Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center

reply to post by GenRadek


So, out of one side of your mouth you claim there were indeed chemical reactions taking place to melt the steel, but out the other side claim there is no proof of molten steel?

Please pick a side to be on.



[edit on 4/22/2009 by Griff]

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by PplVSNWO

 

see the video! there they are! paper wedged and stuck in there. Now if the steel was still molten or cooling, how will paper manage to "stick" on it without turning to ash? even if there was little oxygen inside, i dont think that paper will last long with something hot and molten.

I still don't see the resemblance from your video to this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a43b9ad920fd.jpg[/atsimg]

Care to point out any paper sticking out of this one?

Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I don't have a protractor either, but a quick pixel count shows approximately 23 degrees (+/- 1 degree) @ :05 seconds.

I'll map it out once I get home, but you might want to grab your
protractor and check my answer until then.

Are we completely dismissing the telescoping/hinge theory, or would you
like to confrim my angle of 23 degrees so that we may further study the
video evidence?

Thanks.

reply to post by GenRadek

So all of this alleged molten metal was discovered in the pile for weeks and months later, and yet, not a single person, worker, FDNY, engineer, etc person who worked in the Ground Zero, even considered taking a single picture of it, either still molten or solidified. Not a single person? Why? In order to hide it? But then they "slip up" and mention seeing "molten metal" in the pile and reported seeing something "molten", and all of a sudden this proof? Sorry, but THAT is one hell of a leap of faith. If this isnt evidence of selective "cherry picking" of accounts and eyewitnesses, I dont know what is.

I guess everyone lied except the government.

Oh , by the way, any evidence that "thermite charges" existed prior to 9/11? You know, patents? Any sort of evidence whatsoever? because the only thing I found is a patent file dated 2006.

I guess military black budgets top secrets military inventions, of highly classified, thermite weapons don’t count, eh?

Hmmmm did the inside job crew travel forward in time to aquire future technology like "thermite charges" and bring them back to bring down the WTCs?

No, we can only “guess” at how the terrorists planted explosives in the WTC. However, to say, traveling into the future to get thermite, is being sarcastically ridiculous.

Someone call the Temporal Police. The Temporal Prime Directive had been breached.

How about denying ignorants

reply to post by Griff


Well first off you need to have proof that there was indeed therm*te inside the WTCs. Without that you have nothing but a fantasy/pseudo-theory. Again, it has been shown clearly how severely flawed the analysis was of the alleged "magic therm*te" chips. Also, the evidence itself is very very thin. Where is the evidence that is undeniable? There isnt! Just a video of molten something (which would be anything) seen pouring from a tower prior to collapse, and mentions of "molten material" inside the pile made by a few working inside. Oh, and the samples of iron oxide and aluminum, and mysterious paint chips, that are being mistaken for some sort of magic therm*te.

I did not say you said that. I meant to say why cant it be other chemical reactions, besides therm*te. Reactions that one would expect to find the pile for weeks after.

reply to post by turbofan


I see. so you have come to the angle of the Tower's top section. Now then, how does this disprove the telescoping section?

reply to post by impressme


Ah so then the blanket statements of the "govt lies" to us a lot, and the military has black budgets and secret weapons is plenty of proof then right? I see. by the way, therm*te is not highly classified. Neither are therm*te charges.

And again, where is the proof any of it was planted without a soul noticing? Or where are the beams that were cut in this manner? I mean somebody should have seen something that was consistent with any sort of blast damage. But wait hold on, I thought the magic therm*te chips were "painted" on the columns. Now they are therm*te cutters? Or were they explosives? You know, you really should pick and stick with one, rather than jump from one to the next and interchange them.

and again, this would be the first time in history a skyscraper was brought down with magic therm*te.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by SPreston

 

SPreston,
Steel heats up when it rusts too! Did you know that?

Well golly gee, I don't think I have ever burned my hand by sticking it into a rusty old junk pile or car.




[edit on 4/22/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by GenRadek
by the way, therm*te is not highly classified. Neither are therm*te charges.

Well, here's a "thermite destructive device" patented in 1997.

1. A destructive device, comprising:

(a) a housing having a top, a bottom, and a thermally insulated liner to maximize the effectiveness of thermal output; and

(b) a thermite incendiary composition having a core-burning configuration contained in said housing, wherein said core-burning configuration comprises a hollow core extending downward along the length of the composition; said bottom of said housing having a circumferential skirt and defining one orifice therein for directing the expulsion of said thermite incendiary composition upon ignition, and said top having venting means which together with said orifice balance the escape of gas and prevent the device from moving during ignition.

www.freepatentsonline.com...

I can imagine many ways this device could aid in bringing down a building that gains it's lateral support by only a few bolts.

But wait hold on, I thought the magic therm*te chips were "painted" on the columns. Now they are therm*te cutters? Or were they explosives? You know, you really should pick and stick with one, rather than jump from one to the next and interchange them.

