Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

How are you going to get unanimous voting from an entire society? If you took 5 guys, you couldnt get them to unanimously vote on what kind of underwear to buy let alone what direction the entire planet should take.



[edit on 6-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 6-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

by allowing wat we are doing right now the freedom of voicing your opinion a single room of servers could do all the computing needed for the process and as there is already a set of rules ( something like the constitution of america or a deviation of it with unanimity in mind) in place why not use them. i mean honestly the constititution really already has it all in there it is just very unfortunate the way things have and are happening

reply to post by consciencious observer


I dont think the communism you describe is evil. I just dont think it would work in reality. I also believe 2 other things. Any system can and will be corrupted from time to time, and capitalism is a better way to achieve progress for the human species. I also believe that in the USA we dont have true capitalism anymore, because there is too much government interference in the wrong areas. Instead of supporting business our government just interferes with business. The tax laws are ridiculous, the safety standard for employees is ridiculous, and everyone who has anything is having there wealth redistributed to the loosers of the society. We need to go hard core. Just let people and institutions fail when they cant compete. When most people get hungry enough they will find the will to work. I am all for protecting disabled people who cant help themselves, but all this ridiculousness of having generations of people on welfare because they are too lazy to work is out of control.

reply to post by consciencious observer


give me a system that provides for greed better than communism which easily can.

reply to post by consciencious observer


give me a system that provides for greed better than communism which easily can.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


give me one solid irrefutable fact that communism cant work and i will stop right now i will leave this site and stop trying to actually solve the problem instead of be the problem and just wait til the # hits the fan and people are looking for a better way

reply to post by consciencious observer


Its not about greed. Its about achieving things. Money is just one way of measuring success or failure and a method of reward or punishment for your choices and behaviors. Just look at any welfare state and the negative impact it has on the lives of the people who choose to use it. Handing basic needs to people just teaches them to be powerless and government dependant. Its a big problem here is the US, we have way too many people that think government is the solution and not the cause of their problems. A little government is ok. You need some coordination of resources to tackle some problems. However, when you get into punishing peoples success to reward peoples failures (redistribution of wealth) that is just insane. There are people that would give up their freedom just so they dont have to take responsibility for their lives. Its just sad to me.

reply to post by consciencious observer


There is not one irrefutable fact that would convince you that communism wouldnt work in the real world. I understand where you are coming from, on paper its a good idea, but the irrefutable facts I have given you about basic human nature, a limit on resources, etc doesnt play any role in your thinking.

I dont want to discourage you from doing what you think is best for the world. If you can make it a better place, go ahead.

I just think there are too many people ready to throw away their freedom for nothing. I admit Capitalism, in America at least, is broken. It doesnt mean it cant be fixed with better processes and better regulation. It doesnt even need to be government regulation. Investors need to hold the companies they invest in accountable to be financially transparent. When somebody lies about the financial status of their company and rob a bunch of people of their money they need to be publically executed. Its how the Chinese handle it. They have got it so well down there that when a guy gets caught, he just goes ahead and kills himself.

Capitalism is very efficient. It rewards good decisions and punishes bad ones. The thing that we need to realize as a society is sometimes its ok to let people fail. If somebody wants to give that person a hand up based on their own free will then fine. But no one should be forced to pay for drug addicts to get free methadone, or buy food for families where people make a conscious decision not to work, or pay for health care for someone who smoked for 40 years and is dying of lung cancer. We are actually hurting people by trying to save them, because we just encourage their bad behaviors by taking away the consequences of their actions.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


what you must realize is that these lazy are only one of many byproducts of when you give power to the few and they are allowed to run rampant
they want the people to be as fat,lazy, and as stupid as possible ...why you ask??? simply because slow targets are easier to shoot and the ones that survive dont know wat to do because they are to descensitized and ignorant to do anything.

reply to post by consciencious observer


I must disagree. A person chooses to be fat, lazy, and/or stupid. If you were correct than 85% of the world would be fat lazy and stupid, because the other 15% own most everything and have the control.

We live in country where you get a free education. We have libraries full of books. We have jobs that get filled by illegal immigrants, because people in this country would rather be on welfare than work.

