Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

You people are crazy.... Communism is not good at all. I still have family living in a Communist dictatorship.

Communism always leads to dictatorship. There is no way in which every person in a country can be in power, such as the Communist propaganda tries to tell you, hence the power is consolidated to a few people ALWAYS.

You have a lot more restrictions, and oppression under a Communist system, than under a Capitalist system, because there are no check and balances in power.

Communism will always oppress the people. It never frees anyone, but the elite, who claim to be the voice of the people.

reply to post by Red_Fox


Under communism I would have more freedom then the debt slaves that we all are today - I work to provide for shareholders who in turn give me a wage.

Out of that wage they take 50% back in debt repayments on mortgages and cars which means that all my hard work only leaves me on average with 2.5% of the wealth I generate, while they take 97.5% - is that freedom.

Is it freedom when the government can control everything I do and I cannot make them answer for at least 5 years for decisions that they take in my name on the world stage. Is it freedom when every aspect of my life and communications can be monitored without my consent. Is it freedom to be biometrically tracked when I enter or leave a country.

That is the freedom we live in currently - we are no better then the slaves in the Roman Empire who worked while their masters were fed grapes. The only difference is we are fed the illusion that we too can be the masters but unfortunately that is an impossibility when 85% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the population who will never give that up willingly.

reply to post by count66


Below is an extract taken from Bertrand Russell's exquisitely titled short essay In Praise of Idleness

Let us take an illustration. Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of men can make twice as many pins: pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lower price.

In a sensible world, everybody concerned in the manufacturing of pins would take to working four hours instead of eight, and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work.

There is, in the end, just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way, it is insured that the unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a universal source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined?

For a work first published in 1932 it is remarkably relevant ,and though we have strode into the 21 Century , we are shadowed by subjects that were as relevant then as they are now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you to the ATS member who brought my attention to this short essay , which i had read in my youth ~ but only understood its poignancy recently.
You know who you are .

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


There is no communist country existing in the world today.

What there are existing and what many people confuse as communism as that is the lie that is spread by the powers that be who wish ti divert us from the truth are autocratic socialist states which usually came into power after being sponsored by other autocratic socialist states.

Please understand the difference between the two systems and they are very different.

Communism is not and never advocates a single state solution so its a fallacy to say a communist country in the first place - communism can only be achieved on an international stage as resources that must be shared are located internationally and not in any single state.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by count66]

Originally posted by count66

Under communism I would have more freedom then the debt slaves that we all are today - I work to provide for shareholders who in turn give me a wage.
.......

Not true in the least, under Communism you have less freedoms...

Every country that has turned Communist, since the beginning of such Communist revolution, it only meant the death, and destruction of the entire nation, and the never ending suffering of the people, nomatter how many times those in favour of Communism claim that it's ideals are good, they are not.

In the U.S. Republic people have had more freedoms, for longer than in any Communist nation, but there are those in power who want to end this, and are implementing, and have been implementing Socialist/Communist programs, which only destroy the nation.

All we have to the in the United States Republic, is make sure that no damn politician, or President deletes/erases the Declaration of Independence, nor the Constitution, nor the Bills of Rights.

The Republic needs to maintain the agreements which the forefathers reached, before they once again started bickering about what form of government is best.

A Republican, is a person that advocates the Republic, and is against all dictatorships. All Americans should see themselves as sons and daughters of the Republic, as Republicans.

I am not talking about backing the current Republican Party, which has been deviating from what Republicans should really be, but rather those principles, and to uphold and defend the living documents in which this nation was founded.



[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by count66

There is no communist country existing in the world today.
..............

BS, every one of them is a Communist state, and every one of them is a Communist dictatorship. Communism is set up from the beginning to be a dictatorship.

Every country that avocates the craziness of Marx, transforms into a dictatorship.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Again I will say that there has only ever been one true communist system and that was the first 10 years of the Soviet Union and look up what happened there and the strides that were made before it was crushed by the powers that be.

Ask yourself if it wasn't a real threat to the debt slavery system of today, why were more soliders from more countries then fought in the first world war sent to crush the soviet revolution? - needless to say they achieved their goals - along with creating the myth that autocratic socialism is communism.

Also I live in Europe which would be considered to be a socialist system of which I'm not a huge fan either.

I also have many relatives living in the U.S. and to be honest they having seen it from both sides are not a huge fan of that system either.

