U.S. to North Korea: Don't launch your rocket

take it from a young aged american fellow, i dont want to go to war for something i dont think is right or hell i dont even know what's going on! the only knowledge i have gained about north korea is they need some help.... why not ask politely?
what the world has forgot!

Originally posted by chapter29



Let them fire their missle...so what?


I'd rather let them have their 15 minutes off (non)fame, than really embarrass them and give them no other option but to go loco to 'save face'...

You need to realize however, that it is FAR from that simple.

For starters, allowing any successful Missile Launch after being threatened of retaliatory consequences, will show us as being weak and easy to cave in. Just the fact that North Korea will defy our orders to cease and desist, is in of itself a show of weakness to the world.

Also of great importance, is the little known fact that North Korea manufactures the Launch Vehicles for Iran's Nuclear Weapons Program. In other words, a successful launch by North Korea will essentially represent a "Sales Pitch", and thus increase Proliferation based orders from other Nations and Organizations.

reply to post by lighter78



Yeah go ahead and ask! I'm sure they'll listen this time. It's not like they didn't listen the other several hundred times before. you should read up on North Korea


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b4ec80909d96.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by lighter78
take it from a young aged american fellow, i dont want to go to war for something i dont think is right or hell i dont even know what's going on! the only knowledge i have gained about north korea is they need some help.... why not ask politely?
what the world has forgot!

Are you serious? If so, you have much to learn of this world. I hope that some experience brings about an opening of your eyes

Please do not take offense, but I am surprised by your lack of knowledge on the matter. If you really do want to learn more in regards to this topic, feel free to go through some of the discussions on ATS related to North Korea. I will even be willing to discuss the issues with you if you so wish.

i know i know, expect the worst, hope for the best scenario.. people dont always fear the monger ya know.

Originally posted by Seany

wouldn't the American people like to try a year, heck 6 months

without being at war with someone ??

Were we the ones to start this that Kim Ill is doing?

Seriously, why is it that some people can't understand that the whole world is not peaches, love, and harmony?

I wish it could be, but it is not.

IMO what you are saying is to appease those that don't want anything good towards people, any people.

Perhaps you also think it is a good idea to turn your head away from other evils occurring in the world, such as the massacres, or even the Human Rights problems that are plaguing the world.

Americans don't love war, however, we do love our rights, and our lives, and for others to enjoy the same rights, and their lives.

Kim ill, doesn't want anything good out of this missile launch, and if he is appeased he will continue with his fanfare, and one day sooner or later will make good on his threats.




[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I can't help but feel that after all the blustering and chest beating , the rocket will launch, the world will hold it's breath.
The people wait for the 5 minutes after launch to see what Japan and the US do, then the rocket will explode due to a 'malfunction'.
That way everyone saves face, the Jap's and US don't initiate WW3 for shooting down the rocket and then KN could say YOU started it.
And the NK can say we launched and theres nothing YOU could do about it but due to a technical hitch we had to abort or some other nonsense.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Also of great importance, is the little known fact that North Korea manufactures the Launch Vehicles for Iran's Nuclear Weapons Program. In other words, a successful launch by North Korea will essentially represent a "Sales Pitch", and thus increase Proliferation based orders from other Nations and Organizations.

Could you please provide a source for this little known fact that North Korea manufactures the Launch Vehicles for Iran's Nuclear Weapons.

I was unaware of any nuclear weapons program in Iran, I have heard of a civillian nuclear power, but even the IAEA has said that there is no evidence of a weapons program.
in fact the only ones who are certain of this program is Israel, and of course they wouldn't have anything to gain from false accusations now would they?

reply to post by SLAYER69
Or what?

Def. Sec. Gates has gone on record several times now saying that there's nothing the U.S. can (will?) do about the PRK missile launch.

So whatever Hillary and Barry say, it's all bluster unless we take covert action. It can't be overt or the administration is a liar, diplomatically. Interception has to be covert, if done at all.

