Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

reply to post by count66


Nothing wrong with the concept. You need to study history to understand reality however. It won't work unless you can change the Human Race with a wave of your hand. The idea totally ignores our weaknesses. When attempted it led to suffering and brutality.

Or did you just mean this as theoretical concept and understand it is not possible?

Originally posted by count66
Why have so many of us for so long in western society in particular and throughout the world supported this system, a system which benefits the few but leaves the masses behind. The whole international financial system runs on debt.

It benefits the few who are willing to do what it takes to succeed.
The masses' laziness reflects this fact.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by projectvxn

 

True communism involves the total decentralisation of power and the withering of the national state.

Power is given back to the people through the control of their own wealth generation.

They also have the ability to determine the future direction of their company, their community and their family through immediate voting and immediate recall of any representatives they put forward to a wider body.

The trully average person doesnt have the understanding to determine the direction of their company or country. This is the problem with the auto companies. They have given too much control and resources to the workers and now they can not compete. This is also the problem with our current President. People voted for a man who told them what they wanted to hear instead of a man who told them what they needed to hear.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Most of the masses don't have access to food, water, education, healthcare on a consistent basis.

This is not laziness, this is due to the fact that 10% of the world own 85% of the wealth.

If you don't have the basics in life you cannot compete with those that do.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I would like to believe that humanity is ready to take the next step in our evolution - to move away from the evolutionary politics of survival of the fittest and to move to a fair and equal society for all.

I think the world is ready for this. Look at the amount of money contributed to charity, the amount of people who volunteer on a regular basis to help those less fortunate then themselves.

I think people are just brainwashed into believing this current system which supports the already wealthy and keeps the rest of us either enslaved in debt or poverty.

The powers that be don't want change - this change would mean that they lose their status and their wealth - they control the media, the governments etc so they can put out the message that any other system would lead to failure.

We need to see the truth of the world we live in - its a travesty and downright demonic the way the world treats the vast majority of people.

A free market is a great idea if we are all playing from the same starting point - otherwise its a fixed race where only the privileged will win

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by TruthParadox

 

Most of the masses don't have access to food, water, education, healthcare on a consistent basis.

This is not laziness, this is due to the fact that 10% of the world own 85% of the wealth.

If you don't have the basics in life you cannot compete with those that do.

Most of the masses dont have access to these things because they live in countries with failed governments and failed political systems.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

If we take a mortgage for example - a bank loans you money and in most countries a bank is allowed to loan up to ten times the value of assets it actually holds.

Therefore a bank gives you money through a computer transaction which it doesn't actually have. 9/10 this money will go to the seller who will use this computer money to pay off their mortgage which was also magic money.

Then you pay your mortgage back with real money and if you can't keep up the repayments the bank repossesses your house - an actual asset for money that it lent you that never existed.

That is the world we live in - its insane.

I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lend something that is worth for collaterol that is..!!! its the perfect scam!! not only that you create debt from debt!!! debt backs the dollar... its the biggest pyramid scheme ever contrived...now I know why a pyramid is on the dollar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


That is exactly why communism cannot work in a single state or a single organisation - if you want to be fair to the ordinary person and worker it needs to take place on an international and grand scale - Trotsky understood this almost a 100 years ago and that is why he vehemently opposed Stalin and his authoritarian single state solution as he knew it was doomed to failure on two fronts a) removing democracy from the people b) with resources being scattered across the globe you cannot treat one worker fairly in one state where the other state will treat the worker like crap and produce a cheaper product.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


I wouldn't agree with you that this is the cause of every countries woe - often the bigger stronger states have encouraged bad governments to get their way with regards to resources or politics particularly during the cold war which lead to war, revolution etc in these countries driving them into poverty and failed states.

These people are now trapped in these situations due to circumstances outside of their control.

reply to post by thefreepatriot


And this is also the reason why the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to get poorer.

This system has to fail or else we will all end up in an authoritarian regimes run by the elites who control all the wealth and resources while the rest of us linger in poverty subsided by the crumbs that the wealthy decide to give us.

The point that was made about the technological revolution will spur this scenario on to becoming reality at an even quicker rate then anyone can imagine.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

I wouldn't agree with you that this is the cause of every countries woe - often the bigger stronger states have encouraged bad governments to get their way with regards to resources or politics particularly during the cold war which lead to war, revolution etc in these countries driving them into poverty and failed states.

These people are now trapped in these situations due to circumstances outside of their control.

I see your point. I do agree that during cold war the US and the USSR backed some bad regimes to gain semi-control of resources and control. But I believe if these states which are currently failing were led by a better set of people with a better set of ideologies they would be able to succeed. It would be nice to see these people get the support they need to overthrow these governments.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


And that where it comes back to all of us getting past nation hood and seeing our fellow human beings in trouble and needing help and be ready and willing to offer it.

To get better regimes people need education to understand what their options are. They need healthcare, housing and food - otherwise they will just vote for the person who will claim to give them these things and often these people tend to be dictators.

When your child is crying with hunger, its not easy to debate politics - you would rather get the easiest solution to feed your child

Originally posted by count66
Most of the masses don't have access to food, water, education, healthcare on a consistent basis.