Ah, the old "your theory can not change" routine. And yes, the earth is still flat.

and again, this would be the first time in history a skyscraper was brought down with magic therm*te.

I thought first times in history were allowed on 9/11?

and again, this would be the first time in history a skyscraper was brought down with magic therm*te.

Much more likely than three towers falling for the first time ever on the
same day due to fire.

So you agree that after :06 and 23 degrees, the hinge 'snaps' and the
top section begins to come down toward Earth at this point.

It would follow that the West wall of the upper section (the side previously
hinged) should remain at a constant length as the upper block crushes
the remainder of the tower.

note: this side of the tower had no "drop distance" and therefore did not
slam into any lower section of the tower.

Do you agree with this fact of physics and as required by your hinge theory?

Originally posted by GenRadek
So all of this alleged molten metal was discovered in the pile for weeks and months later, and yet, not a single person, worker, FDNY, engineer, etc person who worked in the Ground Zero, even considered taking a single picture of it

It's apparent from those who witnessed it that the molten metal was deep beneath the pile. Is it reasonable to suggest that rescue workers engaged in excavating in the hazardous restricted area beneath the pile would be taking photographs - even supposing they were allowed to carry cameras?

That's not to say there are no photographs. We've seen no photographic proof of what hit the Pentagon, but I wouldn't assert there is none.

Originally posted by GenRadek
Where is the evidence that is undeniable? There isnt! Just a video of molten something (which would be anything) seen pouring from a tower prior to collapse, and mentions of "molten material" inside the pile made by a few working inside.

You misrepresent the quantity, richness and character of the verbal testimony. Why would you do that? Many refer to "molten steel", none to "molten material".

Here are some, but by no means all:

Mark Loizeaux, President, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (contracted to destroy evidence at WTC and Oklahoma City bombing)
Molten steel was encountered primarily during excavation of debris around the South Tower when large hydraulic excavators were digging trenches 2 to 4 meters deep into the compacted/burning debris pile. There are both video tape and still photos of the molten steel being "dipped" out by the buckets of excavators. I'm not sure where you can get a copy.

Professor Alison Geyh, 2002
In some pockets now being uncovered they are finding molten steel.

www.jhsph.edu...

Greg Fuchek, vice president sales LinksPoint, Inc., 2002
Sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel.

audio interview of Ground Zero chaplain Herb Trimpe
I talked to many contractors and they said they actually saw molten metal trapped, beams had just totally been melted because of the heat. So this was the kind of heat that was going on when those airplanes hit the upper floors. It was just demolishing heat.

Ron Burger, public health advisor, National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived at Ground Zero on the evening of September 12th
Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helens.

Greg Gittrich, New York Daily News, Nov 1, 2001
There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires.

Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah, Oct 2001
As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.

www.seau.org...

Dr. Keith Eaton, The Structural Engineer, September 3, 2002
They showed us many fascinating slides ranging from molten metal, which was still red hot weeks after the event...

Kathy Dawkins, NY Department of Sanitation
But for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains...

wasteage.com...

Guy Lounsbury, National Guard Magazine
One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains.

Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, September 11, 2002
He remembers a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel.

Lee Turner, Paramedic, US News & World Report, September 12, 2002
in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow—molten metal dripping from a beam.

William Langewiesche, only journalist to have unrestricted access to Ground Zero during cleanup
...in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.

Ken Holden, Department of Design and Construction, overseeing the Ground Zero cleanup operation quoted in 9/11 Commission Report
Underground, it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by GenRadek

and again, this would be the first time in history a skyscraper was brought down with magic therm*te.

This is the first time in history a fire started by two airplanes brought down three skyscrapers. In fact it’s the first time in history three skyscrapers have been brought down by fire period.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by SPreston

 

Ahh yes, cause the military is so damn secretive! Oh lookie what I found!
www.freepatentsonline.com...
Ahh but of course, the military gets all the goodies first, and then later on they allow others to patent their technology? I dont think thats how it works. But hey, I suppose saying "black military projects" is the blanket cover that is so easy to throw when you cannot provide any sources. Just like saying, God did it! So simple! God did it! Case closed! Prove me wrong!

SPreston, the hotspots have been explained time and time again....

[edit on 4/22/2009 by GenRadek]

On DoD/MIC secrecy and "national security:"

Code of Federal Regulations [EXERPTS] International Traffic in Arms Regulations Title 22 -- Foreign Relations; Chapter I -- Department of State Subchapter M -- International Traffic in Arms Regulations [Revised as of April 1, 1992] Part 120 Purpose, Background and Definitions Sec. 120.1 General. (a) Purpose. Section 38 of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778) authorizes the President to control the export and import of defense articles and defense services. It is the purpose of this subchapter to implement this authority. The statutory authority of the President to promulgate regulations with respect to exports of defense articles and defense services was delegated to the Secretary of State by Executive Order 11958, as amended (42 FR 4311). By virtue of delegations of authority by the Secretary of State, these regulations are primarily administered by the Director of the Office of Munitions Control, Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs, Department of State (35 FR 5422).

epic.org...

