Official: Hostages held after 'multiple' shootings Binghamton, New York

Does anyone find it odd that in most (maybe even close to all) of these big hostage events that make it Live on TV, that the gunman ALWAYS shoots himself dead or is shot and killed by police? Why don't any of them live to tell WHY they did it? You'd think they'd want to tell their story, wouldn't you?

Is it possible some of these "highly emotional scenes" are created to sway or traumatize the public into more gun laws?

notice the guy was using handguns? Well what will come next? banning handguns.. thats logical next step from a CT pov

Originally posted by NateNute

Originally posted by mandroid


This is concerning given the Mumbai terrorist attacks and the possibility that htis is a sick new way for these twisted people to wreck carnage for their selfish demands.

I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the terrorist band-wagon yet. There are a lot of unstable Americans out there well capable of this. Maybe it's one of those anti-immigrants.

Is it just one confirmed gunman? Someone in there needs to get brave if its just one guy.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by NateNute]

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. The internet makes racism visible, even on this site, one can only hope this isn't the beginning of a trend for xenophobic Americans.

Notice the western world is being hit with these 'terrorist' attacks with almost the same frequency that Iraq is being hit with terrorist suicide bombers. But whereas we are told the Iraq attacks are the machinations of an evil group called 'al-queda,'
here in the west there are simply numerous 'lone gunmen' acting without any central coordination. Apparently conspiracy is impossible on this side.

From a toddler at a nursery to a 98yr old in an old folks home. From an one room amish schoolhouse to a huge university. From the churches to the malls to the workplaces. No one is safe. That is the message here.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal

what are the odds of the same exact script being played out in these random shootings?

I'm open to the idea that these cases could be false flags to raise fears and push legislation through that would further restrict our Second Amendment rights. In fact, i mentioned this possibility earlier in the thread. My point in the post to which you referred was: why is it that the politicians reaction to these cases (assuming they aren't false flags) with "let's make more gun laws." There are other ways to deal with violence, including but not limited to, dealing with the deranged before they go postal. Thanks for the reply.


TheAssociate

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
Does anyone find it odd that in most (maybe even close to all) of these big hostage events that make it Live on TV, that the gunman ALWAYS shoots himself dead or is shot and killed by police? Why don't any of them live to tell WHY they did it? You'd think they'd want to tell their story, wouldn't you?

Is it possible some of these "highly emotional scenes" are created to sway or traumatize the public into more gun laws?

Desperate people who feel forced to commit desperate acts, as opposed to those bent on revenge who plan it as their intended suicide, do not always have the next step of the plan fully worked out and the thought of spending the rest of their life in prison would likely be the governing factor in what they decide to do at the time.

Hey, I object to the contention that "people just snap" — that they're normal, clear-headed, responsible individuals one day and then bang, next day they murder their parents and friends and go on a shooting spree down at the orphanage. I don't think it works like that.

I do think that these people have histories of mental illness, that many of them have sought psychiatric help, that some of them have criminal records, and that they almost always send up red flags before they act.

Look at the biggest and baddest mass shootings in America's history — like Columbine or Virginia Tech. Those shooters were sending up red flags all over the place, videotaping themselves in preparation, seeking guidance from counselors, and visibly sinking further and further into deep black psychosis, right. People noticed that these guys were going weird, weeks in advance.

Did nothing.

More recently, this guy goes hunting old people in North Carolina at a nursing home. He didn't shoot himself, by the way. Police shot him in the leg or shoulder or something, but he survived. No comments on his motivation, although the rumor is he went in there "lookin' for his wife," whatever the hell that means. But the guy's mother-in-law said she wasn't surprised. She remarked that it might be an awful thing to say, but it sounded like something he'd do.

And I'll go one further — some of these clowns have already had run-ins with authorities. Some of these shooters are known to the FBI, for instance. Back in 1998, at the height of the Lewinsky/Clinton scandal, there was some whack job who walked right into the Capitol building in Washington and shot a couple of guards right there in the lobby. One guard died, I think, as did the whacko. Guess what? The FBI knew this guy, knew he was dangerous, knew he had threatened politicians, right.

My question is this: Why aren't we hitting these goddamned whack jobs in advance? We know who they are, they're practically broadcasting their craziness to us, the FBI knows who they are, their families know they're up to no good.

So WHY aren't we acting to STOP this insanity BEFORE people DIE?

This isn't about guns. It doesn't matter what the weapon is. In Japan, a crazy man murdered 8 children and seriously injured 21 children and adults with a paring knife. Do you know what a paring knife is? It's a little bitty 3 inch blade for peeling apples or potatoes, right. This guy in Japan (where guns are banned) went on a little rampage at a daycare center, weilding a paring knife.

It was a slaughterhouse. With a paring knife. But it doesn't matter what the weapon was. The monster was in the guy's head, right? And he unleashed it...

So, no, this isn't about placing blame on the weapon. If they ban guns in America, we'll have knife slaughters just like Japan. Ban the knives and we'll have mass murders with golf clubs. Et cetera. This is about very obvious craziness that we just ignore.

What the hell, people? I think the problem is that we're being taught not to judge others. That's what they tell the kids, let's bring the whole world together and not judge each other and we can be progressive and sing Kumbaya.