And before anyone says why don't they go home then - well they all own their own business and two of my uncles served in Vietnam so they have contributed a lot to the U.S - its just in their opinion no better then Europe at the end of the day.

Originally posted by count66

Communism is not and never advocates a single state solution so its a fallacy to say a communist country in the first place - communism can only be achieved on an international stage as resources that must be shared are located internationally and not in any single state.

....................So you are saying that in order for the crazy Communist ideas to work that the dictatorship must be international?....

That's what most Communists want...to export their dictatorship and make it global....

Originally posted by count66
............
Ask yourself if it wasn't a real threat to the debt slavery system of today, why were more soliders from more countries then fought in the first world war sent to crush the soviet revolution? - needless to say they achieved their goals - along with creating the myth that autocratic socialism is communism.
.......

Because the Communist masters ordered them to, and would kill their own soldiers if they tried to avoid running without any weapons toward the German soldiers....

You should ask yourself why every one of the Communist countries who took on the missery and death of Communism has become a dictatorship, and it is not because of your claim, and that of other Communists, that they are not Communsit nations....



[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Its very simple the war in the Soviet Union destroyed true communism allowing autocrats like Stalin to take power. These autocrats then went on to sponsor other movements like their own as they knew true communism was as much a threat to their positions as capitalism - its all very simple - its just the same as Hitler supporting Franco in Spain.

Just to give an understanding of how the powers that be really wanted to destroy the true revolution - here are some of the troop numbers from some of the countries that invaded bolshevik Russia to destroy the revolution.

50,000 Czechoslovaks (along the Trans-Siberian railway)
28,000 Japanese, later increased to 70,000 (all in the Vladivostok region)
24,000 Greeks (in Crimea)
13,000 Americans (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
12,000 Poles (mostly in Crimea and the Ukraine)
4,000 Canadians (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
4,000 Serbs (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
4,000 Romanians (in the Arkhangelsk region)
2,000 Italians (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
2,000 Chinese (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
1,600 British (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
1,200 French and French colonial (mostly in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
560 Australians (mostly in the Arkhangelsk regions)


I will do you a favour - if you can name any country that you claim is communist that adheres to the 10 main principles in the communist manifesto then do so - but it must adhere to all the principles.

If you read the manifesto you will see that no country has done so and certainly not the autocratic socialist countries who have abandoned communism and who never pursued the international aspirations of communism either

reply to post by UmbraSumus


That was great! Would anyone really complain if they were getting the same cash for half the work? I very much doubt it!



(edit for spelling mistake)

[edit on 3/4/09 by sotp]

Originally posted by count66
................

I will do you a favour - if you can name any country that you claim is communist that adheres to the 10 main principles in the communist manifesto then do so - but it must adhere to all the principles.

If you read the manifesto you will see that no country has done so and certainly not the autocratic socialist countries who have abandoned communism and who never pursued the international aspirations of communism either

I was spon fed the Communist manifesto as a child...

The main problem why no country has all 10 points of your precious manifesto, is that the power can never be given to all the people, hence the Communist system is stucked in the stage where a few are in total control of the nation.....that does not mean they are not Communist nations...

I have heard your people proclaim the same thing over and over, trying to justify the oppression of the people...

In a Communist country the individual is destroyed, hence the nation is destroyed. Communism does not allow for independent thinking, since you must always think what is best for the Communist community, and not what is best for you, and your family....

Your propaganda does not work, and will never work....

TPTB are trying to spread Communism throughout the world because it is the way to control everyone...



[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

BTW people in the United States are not as happy now as they use to be before the 1930s, simply because Socialist/Communist programs have been implemented into the system, with the purpose of turning the system into a Socialist/Communist dictatorship..

The Federal Reserve, among many others, is a Socialist program, and now they are claiming that to solve the problem they have to nationalize the whole banking system.... The Republic is turning into a dictatorship because of the same propaganda you have swallowed, and you are trying to spread.



[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by count66
1. That our destiny was forged in our own hands and that state intervention was unnecessary and unwarranted.

2. to make us live like good productive rats to support their own wealth generation.

3. They give us the illusion of democracy

4. A system where thee vast majority of people work to support the few.

5. the wealth is so unevenly distributed that 10% of the worlds population control 85% of the worlds assets. In the meantime the 90% of us that are left behind are forced to beg for work or for meagre social welfare handouts to support or familes or in many cases starve. This in turn leads to war, social disruption, crime, disease etc.


