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House Approves New Controls on Tobacco in United States - Summary

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posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
I don't understand what changed with smoking to demand new government attention? I mean are smokers suddenly breaking into homes, setting courts ablaze, and beating ESL children? Why in an industry that hasn't changed much and been around since before this country originated (and also one of the main reasons this country became successful) is the government now deciding to do a cannon ball right in the middle of? I am a smoker but it makes absolutely no sense. Did cigarettes suddenly get way more powerful, is there hydroponics cigarettes now, are people mixing tobacco and baking soda? I don't understand why the FDA and the Federal Government suddenly gets to jump on this industry and on my right to make my own choices.

However, it's good thing. Jack up the prices to $50. Pretty soon Cigarettes will be more expensive than pot and I'll just smoke more untaxed patriotic marijuana. Everyone wins in that scenario except the kids, but like the government really gives a # about them anyway.


[edit on 3-4-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]


The answer is simple: Cigarettes are the most socially divisive vice. Nobody cares if their neighbor gets fat from fast food, and nobody cares if their neighbor gets drunk every night. But most people have been around a non-considerate smoker. I realize that the majority of smokers are probably polite, considerate people, but it's because of these few that aren't that the establishment can get away with this. It's not right, and it's not American, but it's fact.




posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by sos37
 


It's added funding that will allow for an expantion of SCHIP.

Right now they insure about 7 million children and the expantion (funded by cigarette taxes) will allow them to insure an additional 4 million children.

So basically if i'm ever smoking outside any parent that passes by and has one of those additional children on SCHIP should tell their child to thank the nice lady that pays for your health insurance, because even though they try to tell the public that it's a federally funded program it's not. It's a smoker's funded program paid for with the money that they steal out of our pockets


Now let's see how concerned they really are about our health, because if they are they'll force them to take out the additives.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Smoking may be terrible for the body but what business is it of the government what an individual ingests, inhales, etc unless in their altered state they infringe the rights of another? I'm not a smoker myself but I've watched as their rights to do as they wish have been infringed over the years, to ridiculous lengths in some places.

And now the Federal government is getting involved, used to be States had lots of rights, but everybody is begging Mother government for help these days (the founding fathers would be sickened). The voice of the people has truly been drown out, now only the lobbyists, special interests, and powers that be behind the scenes have true power...

Hopefully we'll wake up in time to fan the dying flames of liberty back into a roaring fire.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Yeah, this is insane, these cigarette taxes are KILLING me, oh wait its actually the cigarette that is killing me. Sorry, I had to make a joke.

I'm an ex-tobacco smoker and I dont care if people want to smoke. We all make choices and should be free to make them and do not need to be regulated as to what we can and cannot do.

On a side note. If tobacco is taxed high enough, wont it create a black market? I mean if cigarettes are taxed to the point of being $20/pack, there is now a market for me to grow and sell my own tobacco. Would you start to see more cigarette related crime. People shooting and robbing to get money to buy smokes. I wonder what the breaking point is for smokers, as to when they will start breaking the law in order to get the fix.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by jackieps1975
 


What burns me is this notion that we smokers are a drain on the health care system. Excuse me, but I pay into the system - I have insurance through my employer and I pay every TAX under the sun!

They also say that we miss work more often - bull! I miss work less than my young, thin non- smoking boss! She misses alot (as do some other young, thin, non-smokers I work with) due to having sick kids at home - or having to take the kids to the dentist, or doctor or participating in an event with the kid at school etc.

I argue: so what if they have to pay more for me in my old age because I am a smoker. I have had to pay more all my life via increases in all sorts of taxes to pay for their children because every time they raise taxes federal, state or local it is for the children. I have spent my entire adult life paying for schools, parks, skate board parks, bike trails, soccer fields, kids museums etc - for what - for the children! I mean it seems every other year they are closing a school then building a brand new one for millions at tax payer expense. But now they might begrudge helping me pay for my health care in my older years because I smoked!!

Talk about ungrateful! What kind of lesson is this teaching your kids?! S**t all over people that have helped pay for your education and cultural activities.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 05:07 AM
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One of the reasons such things as this come into existence it to continually reinforce dictatorial authority of the "Fed" to the State. The big dog has to continually bark the loudest to feel it is in authority and to guarantee submissiveness of the underlings. That's really the only reason these jokes are perpetrated on humanity.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by skeptic1
 


Smoking may be terrible for the body but what business is it of the government what an individual ingests, inhales, etc unless in their altered state they infringe the rights of another? I'm not a smoker myself but I've watched as their rights to do as they wish have been infringed over the years, to ridiculous lengths in some places.

And now the Federal government is getting involved, used to be States had lots of rights, but everybody is begging Mother government for help these days (the founding fathers would be sickened). The voice of the people has truly been drown out, now only the lobbyists, special interests, and powers that be behind the scenes have true power...

Hopefully we'll wake up in time to fan the dying flames of liberty back into a roaring fire.


I'm not sure I can add anything to this, because you summed up my thoughts so well I don't need to type any more. Star for you.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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I am sitting here wondering about all of these taxes, the old and new.

Everything we eat, drink, smoke (some of you) and wear is taxed, multiple times.

The grower / maker is taxed. The person he sells it to is taxed for it. The wholeseller is taxed on it. The retailer is taxed on it. The consumer is taxed on it.

Then there's the property taxes. Income taxes - state and federal where I live. Car tax. Dog tax (for real). Livestock tax.

What else is taxed?

I wonder how much of my income is actually taxed? I know that we have to have taxes to have our infrastructure and all, but does it really have to be this much?



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by jam321
 


That's what I wonder.

They make us pay all these taxes to support children's healthcare on the one hand, and the other hand is trying to regulate tobacco and tax it to the point where no one can afford it.