There are thousands of stories throughout history of people succeeding despite being in the worst conditions imaginable. Its about personal responsibility and will. As soon as you start to blame your problems on some one else you are well down the path to failure. But if you say, my situation sucks and I am going find a way to change it. It will change. It might not change over night, but over time it will change.

The only way you get fat is if you eat too much and exercise too little.
The only way you get lazy is if you choose not to accomplish what you need to.
The only way you get stupid is if you refuse to learn.

Now I will give you that if you live in some third world dictatorship you might be stupid because you are restricted access to things to help you learn. But in the Western world there is no excuse to be fat, lazy, or stupid.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude



what you dont seem to want to understand that communism is about evolution and that includes human nature there are ways to conquer evil and i am trying to point them out but you for some reason only listen to half of wat i say and for the sake of me not having to repost every arguement we have had go back and trully read everything

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

I must disagree. A person chooses to be fat, lazy, and/or stupid. If you were correct than 85% of the world would be fat lazy and stupid, because the other 15% own most everything and have the control.

We live in country where you get a free education. We have libraries full of books. We have jobs that get filled by illegal immigrants, because people in this country would rather be on welfare than work.

There are thousands of stories throughout history of people succeeding despite being in the worst conditions imaginable. Its about personal responsibility and will. As soon as you start to blame your problems on some one else you are well down the path to failure. But if you say, my situation sucks and I am going find a way to change it. It will change. It might not change over night, but over time it will change.

The only way you get fat is if you eat too much and exercise too little.
The only way you get lazy is if you choose not to accomplish what you need to.
The only way you get stupid is if you refuse to learn.

Now I will give you that if you live in some third world dictatorship you might be stupid because you are restricted access to things to help you learn. But in the Western world there is no excuse to be fat, lazy, or stupid.

yea it doesnt help that big brother decided that physical education doesnt have to be mandatory anymore ( how can people learn the dangers of laziness if they dont have to be taught anything about it)and if you say that the educational system of america even tries to teach their young any sort of factual knowledge then i honestly beg you to try and open your eyes and do some actual research also you still say we have limited resources still ok maybe with our consumption the way it is yea maybe we would have a resource problem but you obvisouly have never heard of is free energy and hey all you have to do to find out about is type those two words into that little teeny tiny box above the page

reply to post by consciencious observer


Dude, I have read everything you have written. But you just decide to overlook anything that may create a problem with your idea. Maybe that is good, sometimes you have to put on blinders to succeed.

I dont really believe in evil, just mental illness and people willing to do more than I am willing to do to win.

Look at some facts or at least pretty strong theories.
1. We are animals, evolved from some form of monkey or ape. I cant remember which.

2. The whole universe and everything in it is based on survival of the fittest. Aka evolution.

3. Evolution has programmed us to be self-centered for our survival, but also to realize if we team up with a bunch of people we can get the other guys before they get us.

4. The only thing that tones this behavior down is religion, but we all have different religions, so we fight about that.

5. The one thing to piss of a human fastest is for some other bunch of people to tell them how they should live.

6. No large group of people can agree on anything without somebody eventually getting tired of giving in.

Its just nature. You cant expect us to be something that we are not created to do. You cant expect a bird to not fly or a fish to not swim, because it is its nature. You cant even expect birds and fish to not harm each other because its their nature to survive at the other ones expense.

The whole universe is set up on winners and loosers. That is how you get optimal species. The best ones move on and reproduce, the other ones die and fade out.

reply to post by consciencious observer


Ok the reason I found this site in the first place is because I love to research about free energy and antigravity stuff. Just because some guy says he created anti gravity or free energy doesnt make it true. There is no way that every single guy that claimed he created free energy was shut down by some government, and now he cant remember how he built the darn thing.

Will human beings one day achieve free energy or a way to reduce mass? Maybe. Has some government already figured out how to create an anti gravity vehicle? Maybe. But there is no way in hell that someone figured out free energy and didnt implement it and make a killing. Even if our government figured it out they would use it, because we could dominate the rest of the world if we found that first.

This is the thing all you conspiracy guys miss. It is way more in the interest of people that hold power to have us achieve stuff than to make us fat, stupid, and lazy. The more we achieve the more they get. The get the benifits of what we create. They get more tax dollars if we can make a profit. They have happier constituents who benefit from these inventions. Dont you think if tomorrow I woke up and found the secret to free energy our Congress and President would be up there by noon claiming that they made the world a better place for everyone.

