respect to the latter.

What about earthquakes? I guess a natural cave would be safer in an Earthquake but i don't know.

Anybody else had the same idea?

Foot

Most caves are pretty unsafe. If a mine has been closed because of productive reasons, but still looks reasonably intact, it may have been reinforced enough. But many mines have been closed because of instability reasons.

But if I need shelter I will take my chances.

Caves are very safe...from the CIA, US forces, FBI, bombings, electronic surveillance, UK forces...just ask Osama..he has used them for years.

Well, I also guess it depends on what else is in there.

Like a 300 pound Grizzly Bear!

Originally posted by sueloujo
Caves are very safe...from the CIA, US forces, FBI, bombings, electronic surveillance, UK forces...just ask Osama..he has used them for years.

Well, that's true, but caves weren't safe for the Japanese on Iwo Jima.

I guess it all just depends on where and when.

Originally posted by jerico65
Well, that's true, but caves weren't safe for the Japanese on Iwo Jima.

Granted, but - if sitX involves that kind of military onslaught, you're going to be hard pressed to find anywhere safe. Might as well put a bag on your head and sit in a corner.

If we're talking about caves in general, then they're fairly safe. Specific caves need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. It depends on where in the world you are, what kind of rock, and so on. I'd suggest getting some decent spelunking gear and doing some exploration. Make sure you bring redundant supplies, tell people where you are, get maps of the network if applicable, and bring redundant supplies.

FEMA suggests the following criteria for fallout sheltering from nearby nuclear detonation:

5 - 6 inches of brick
5-8 inches of sand, earth, or other compacted fill, such as gravel
10 inches of water
14 inches of books/magazines
18 inches of wood.

Why, oh, why is there never a measurement of rock?

I know this. There's nothing quite as comforting as having several feet of rock above and below you when the SHTF. That's true for hurricanes (assuming a high cave), as well as a plethora of other human-caused ills.

Caves rule. We are fortunate enough to have a cave 39 feet above high tide that is accessible only from our property. I wouldn't trade that for anything. I don't understand those that think them dangerous. Certainly nobody should just stroll into them without taking into account a redundancy of lighting objects.

IF your cave has two inches of nasty bat guano, then it's a good cave. Bats are somewhat delicate in their sensibilities, after all. Just try to not inhale it.

Radon, radionucleides and radon daughters (you REALLY can't make this stuff up) might be a contributing factor against some caves.

Hairy boogey monsters also. I hate that.

from my mine rescue experience it varies in deference parts of the country.
Railroad tunnels and Dry caves are the best.
Dry mines are next best.
Wet caves/ mines are questionable due to rain flooding them and the cold temperatures is them. This will limit the time you can stay in them.
plus the water causes any organic to rot and this may cause high levels of H2S, methane CO2 and CO and low levels of O2

With any mine or cave you need air circulation,
this means that there is more then one entrance.

Any mine/cave with large numbers of bats can be a problem with the danger of rabies and gases from them living in the mine/cave.

A few bats are in most cases no problem. this just shows the the air is breathable.

I would not explore mines without proper training and safety equipment.

I have explored over 5000 mines and have the training. But there are mines that look safe that I would not go into because of the dangers in those mines without a full mine rescue team.

Originally posted by jerico65
Well, I also guess it depends on what else is in there.

Like a 300 pound Grizzly Bear!

The 300 pound grizzly wouldn't be much of a problem. His 1200 pound mother would be.

Natural caves are very safe structurally. They would have caved in if they weren't.

no caves aren't save...the bat dung alone would make you ill.

dig your own trench, in wooded areas. If done properly you can have a fire beneath. Claim the ground first and likely the smell of human will deter any animal with a brain to hate us instincively.

Originally posted by suzque66
no caves aren't save...the bat dung alone would make you ill.

dig your own trench, in wooded areas. If done properly you can have a fire beneath. Claim the ground first and likely the smell of human will deter any animal with a brain to hate us instincively.

Not all caves have bats in them. Check them out first.
And if a cave does have bats and it's a large cave, then they will only use a portion of the cave.

Originally posted by Anuubis

Originally posted by suzque66
no caves aren't save...the bat dung alone would make you ill.

dig your own trench, in wooded areas. If done properly you can have a fire beneath. Claim the ground first and likely the smell of human will deter any animal with a brain to hate us instincively.

Not all caves have bats in them. Check them out first.
And if a cave does have bats and it's a large cave, then they will only use a portion of the cave.

Only one way in and one way out.
But caves are still a valid place to mooch and dwell in I think.

The issue with caves and mines is one of stability. You simply cannot be asued unless they have in fact been surveyed by a geologist that specializes in such.

Otherwise its a crap shoot IMHO.

While there are alot of pluses the negatives are also a huge issue :

Structural integrity: Not an issue in say Carlsbad Caverns but mines by and large are very unsafe.

Defensability: Most are one way in one way out and that is a defensive liability

Moving suplies in and out would be hard in some cases.

FredT, I think you're out of line on this one.
Caves have served our ancestors before, they could serve us again.

If you leave a building stood next to a cave there's a chance it could collapse prior to the cave I think.
A mine shaft unsupported by stone may be vulnerable, but I reckon a cave built into a mountain and the like is a whole lot more stable.
Look at where NORAD is for one example.

Originally posted by sueloujo
Caves are very safe...from the CIA, US forces, FBI, bombings, electronic surveillance, UK forces...just ask Osama..he has used them for years.

And don't forget they had Tim Osman satellite phone# and still can't find him But can track us with are cell phone and listen to are conversations