That's brainwashing... So we toddle about our daily affairs and we voluntarily, consciously choose NOT to judge that dude who is very obviously crazy like a keg of gunpowder. We not only don't judge him, our law enforcement agencies seemingly ignore these screwy crazy people, even though they know those nutjobs are dangerous to themselves and to the public.

We need to purge the bad brains, okay? It's not the guns, it's the crazy people, the ones who make us nervous at work or at school or wherever. We need to stop coddling these malcontents and deal with them before they go on their little crazy killing sprees.


— Doc Velocity






[edit on 4/4/2009 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I think the reason these nut jobs get a chance to get theirs is because these are EXTREME actions that to be foreseeable would need EXTREME forewarning. What i mean is, what seems to be previous indicators of the american psycho's madness is really the quiet before the storm. Something questionable, on the other hand would be finding a hitlist or something, yeah then we would know for sure.

Well there is a new twist on this today and really if true quite a worrying one,

Pakistani militant Baitullah mehsud has claimed responsibility for the attact on the civic center, So i would imagine if true that he organised it?

He is a high up member of the Taliban so i hear, If this is the case then this would be the first attack on US soil after 9/11,

reply to post by asala


Oh #! I hope it isn't true. If it is, I would designate it the FIRST such act by solely religious fanatics on US soil.

add: Not that this should turn into the inside job debate, I hope.

[edit on 4-4-2009 by Dean Goldberry]

Originally posted by asala
Well there is a new twist on this today and really if true quite a worrying one,

Pakistani militant Baitullah mehsud has claimed responsibility for the attact on the civic center, So i would imagine if true that he organised it?

He is a high up member of the Taliban so i hear, If this is the case then this would be the first attack on US soil after 9/11,

The fact that the Taliban would try to take credit for yesterday's shootings is further evidence of what I already suspected; that the Taliban has little ability to strike outside of the Middle East. It is absurd to take this claim seriously.

First of all, in the story I read he claimed that the "shooters," were."his men." He obviously read the early reports of two shooters but missed the part in which it was confirmed that there was only one.

This was not a terrorist act....or more accurately, was not the work of a terrorist organization. All we have here is a desperate act of a desperate man (the shooter) and a desperate attempt to become globally relevant (the Taliban.)

I fully agree, It does make sense at all, I mean if you where to attack Americans then why go to an immigration center,

This is the act of a lone man who was not sound of mind,

Originally posted by asala
Well there is a new twist on this today and really if true quite a worrying one,

Pakistani militant Baitullah mehsud has claimed responsibility for the attact on the civic center, So i would imagine if true that he organised it?

He is a high up member of the Taliban so i hear, If this is the case then this would be the first attack on US soil after 9/11,

Maybe this guy sent out negative "vibes", so it was like a curse. The shooter seems to be unaffiliated.

reply to post by asala


here's the link to an ats thread about this
Taliban claim responsibility for New York shootout

and a link to an outside source
Pakistani Taliban head claims responsibility for US shootout - Summary

Mehsud said the massacre was in revenge for the continued US drone attacks on Pakistan's tribal region bordering Afghanistan. The seven semi-autonomous tribal districts are known to serve as sanctuaries for al-Qaeda and Taliban rebels.

"We are not the one who started it, the Americans did it with the drone strikes," he was cited as saying by BBC's Urdu Service on its website. We will hit more US targets in future, he added.

Mehsud's claim came hours after a suspected US pilotless aircraft fired missiles on a militant hideout in the North Waziristan tribal district, killing at least 13 people and injured eight more.

The details today start to raise questions...

Taliban claim / FBI denies
IBM worker / IBM says he was never an employee
When working under an alias, he was known as a gun enthusiast / The suspect's sister says he never even owned a firearm & he was just another victim.

Hopefully more info will be officially released at the 12pm conference.

I was just reading an update on this story and it looks like the PTB are going to use this event as a catalyst for gun controll. Isnt that convenient....

And so it begins....

Gun Control Coming

I am astonished the number of shootings recently.

No, it is not a bunch of crazies doing this. This is a coordinated effort. I'm assuming by the people that want guns off the streets.

"There'll be no shelter here."

reply to post by Doc Velocity


One snapped in Pittsburgh now. Guy lost his job and complained to his family that people were treating him in a disrespectful manner. Three cops dead in this one.

I hate to say I told you so. We need to shed our foolish pride and prejudices, and start helping people instead of making their lives more difficult. We need to start talking and reaching out to people with good intentions in mind.

[edit on 4/4/09 by John Matrix]

Another bit to add to this is that the man was also said to be wearing body amour, which indicates that he was ready to take on the police...

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. (AP) -- The gunman who killed 13 people at an immigrant aid center and then committed suicide was wearing body armor, indicating he had been prepared "to take the police on," the Binghamton chief said Saturday.

Gunman Jiverly Wong, 41, apparently decided to kill himself when he heard the sirens, Police Chief Joseph Zikuski said.

"He must have been a coward," he said.

"He had a lot of ammunition on him, so thank God before more lives were lost, he decided to do that," the chief said.

Wong parked his car against the back

link

So it appears that he may not have gone in there thinking about killing himself, From this article anyway,

More twists and turns everywhere you look in this story, Hmmm