You said:
"yea it doesnt help that big brother decided that physical education doesnt have to be mandatory anymore ( how can people learn the dangers of laziness if they dont have to be taught anything about it)and if you say that the educational system of america even tries to teach their young any sort of factual knowledge then i honestly beg you to try and open your eyes and do some actual research also you still say we have limited resources still ok maybe with our consumption the way it is yea maybe we would have a resource problem but you obvisouly have never heard of is free energy and hey all you have to do to find out about is type those two words into that little teeny tiny box above the page"

Ok this is a perfect example of blaming someone or something external for our problems. It is not up to big brother or the government to make us exercise. It is up to us. If they dont offer it at school, then its a parents job to teach their kids to exercise and the importance of it. It is a parents job to teach their kids the danger of being lazy. The educational system of America teaches all kinds of facts, because it is in the best interest of the survival of the country to teach science and math and english, etc... Do they sometimes not do the best job, sure. Was it on purpose, probably not. Are history books a bit swayed to our point of view, yes, because writers and book choosers are swayed by their personal world view.

The whole reason the education system in America is behind in some areas is because they are trying to solve a bunch of social problems, caused by people who suck at being parents.

You couldnt pay me enough to be a school teacher. It is ridiculous what they have to go through. A kid should arrive at school with a basic understanding of character, self discipline, food in his belly, a good night sleep, a feeling of well being, an ability to read because his parents read to him, and ability to converse because his parents communicate with him. If he doesnt have that then its his parents fault, no ifs, ands, or butts. If you cant provide a child with that you shouldnt have one.

If you disagree with what your kids are learning you take time to teach them the alternative. My kids go to a Christian school and they teach them creationism. I dont agree with that, so I teach my kids how other people believe in evolution. I dont tell them their teachers are idiots. I dont whine and cry to their teacher. If it bothered me a lot, I would just put them in another school.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude

how have i overlooked anything you or anybody tries to argue i have answered all problems with all positive solutions

and ok here ya go are you ready for this i sure f'ing hope so


1.exactly we evolved from a primitive animal with unintelligent animalistic qualities(fighting over food and territory(your precious resources that are supposedly limited) into an intelligent species so why still act like animals
2. we became as one species the fittest in natures ecosystem
3. evolution also gave us sharing, understanding, love , and creativity and yes unfortunately in the beginning we were primitive and many saw violence/barbarianism as the only way but why let this still be the way.
4.Your right, religion can control the masses it has been proven many times over
hence why religion should only be seen as an individuals belief on why they exist instead of a means to start a fight in the name of god or allah or the many gods that have had their names disgraced in the name of war. the only thing that should be used from religion is the base set of tenants/commandments whatev because hey, they are actually pretty decent ways to live your life.
5.i agree and communism doesnt tell anybody how to live their life or force them to follow certain ideals it simply allows people to get exactly what they put in and truly live their life without worry unless they decide to act negatively thus creating the worry that the society will act unkindly towards them and creating worry within the society because of this individual thinking irrationally
6. very true but honestly if true communism were to take affect and all finally realize that it is no where near the hell that evil created out of utopia then wat real issues would there be left to discuss


tis nature but we have gone above nature we are at the top of the line so you say that just leaves us to fight eachother but please inform me of wat is logical and evolutionary about fighting. a bird would have never flown if it hadnt wanted to in the first place with fish i would like to believe that water breeds life and fish are just the life that this planets watersystems created and these creatures act in such primal ways only because guess wat they are exactly that we are no longer animals but an intelligent species so why resort to primal instincts as far as our creation goes you honestly think we were put here just to destroy the very ecosystem that brought us to power

[edit on 6-4-2009 by consciencious observer]

reply to post by elder693


how can you say you have studied anything about true communism when you still believe that we actually had true communism when it was exactly wat you said it was "so-called" instead of learning from these attempts that true communism is evil why not try and see that true evil destroyed the very idea of communism. you say that the state owns everything once again this is not the way of true communism in true communism the people have control over everything not any one individual or group but the people in its entirety

reply to what I said a way back 1 page or so.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


sry but i really dont feel like getting into a blame game at the moment maybe in one of the nwo threads ( as to which this certain blame game ascertains to)

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

There is not one irrefutable fact that would convince you that communism wouldnt work in the real world. I understand where you are coming from, on paper its a good idea, but the irrefutable facts I have given you about basic human nature, a limit on resources, etc doesnt play any role in your thinking.