Does the socialist hand know what the fascist hand is doing in this 'administration?'


jw

I must admit, i have been laughing at post's repeating to use nukes or what ever. Since most of you all are hell bent in using weapons which would make such an area non supportive of life in that scale was implemented. You may want to look at the following video and listen to the point that U.S. have used such a weapon in Afghanistan. In closing Nukes are like weapons from a former era when it comes down to earth.
If you still are hell bent on using Nukes, then i guess you should be ready to die yourself since the fallout would be on a global scale. So its a loose loose situation on both sides.



Since i have covered the above topic if using nukes, i though i should move into the second stage of full out attack.



Just to recap, its a combination of both weapons that can render a whole or part of country inoperable, basically taking it back into the beginning of the 20th century.

Originally posted by munkey66
Could you please provide a source for this little known fact that North Korea manufactures the Launch Vehicles for Iran's Nuclear Weapons.

How about the Russians?

Russia and the West would be making a big mistake if they ignored or underestimated the potential missile and nuclear threat coming from Iran, a Russian military expert said on Thursday.

en.rian.ru...

Or the Federation of American Scientists?

News reports claimed that Iran is developing a 3,500-mile (5,632 kilometers) range missile called Shahab-6 that would be capable of reaching Europe. The technology for this system was cited as coming from Russia and North Korea.
...
Iran's Kosar launch vehicle was suggested to be the Iranian variant of the North Korea's Taep'o-dong-2 booster. The new missile was said to be undergoing design development with assistance from Russian aerospace technicians and state-run entities. … They are left with no other alternative but to work with the North Korean engine technology in their possession and their rework of it for the Shahab-5 and Shahab-6 programs in cooperation with North Korea.

www.fas.org...

Have you been in denial, or do you just not wish to face unfortunate facts?

Take 5 minutes and google the approporiate terms for more "news."

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Sorry, but if you do a descent search and look at all the media "news" in respect to Iraq prior to the invasion, you WILL see exactly or damn similar statements. But hey then again no such Long Range Missiles or Weapons of Mass Destructions were found.

Oh just in case you happen to mention the Scud Missiles, well that was the ultimate joke for who ever has a descent background in icbm knowledge.

May I point out that the on going conflict which encompasses the war on terror , is costing the US many billions of dollars, and the UK a comparitive amount of pounds. I dont think that war is an acceptable way to rebalance the books, even if it WHERE a strategy likely to succeed. Also , I believe that if there is a war to fight , then out of self respect, the US MUST stay out of it. Theres a little too much emphasis placed on America attempting to right the wrongs of all the world at the moment, and it would probably be an idea if they wrapped up thier current warfronts , and began fixing thier own nation. A good start would be burning the Nazi camp in the south (virtualy a whole town full of white supremacists is not acceptable in ANY state, let alone one which went to war with nations which were accused of fascist and degenerate behaviour) to the ground, and putting a warning sign there "THATS WHAT YOU GET". After that, maybe a good idea to bail out the American people , instead of concentrating so hard on the businesses and banks which have absorbed more money in the past few months , than the US is capable of earning in half a decade. The LAST thing that ought to be on the agenda is more war. Leave it to the local nations to deal with that pintsize dimwit bully boy . Im sure Japan are more than capable of destroying that particular threat.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm going to try to get even money from my bookie that NK will air burst a nuke.

These are not good odds for me. The bookie gets the best of it on these prop bets.

Originally posted by Adrifter
Yep its cool to let the N. Korean's continue to advance in their long range ballistic missile technology, pretty soon, they will be able to hit Washington D.C.. That's why their testing the missile's to make sure when the day comes to launch em at targets they reach them.. the only thing that does not bother me is this nut's missiles cannot reach the east coast of America, but as long as mad man continues to test his missiles these days will be short. The New saddam, has nukes.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by Adrifter]

so basically you're saying that you're ok with hundreds of thousands if not millions of human beings being murdered?!! Or do you think that since we're American we're not human? I'd tell you what I think of people like you but it'd violate the T and C of this site.

reply to post by FunSized


I would also hope that the US does not get Nuked. I would like to see the Pentagon , and lets face it the entire international intelligence community wiped off the face of this earth though. The amount of trouble those guys cause would boggle your mind if you could know all that they are responsible for.