This is not laziness, this is due to the fact that 10% of the world own 85% of the wealth.

If you don't have the basics in life you cannot compete with those that do.

I was talking about capitalism, not the worlds woes...
So other countries don't have a good system like we do in America, that doesn't make capitalism flawed.
I know for a fact that once I stop being a lazy SOB, I can make something of myself. But until I do, I'm not going to complain about the system when I'm not even utilizing it.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

And that where it comes back to all of us getting past nation hood and seeing our fellow human beings in trouble and needing help and be ready and willing to offer it.

To get better regimes people need education to understand what their options are. They need healthcare, housing and food - otherwise they will just vote for the person who will claim to give them these things and often these people tend to be dictators.


When your child is crying with hunger, its not easy to debate politics - you would rather get the easiest solution to feed your child

When my child is hungry I realize it is my responsibility. I never stop to think "darn I wish the government would feed my family". I start thinking about what I need to do to solve my problem.

I still see your point about some of this being ok, but I just dont seeing it working in the real world. First of all, your new government would have to hunt me down and kill me, because from day 1 I would start sceaming to get more than everyone else. Its just my nature. I love the hunt to get more, to be challenged to achieve. I dont really care about things or money I just like to accomplish stuff and money is a way to measure that.

To be honest, right now I am loosing. But I wake up every day ready to fight to come out winning.

I do see the need to help others, and I do that whenever I can. I just want the choice to help, not be forced to help.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by TruthParadox


I hope that things work out for you when you do.

Unfortunately though you will find that to get anywhere you will first have to get into vast amounts of debt to finance your undertaking - a lot of your earnings will then go towards the financing of this debt.

The point of communism is that you wouldn't have to beg for finance - it should be available, interest free to those who have a viable business idea.

For example why do we pay mortgages with interest? - surely if the state was interested in its citizens, it would set up a state bank and lend money at almost 0% interest - why leave it to the private market who repossess houses at the slightest sign of a missed payment.

Why can't the government bank loan money to businesses which are viable and would support employment at a 0% interest rate - rather then having these viable businesses fold due to a large debt burden.

As an accountant I see this every day - most business fail not because they are not profitable but rather because their cashflow cannot keep up with their outgoings - usually the majority of their outgoings are debt servicing.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by count66]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


You would be the government under a Trotskyite system - you would also earn more then your peers if you were more successful but you would earn within reason - by that I mean how much does a person really need after they have their own house and car - say €70 -80K a year.

The point is why do we pay people millions which they don't deserve or need - its wastage.

reply to post by count66


You can build a business without taking on massive debt. The owners of these companies chose to borrow money for their businesses. It doesnt mean the system is flawed, it just means they took on too much debt. It was a bad decision and they will go bankrupt and someone will buy the assetts and then hopefully make better choices.

Its like everyone thinks someone stuck a gun to all of our heads and made us borrow money. It just isnt true. If we have too much debt it is our own faults. I admit I have too much debt and its my own fault.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by count66


Consider the following:

Radical Islamists.
The Muslim faith will never blend.
China's bastardized version of Communism.
Religious differences and its implications.
Cuba and its version combined with its offshoots in South America.
Organized crime and the Drug Cartels.

China alone is a roadblock that can not be overcome. Do you think they would just role over and its leaders relinquish their absolute power? Only if they were the Dictators would they participate.

Do you believe the Russian leaders would also step aside?

Humanity is not ready. We all wish it was.

No matter how well meaning, there is simply a part of our humanity that will never do their share and will always take and never give. I think the number may be as high as a fourth of us who are just plain bad people. I wish it were different. For now a Democratic system under the rule of law is the best we have for the people we are. Communism has been attempted and even its architects proved to have evil intentions.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


There is a thing in business called economy of scale - whereby you have to invest a certain amount of money before you start getting a return.

Also you have to deal with competition - take for example a business which starts out as a small pharmaceutical company - it makes a wonder drug - it needs to invest in production to produce this drug on the scale for the demand. It invests through debt this money and upscales it production process. Profits go up, employment increases, wage demand grows. Suddenly your exclusive licence to produce the drug expires.

Then your competitors move to China or Africa and pay the workers then next to nothing to produce the same drug - you cannot compete - your costs are high, your debts are high and your sales are dropping.

Your business is viable but has been ruined by the explotation of workers in another state by a competitor.

This scenario happens every day in this world. The mulitnationals move from country to country - creating jobs, providing employment - until they find wage demands are growing - then they shift and move on to the next country - this scenario will continue while we as ordinary workers all ow the multinationals to operate in this way.

reply to post by count66


Ok but you miss the point. Its about freedom and measuring good/bad decisions. Profits are a great way to do this.

Take Warren Buffet. He has made many good decisions and some bad ones too. But he has created wealth for himself and his investors. He has also created/kept in existence many good companies that employ thousands of people. Now he doesnt spend all of his money. In fact, he has a slightly above average house and an average car. Now he is giving away all of his money to charity, by choice. But that is the point. He should have the ability to make that choice because he has succeeded beyond almost every other person.


[edit on 3-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]