The U.S. Government views the sale, export, and re-transfer of defense articles and defense services as an integral part of safeguarding U.S. national security and furthering U.S. foreign policy objectives. The Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), in accordance with 22 U.S.C. 2778-2780 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (22 CFR Parts 120-130), is charged with controlling the export and temporary import of defense articles and defense services covered by the United States Munitions List (USML).

www.pmddtc.state.gov...

As far as the off-topic, irrelevant "God" business "that contribute[s] nothing to the thread," (IMHO) shouldn't that be discussed over here?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Or here?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Edit: Can someone provide us with a link where the molten materials "were explained time and again?"

[edit on 22-4-2009 by rhunter]

No they cant....it defies explanation....

just as WTC1,2 and 7 defy the laws of physics....contrary to what radek would disingenuously have us believe.

reply to post by EvilAxis


You know when I read comments like this..

Originally posted by GenRadek
"Where is the evidence that is undeniable? There isnt! Just a video of molten something (which would be anything) seen pouring from a tower prior to collapse, and mentions of "molten material" inside the pile made by a few working inside."

You really have to wonder what someones motives are when they say something that is so blatantly refuted by available video and witness testimony.

Excellent post EvilAxis, you did a great job showing any reasonable person that without question there was molten steel in the collapse pile for weeks and weeks after 9/11.

reply to post by Stillresearchn911


Don't jump too quickly....visual evidence only, by people who saw molten metal....it is repeated many times. 'Molten Metal'....could be copper, aluminum, iron or a combination of any, just one, or all. Without actual samples tested, there is no way to be 'certain'.

(copper, from the wiring....aluminum from....let's see....A/C ducting, cars in the parking in the basement , iron from plumbing fixtures....steel has by far the highest melting point of those other metals)

There are likely other metals I've missed....oh, just thought about re-bar....it's iron, NOT steel. Any others???

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Don't jump too quickly....
There are likely other metals I've missed....oh, just thought about re-bar....it's iron, NOT steel. Any others???

Care to guess again weedwhacker?

Steel Rebar & Wire Rod
Rebar is common steel reinforcing bar, an important component of reinforced concrete and reinforced masonry structures. It is usually formed from mild steel, and is given ridges (ribs) for better frictional adhesion to the concrete.

www.steelmillsoftheworld.com...

www.cmcsg.com...

How about Stainless Steel rebar?

www.stainless-rebar.org...

Stainless Steel Rebar Shape Codes to BS 8666

Edit: why don't you tell us the melting points of iron vs. "steel" weedwhacker?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by rhunter]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by rhunter]

Weedwhacker..

WTC1 and 2 were office blocks, not foundries!!


Thats ridiculous!!

Are you implying that if i took a scale model of WTC1 and stuffed it full of electrical cabling and some plumbing pipework and then poured jet fuel over it, the "visual evidence" w0uld include molten metal be it whatever kind, dripping from the sides??

Have you tried the above and seen the molten "metal"?

Sounds like a pretty long bow to me...

reply to post by rhunter


Well, I looked it up...it's not my field of expertise, but here goes...

Basic steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. (edit) so, to answer hunter, my impression of re-bar, as a layman, as stated above, is simple: It is cheap, great strength isnot needed, since it's not load-bearing. Basically, it's iron, with some carbon for added strengh (per rhunter's linkys up above...) Hey, re-bar can be bent by hand, with one end in a vise, and some leverage!!!

Metals that alloy with iron are nickel, maganese, chromium, vanadium and tungsten.

I saw a phase diagram showing various temps and states of the metal (steel). It appears to glow red at about 880 degrees C, yellow at about 1,100 degrees C....etc, we've all seen these figures.

Various alloys of steel will depend on its purpose. Tensile strength, reduced brittleness, etc.

Purely as a layman, I would think that construction-grade steel beams manufactured in the late 1960s-early 1970s would be designed for tortional strength....and compression resistance, to bear the vertical loads.

Wonder about the rivets....HOW are they made? Seems to me they'd be a weak point in the system....I mean, even if an I-beam is strong as heck, it still is bolted to its neighbor in some way.....and, of course, since I'm not an architect, I would still assume that the designs would emphasize the strength of the beams, and the bolts are only connectors, and not load-bearing....UNTIL something is sent askew....like a major impact force?


*edit*
Just for grins and giggles....let's suppose that it wasn't necessary to rig the entire structure, floor by floor, with explosives. How about a few Saudi car bombs in the underground garage, pre-placed in anticipation of the hijackings??

See? Now, we account for explosives residue, AND we account for the collapses....at least of WTC 1 and 2 (leave WTC 7 alone, for the moment...another subject....)

[edit on 4/22/0909 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 4/22/0909 by weedwhacker]