Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center, page 4
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 35 times


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 08:32 AM by CameronFox
Originally posted by billybob
so, if he didn't join, how did they publish this paper?
looks like mackey could have published his first one free. lame excuse.


It is a Vanity Journal. This means you pay to get published.

mackey is a lousy debunker. just good at obfuscation and misdirection like any two bit illusionist. he also talks out of one side of his mouth. i wonder if that's a physical, or a psychosomatic thing.


Well, you of course are entitled to your opinion. Many people (including truthers) correspond with him. I find him to be a pretty intelligent man.

funny thing, too. it's not jones' paper. there are many authors from varied disciplines that produced it. it is quite robust.


Jones is an author of this paper.

i can agree with some of mackey's comments, but they don't undo the facts from the paper. the chips are thermitic, period.


Facts were omitted from the paper. So to conclude that the results of this paper our factual is inappropriate. The authors need to show what type of paint they used and what type of paints were used at the WTC.


in my opinion, even if the thermite was a thin painted on layer, does not prove it wasn't explosive microthermite. in fact, painting it on would be a stealthy way of rigging the building.


It depends how much you would need to get the needed effect. Would a 1/16 of an inch of therm*te be sufficient to cause the damage needed? I don't know.

also, only thin chips were found, but that was AFTER the demolition. any larger samples would have been destroyed as they destroyed the building, leaving the characteristic iron microshperes, which are ALSO to be found in the dust.


Characterization of the Dust/Smoke Aerosol that Settled East of the World Trade Center (WTC) in Lower Manhattan after the Collapse of the WTC 11 September 2001
www.ehponline.org...

for a scientist, mackey's not very good at putting two and two together.


Your opinion is noted.

Do you happen to have anything that he has done that is wrong? I am not saying he is perfect, but if he is in err, I am sure he would like it brought to his attention.


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 09:54 AM by Griff
reply to post by CameronFox



I didn't mean to slight him at all. Just saying he probably doesn't have the background nor expertise to do a review. Now, pteridine seems to know what he's talking about. I'd much rather see him review the paper if he has the credentials.

It would be like me wanting to review the paper. I can't because I don't have the expertise in the matter. Just because someone is smart (Mackey) doesn't mean they can review everything. Hence the name peer review.



[edit on 4/6/2009 by Griff]

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Griff]


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 11:36 AM by pteridine
reply to post by billybob



430 C in air will oxidize organic materials. That is 806 F, about the temp of a self cleaning oven.


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 11:50 AM by Griff
reply to post by pteridine



Yes, but since we know that typical fires can reach ceiling temps to 1000C (as argued day-by-day here and elsewhere), wouldn't a paint that spontaneously, energetically (meaning explosively) combusts at half that temperature be a real hazard to buildings?

So, again, get on the ball and let OSHA know already.

BTW, since you feel that this is paint/primer can you post which paint/primer you suspect it to be so that we can check the combustion temperature on the MSDS sheet. Thanks.

That would be dry combustion temperature not when it is still wet.

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Griff]

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Griff]


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 07:29 PM by pteridine
reply to post by Griff


Griff,
I do not know what paint it is by brand and comparison data from that time period might be limited, anyway. It could even be the interface between the exterior columns and their aluminum covers. Analyses would indicate that possibility. Jones', et al., estimates of the amounts of material present in the dust almost preclude anything but a coating on the surface of the building structural members.


reply posted on 6-4-2009 @ 09:25 PM by Griff
reply to post by pteridine



So, in other words, you have nothing to refute on except your opinion. Well noted.


reply posted on 7-4-2009 @ 04:10 AM by Blazers7
Originally posted by pteridine
Originally posted by impressme
reply to
post by pteridine


Actually there is quite a bit to dispute and no real evidence for any thermite or thermate.


This thread is not about me, so stay on topic.

Your statement of thermite, or thermate is only your “opinion” do you care to show real evidences that there wasn’t any thermite, or thermate at the WTC. (I guess not!)

What would you call the melting steel that is running down the side of the WTC before it was blown to bits? In addition, do not say it was the aircraft fuel burning because the firers are out where the impact hole is. What ever it is, it is so “hot” that it is practically glowing as the liquid steel pours down the side of the trade center.


Impressme,
Here's the way this works: You claim thermite/thermate and you have to prove that it was there, I don't have to prove that it wasn't. So far, the paper in question hasn't proved anything of the sort.
What would I call the molten material running out of the building before the collapse sequence? Molten material of an unknown composition. You say it is steel but there is no evidence for that.


[edit on 4/6/2009 by pteridine]


YOU just have to prove several men of Arabic descent defeated the greatest military power in human history with boxcutters. Brought down 3 steel framed skyscrapers in NYC with 2 aircraft, then got through the greatest air defense system ever devised by man after it had been alerted to the presence of airborne enemies to attack the HQ building of the US Armed Forces.


reply posted on 7-4-2009 @ 04:30 AM by Blazers7
Originally posted by impressme
Yes we damn well do. That's what i've been trying to tell you a) I'm a materials scientist and b) I can evaluate Jones's paper c) I've shown that the material that he has is NOT thermite it's a layer of MIO (which is widely used in anti-corrosion paint) with a layer of red paint more than likely to be kaolin, Fe2O3 rhomboidal crystals and some sort of Carbon based binder (eg: urethane or epoxy etc)



If there is a grain of truth to this, so call Debunker, materials scientist evaluation, I would like to see his research. I would like to see his photos, compared to Jones analysis. Then I would like to see Mr Material’s scientist Debunker work put up for peer review.


No real materials scientist would make a screw-up like this. From the text of the paper itself p-15-17 ...

"...2. Test Using Methyl Ethyl Ketone Solvent
By employing some means to separate the different
components of the material, the chemical compositions of
the different particles in the red layer were more accurately
determined. The initial objective was to compare the behavior
of the red layer with paint when soaked in a strong organic
solvent known to soften and dissolve paint. Red/gray
chips were soaked in methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) for 55
hours with frequent agitation and subsequently dried in air
over several days. The chips showed significant swelling of
the red layer, but with no apparent dissolution. In marked
contrast, paint chips softened and partly dissolved when
similarly soaked in MEK. It was discovered in this process
that a significant migration and segregation of aluminum had
occurred in the red-chip material. This allowed us to assess
whether some of the aluminum was in elemental form...."

They tested the red/grey chips AND paint chips in methyl ethyl ketone solvent. The red/gray chips did not dissolve in the solvent, the paint chips did.
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>    ^^TOP^^



Flight 93 was headed for Building 7
  Posted 11 days ago with 48 member flags
9/11 INTERCEPTED
  Posted 3 days ago with 45 member flags
9/11: The WTC Elevator Key
  Posted 14 days ago with 43 member flags
What are your favorite 9/11 debunking tactics?
  Posted 7 days ago with 17 member flags
Who is the Joker on ATS radio now running their mouth?
  Posted 15 days ago with 13 member flags
Was the government a co-conspirator?
  Posted 17 days ago with 9 member flags
British Police Want Us To Present False Flag Terror Evidence.
  Posted 7 days ago with 8 member flags