It makes no sense.


They're trying to walk a fine line.
They don't want to ban smoking all together due to the massive revenue smokers bring in.

The reality is that the smokers have given the government the EXCUSE to regulate cigarettes and smoking for that matter.

Just like those who are complaining about the government regulating private business bonuses. Everyone but those execs at AIG KNEW that accepting those tax payer subsidized bonuses was a STUPID idea but since they refused to act in a reasonable manor, it gave the government the EXCUSE to step in.

Smokers have done the same thing. Since many of them have refused to police themselves around non-smokers, they've given the government the EXCUSE to step in and police their behavior for them.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 07:15 AM
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Lets see, Tobacco companies have added 70 cents to a pack of cigs, My state added another 1.00 tax, and now the Fed Govt. added 71 cents. I say legalize marijuana and tax that. Leave tobacco alone for a while.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 08:34 AM
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Here are a few facts from the U.S Dept. of Justice

About three million violent crimes (including rapes and sexual assaults; robberies; and aggravated and simple assaults) occur each year in which the victims perceive the offender to have been drinking at the time of the offense; about two-thirds of these crimes are characterized as simple assaults.

1.4 million incidents of alcohol-related violence are committed against strangers

Among violent crimes the offender is far more likely to have been drinking than under the influence of other drugs, with the exception of robberies where other drugs are as almost as likely to have been used as alcohol.

Nearly half a million incidents of violence between intimates involve offenders who have been drinking; in addition, 118,000 incidents of family violence (excluding spouses) involve alcohol, as do 744,000 incidents among acquaintances.


Can you say the same for smokers?

But you can't tax the hell out of alcohol because that would directly affect our politicians. It would be interesting to see what percentage of our 'Representatives' consume alcohol but don't smoke.

I've always wondered who these politicians represent. How can they pass these taxes and laws without "We the People" knowing and publically speaking about it until it's too late?



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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I would take such legislation in a positive light and try to motivate yourself into a change that may benefit you in the future. Some people have already hinted at it in this thread, but I just want to re-emphasise it further. Those of you who enjoy smoking and are not appreciative of these legislative changes may want to seriously learn how to grow it yourselves. Not just to work around the rules that are now being implemented, but because you should learn to take care of your own needs. Even if you have to build an artificial environment to cultivate the plants.

With the state that the world is in... drawn out wars, economic collapse, globalisation, saber rattling revolutions... You may become very greatful in the future that you know how to grow and make your own cigarettes. Many others will likely appreciate you for your skills too.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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maybe you all should just stop smoking
or at least smoke less, your lungs will thank you

buy a pack, smoke less and keep them in the fridge so they don't go stale



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 



I mean if cigarettes are taxed to the point of being $20/pack, there is now a market for me to grow and sell my own tobacco. Would you start to see more cigarette related crime. People shooting and robbing to get money to buy smokes. I wonder what the breaking point is for smokers, as to when they will start breaking the law in order to get the fix.



And there it is in a nutshell, that's what they're waiting for. When they tax them so high that people start committing crimes to get them, then they will have an excuse to make them illegal that the people will agree with, they've already villainized us to the majority of the public. All that needs happen now is for cigarette related crimes to start occuring, and the public will gladly go along with outlawing them.

Then cigarettes can become an official part of the war on drugs (they already are, people just don't know it, hence the outragious taxes) and they can make even more money.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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I think this new tax is ridiculous. Fortunately for me pipe tobacco was not hit as hard, though I do sympathize with cigarette smoker being unable to afford this bit of enjoyment in life for a reasonable price.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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I do sympathize with you smokers and as you have seen have argued for you. I stopped several years ago just for the price it was then.

When the price is raised so much that people quit/deal black market and quit buying all together. I hope to hades that they raise taxes on food 50-60% if you weight over 190. Make entire households report to the grocery store and weigh in. If you have an overweight child tax the parents for child endangerment.

Let this take the place of smoking taxes when everyone quits. Mark my word that when this universal healthcare comes in (and it will). People will be penalized for anything that makes your health worse. Whom is going to argue with not overburdening the health system for your bad habits? Then it goes to the kids again with fat kids being a pointer.

I can give you a clue in this...My mom's health insurance company requires that she have a gym membership. Guess what also...her plan covers slightly less because she is a chubby woman.






[edit on 3-4-2009 by toochaos4u]



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by toochaos4u
Let this take the place of smoking taxes when everyone quits. Mark my word that when this universal healthcare comes in (and it will). People will be penalized for anything that makes your health worse. Whom is going to argue with not overburdening the health system for your bad habits? Then it goes to the kids again with fat kids being a pointer.

I can give you a clue in this...My mom's health insurance company requires that she have a gym membership. Guess what also...her plan covers slightly less because she is a chubby woman.


I'm all for restricting smoke to special areas even in your own home if you have kids. I'm also for having more expensive health coverages for fat or unhealthy lifestyle people - those who smoke a lot, drink a lot, overeat, do not exercise. unless you have a hormonal disorder that's not your fault, you should have to pay more because you don't care for your body so if you wanna kill yourself then you have to pay for being kept alive instead of increasing the bill for all of us who eat well and stay healthy. oh and those who overfeed their kids or feed them junk food and sicken them should be charged with child abuse.

the solution as i see it would be - you take some regular tests (blood, urine, physical) if you want the health insurance. if you refuse then you'll have to pay full price for every visit to the doctor as your health insurance will be dropped or severely reduced. why should anyone support someone else's unhealthy lifestyle?



posted on Apr, 4 2009 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 



Quit being such a crybaby and grow your own



Yes that will work for now, but it won't work if it gets passed.

If this makes it all the way tobacco will become regulated by the FDA and then it will be illegal for us to grow our own.



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