6. So what happens when we the people cannot make our payments.

7. This is an absolutely insane systems whereby the generators of the worlds wealth are getting paid a fraction of its value. I calculated the money I had generated and saved for my company over the past two years and it worked out at well over €2 Million - in return I got approximately 5% - of which the vast majority goes to service debt, i.e. mortgage, car etc. So not only have the powers that be got 95% of that 2 million, they also want me to pay them about half of the 5% that they paid me back to them just to have the bare necessities of life.

8. I finally had an epiphany when I read for the first time the Communist Manifesto - it made total sense.

9. The communist manifesto is true democracy

10. economic poverty.

11. This is the main conspiracy of today - to continue to trap us in the hamsters wheel of illusionary democracy and capitalist production.

12. read the communist manifesto


13 Why do the powers that be seek to crush it ruthlessly wherever it tries to take root if it is not a genuine threat to their ideals.

14 Why is the communist manifesto consistently lied about as being undemocratic when it fact it espouses the most liberal form of democracy that their is

15 If the current system is the true way to wealth why is the majority of the world growing poorer and the rich getting richer

1. But then the schools began to teach Democracy and Dependence on the State for a FREE lunch.

2. Yes, being productive is a very bad thing in Communism. Where the 'will works' have their productivity taken and redistributed to the 'will not works.' So, it is better to be on the 'will not work' side in this type of society. That is the way the US has been heading since WWII.

3. Democracy is nothing more then MOB RULE! Your scared to put your life in the hands of a few Idiots with power, but have absolutely no problems handing it over to a ring leader. Ask yourself, what happens when people get together in a mob. Their brains fall out and they act like pack animals. Thing Riot! That is a mob rule. Sounds like a great form of government to me.

4. Again, that is not what capitalism is about, that is what you are told by the far left, what capitalism is about, when in fact, that is what Socialism is about. Yes I read the darn manifesto. Socialism is not a destination, it is a pathway to communism.

5. Sounds like the definition of communism to me.

6. You FAIL!

7. You aint seen nothing yet. Wait until you get your Communism and see how much of that wealth you keep.

8. Are you reading the same document? That document is basically the platform of the Left and Democratic Party. Replace the words, 'Communist Manifesto' replace with 'Democratic Prosparity' and show it to your Left leaning buddies. They will all say "yeah, that sounds about right" until you show them that its really the communist manifesto.

9. Again, that means its a Mob Rule! I can't wait for the Riots! Sounds fun. Can you imagine the prosperity now? What you want in a government, is a Representative who will make sound decisions with a level head when the Crap hits the fan. Not some crack addict ring leader shouting 'HANG EM! BURN EM!'

10. Again, the epitome of Communism.

11. Right! Long soup lines and $50 bread sounds much better then being productive. Cant wait for the Holy Ringleader to feed me.

12. Done it, could have been taken directly from the American Democratic Party. Notice the correlation between Democratic and Democracy... I wonder if their is something to that.

13. Because a great deal of them agree with Communism. Its not a threat if you want it. It promises Totalitarian Powers. Who wouldnt want that?

14. Key word, "Most Liberal Form". Liberal does not mean Liberty. Contrary, it means Slavery. They move close to your heart with their lips, but their actions speak louder then words.

15. Thats because the STATE has intefeired WAY to much and caused this mess. People give to Charities to help those who cant help themselves. People like to do that. What people dont like, is when the STATE forces them to do something and give their hard earned money to parasites who refuse to work or be productive, because they can make more money from the state.

This is your view and you have a right to it. I suggest moving to one of Many Communist countries and living their for a trial run before you make a decision. If you like it, I support your views and right to live that way, just dont push it on me.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You are again misguided - where have I supported the oppression of people - another fallacy that you spreading.

Secondly - communism is not an single state solution and was not what Marx, Lenin or Trotsky espoused - that was a Stalinist autocratic ideal as it allowed power to be centralised in one place hence Lenins wish to try and prevent him taking power before his death and also Trotsky attempts to oppose him before he was murdered in Mexico.

Also, you fail to grasp that you are already a slave living in a land of illusionary freedom - you talk about oppression - is it not oppression when people do not have an equal right to food, housing, education etc. People talk about democracy and capitalism offering the best chance of freedom.