I dont want to discourage you from doing what you think is best for the world. If you can make it a better place, go ahead.

I just think there are too many people ready to throw away their freedom for nothing. I admit Capitalism, in America at least, is broken. It doesnt mean it cant be fixed with better processes and better regulation. It doesnt even need to be government regulation. Investors need to hold the companies they invest in accountable to be financially transparent. When somebody lies about the financial status of their company and rob a bunch of people of their money they need to be publically executed. Its how the Chinese handle it. They have got it so well down there that when a guy gets caught, he just goes ahead and kills himself.

Capitalism is very efficient. It rewards good decisions and punishes bad ones. The thing that we need to realize as a society is sometimes its ok to let people fail. If somebody wants to give that person a hand up based on their own free will then fine. But no one should be forced to pay for drug addicts to get free methadone, or buy food for families where people make a conscious decision not to work, or pay for health care for someone who smoked for 40 years and is dying of lung cancer. We are actually hurting people by trying to save them, because we just encourage their bad behaviors by taking away the consequences of their actions.

Once thing that struck me about your argument for capitalism is the following

Capitalism is very efficient. It rewards good decisions and punishes bad ones.

What you might not realize is that a "good" and a "bad" decisions are a matter of perspective and highly subjective. Some decisions in a Capitalistic society might be "good" at the time and very "bad" much later on when new knowledge comes to light. Also the argument for letting people fail is valid, but what about those people who fail from the start due to decisions made by powers greater than them or just fail due to their health. Tobacco companies for years sold cigarettes as actually a healthy product and harmless and actually educated their clients with this propaganda. They concealed the facts proving cigarettes are harmful and causes cancer. That's typical unethical capitalism in order to drives sales and increase the bottom line at the expense of millions of lives...millions!! And this is what Capitalism is doing around the world. Capitalism is best catered to the unethical and scrupulous and for those that have a shred of decency fall behind. That's wrong. We are better than that. Humanities legacy should not be that we killed each other very efficiently in the name of "progress"...meaning money and the greed for it. We are trained and have been for years that money is god and to have more should be our one driving force in a Capitalist society. Over consumption and greed is killing the planet, its killing us. In the past, barbarian tactics served us to the point we are today but we're not barbarians anymore. We're better than that, so I don't accept barbarian philosophy. Our planet is a living organism and we're part of this organism so if we kill each other and ignore the cancer of unethical behavior that is rampant I honestly don't see any hope for us surviving as a collective organism. Old philosophies don't cut it anymore. If you believe in evolution than you must realize that when a something doesn't work it must evolve or die...us along with it.

reply to post by consciencious observer


I am not saying the world cant improve or that we shouldnt all just get along a little better. My point is that YOU have to start your communism joy ride somewhere. So if it starts tomorrow with all the people as they are today it wont work. Now maybe if somehow we spiritually evolve in some way we havent in the last couple hundered thousand years, then it might have a shot. But we:

1. Dont have a planet with every last person in agreement.
2. Dont have androids that can take over the tasks we dont want to do.
3. Dont have spacecraft that can cross the universe and get what ever we run out of around here.
4. Dont have free energy, just because some guy like Searle or the many others that say they discovered it but cant quite recreate it... well maybe they can if you just give them a few bucks for sandwich.

I understand your yearning for a better world, with a little more peace in it. Its a good thing. I am glad you want to help people. So do I. I am glad you want a little more justice for the weak. Me too. Its all good. I am just saying a one world government where everyone gets more or less the same thing will not work. Maybe something will happen and we will all just look out for everyone but ourselves and our families, and maybe we will make great scientific advancements that allows us to make our planet better. But in REALITY we are just not ready as a species to handle it.

Even if we could handle it, and we did it perfectly starting tomorrow... It would eventually cause a de-evolution of our species, over-population, total destruction of the environment, and wiping out most other animals on earth.

Could you imagine if we had 5 or 6 billion cars running around. Nobody would be able to breath.