This conflict should stay on a regional scale if it happens , America doesn't need this war , Japan and Sk could be ok to handle the north koreans . But America guarantees Japan's independance , so if North Korea acts on Japan like they said , that will give the U.s a good casus belli to kick North Korea's butt . But U.s.a doesn't need this war , it would be better to stay out of it .

Get off the nuke bandwagon.
The mere fact you even consider the instaneous slaughter of millions of innocent people makes me question severely your moral integrity on several fronts and kills your credibility of debate on these forums.

In reply to reaching out to NK, I believe that's exactly what they're doing. I think its time some countries, including the USA, put aside their "pride" and do their primary job, which is real easy. Its called being a human, and we all posess the skill to do that job, even if some people forgot how.

I think if you saw some offers like if you dissamble the rocket we will give you xxxx amount of food and fuel, and lift your trade sanctions etc.. there would be some real progress.

The no tolerance policy has worked in the past for the US, there's absolutely NO reason to stop now so the US can continue it's success in foreign relations, right?

reply to post by tristar


Well well

OK so you show two weapons systems that the US has had in it's arsenal for over 20 years what else is new?


We used the predecessor in Vietnam it was called a Daisy cutter also we have our own MOABs



As far as the EMP weapon have you ever heard of the road to Basra in gulf war1? All those vehicles stopped running at the same time. I think the unofficial name for the weapon at the time was called a "thumper" That's the nick name given the weapon because of the thumping sound the weapon made while running. All the damage came later when the Air force was told to wipe em out.


So whats your point?




[edit on 3-4-2009 by SLAYER69]

Man... I wish the world actuall DID work as simply, as black-and-white, as some people on this board suppose.

First, where do we get off saying what country can or cannot develop missile technology (whether I personally feel they should or not)?

Second, even IF we feel we do have the right to make that determination how, without the use of provocative force, are we going to prevent a motivated country from going forward despite our protestations and threats?

Third, in order to pursue scientific exploration and other satellite-based endeavours (communications, intelligence gathering, GPS, etc.) they would by necessity have to develop the very same missile technology that could be used as a ballistic weapon. Do we have the right to deny them these pursuits?

Fourth, I'm not naive enough to believe that NK is doing this for peaceful purposes. But it is unquestionable that nuclear armed countries are taken more seriously on the world stage. NK undoubtedly wants to be seen as a 'player'.

Fifth, the notion that NK's intent is to build a couple nukes and have-at DC or any part of the US or any other country for that matter is an utterly preposterous notion. We may chacterize Kim as 'unstable' and 'crazy' but he's not stupid. Learn something about the nature of nuclear weapons before you make these kinds of assertions. The days when a nuke or three dropped on a country could bring it to its knees ended in the 50's. NK knows, as does the rest of the world, that a nuclear attack on any nation --- most especially a country like the US --- would result in the utter annhilation of NK before the first warhead even hit. We have, in our pacific submarine fleet alone, enough nuclear firepower to reduce NK to an uninhabitable wasteland. And they know that. We remind them in significant detail each year with our Strategic Nuclear Targeting documents.

Sixth, even IF NK was insane enough to be willing to vanish into history with a limited nuclear attack on the US (or some other country) it's one thing to build a ballistic missile and a nuke and another thing altogether to engineer a nuke that can be successfully delivered via ballistic missile, more or less on-target, without failing or being intercepted.

There is no margin in our intercepting thsi missile launch. If Japan chooses to because it flies over their airspace that will be bad enough. The consequences of NK 'acting-out' after someone interferes with this launch is going to have far more dire consequences than the launch itself. To take the position that we should screw with them and hevy-up just cause we can is sophomoric in the extreme.

The world is up to its ears in BS becuase certain political leaders thought that the US needs to exact some vengeance over the 9/11 attacks. WTF did that accomplish? Did we get any of the perpetrators? Did we REALLY make the world any safer? If you think it did, then you're crazier than you believe Kim is.