If that is the case how has 85% of the wealth ended up in the hands of 10% of the world population.

True freedom is where everyone has an equal starting point and from there then can then go on to achieve what their abilities allow them too.

The capitalist system is the one of oppression, debt slavery, wars over resources, global rape of the planet, envoirnmental destruction, hunger, starvation, medication being prevented from being administered to the sick as there is no profit in it, ordinary people being shackled with mortgage debts for most of their working lives just to have the right to a house.

reply to post by arcnaver


Again you don't seem to understand the distinction between autocratic socialism and communism.

Also, again I see the misguided notion of people getting something for nothing - like for example a shareholder.

Under communism you are expected to work but in return you retain the wealth you generate rather then the wealth you generate being distributed to a lazy shareholder.

The only people who are looked after for free under communism are the aged, the disabled and the young.

Everyone else is expected to work just like the current system - the only difference being is that you have a say in the operation of your company and the company also works for you rather then the market.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
That is insane. Why would anyone become a doctor, lawyer, or ceo when they could be a janitor for close to the same pay. Who in their right mind would study for years, sacrifice their time, etc... when the whole time they could have just kicked back, smoked a little weed, and got a handful of tush. I will tell you what, if you can get me a janitor job for what I get paid I will get rid of the stress and relax while I am cleaning up somebodies puke.

Personally, I would at least like to have the chance to become one of the handful out of a hundred rather than no chance at all. If I fail to succeed then I will sit back and admire the ones that do.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

This is true. For one to better themselves through hard work and lots of studying they need incentive. The incentive has to be enough to motivate. A better job, more pay, a nicer home, a higher rank, all these things motivate and give incentive(not a complete list).

reply to post by John Matrix


and what better incentive is there then to keep the wealth you generate in your own work and to also allow the excess wealth to be used to have a fair and equal society where we all have an equal chance.

For example the 4th international which is the international body as first established by Trotsky for international communism only has a stated aim of nationalism the top 500 companies in the world.

It doesn't demand the total abolition of private enterprise - only the fair distribution of wealth - the workers having a say in their own enterprise and the even handed use of resources for the benefit of all rather then the current system where the few only benefit.

Please see below for a definition of Trotskyism and what it stood for then maybe people will stop associating the Soviet Union and China with real communism

Trotskyists regard themselves as working in opposition to both capitalism and Stalinism. Trotsky advocated proletarian revolution as set out in his theory of "permanent revolution", and believed that a workers' state would not be able to hold out against the pressures of a hostile capitalist world unless socialist revolutions quickly took hold in other countries as well. This theory was advanced in opposition to the view held by the Stalinists that "socialism in one country" could be built in the Soviet Union alone.[3] Furthermore, Trotsky and his supporters harshly criticised the increasingly totalitarian nature of Joseph Stalin's rule. They argued that socialism without democracy is impossible. Thus, faced with the increasing lack of democracy in the Soviet Union, they concluded that it was no longer a socialist workers' state, but a degenerated workers' state.[1]

[edit on 3-4-2009 by count66]

[edit on 3-4-2009 by count66]

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

You are again misguided - where have I supported the oppression of people - another fallacy that you spreading.

Secondly - communism is not an single state solution and was not what Marx, Lenin or Trotsky espoused - that was a Stalinist autocratic ideal as it allowed power to be centralised in one place hence Lenins wish to try and prevent him taking power before his death and also Trotsky attempts to oppose him before he was murdered in Mexico.
.......

Oh please...the only one misguided is you and people like you, who think that by "reading" the Communist manifesto' you have found the perfect utopia...

I have experienced Communism, and i was indoctrinated as a child to uphold those same ideals you have...

Every Communist state is trying to spread the revolution around the world...so every Communist state is trying to do the same thing you are doing...

Castro would send troops, weapons, and money to spread th revolution to other countries, the same thing with Communist Russia with Lenin or after Stalin, the same thing with Communist Chavez all of whom want to spread the revolution "internationally"...

Communists like you claim that the dictatorship will solve it's problems by spreading around the world, which is nothing more than the lies of people who have never experienced the truth of Communism.



[edit on 3-4-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

The whole problem with humanity is the obsession with materialism. It's time for humanity to grow a spiritual backbone and I'm not talking about organized religion. There's enough love to go round for all, but for some reason, humanity only wants to hate something or someone. It's not the system of government that's flawed, it's humanity.