Religion? Grow up

Originally posted by asmall89
About NDE's they do not necessarily have all naturalistic explanations, the most often explanation is '___' but it is only a theory. The capacity to make it in the brain exists but they have no way of proving the theory to be true. There was a case I read about in a recent thread about a woman who was Brain & Vitally dead during a surgery and had an NDE and could recall coversations and the tools used. Also '___' is a drug and like every other drug it is carried through the body by blood, how could it get around if the heart has stopped beating? Same with adrenaline. NDE's are perhaps the biggest mystery and to this day do not have not been proven to be naturalistic.

If you really want to get into the NDE discussion, I am obliged to point out that all the things that are reportedly experienced in NDEs have been recreated in the lab by manipulating parts of the brain, replicating the shutting down of a dying brain. But I really can't be arsed debating NDE's - there are threads around.

I must also bring your attention to someone close to me who is a neurologist and has done a lot of research and has worked with a major government organization (I will remain mum on which one) and she still believes in a God. Same with another I know a respected scientist & researcher, is religious.

That proves? That intellectual people can be religious? Sure why the hell not.

Originally posted by Thelast
As a person who claims no religion, I understand why it's important.

As it's been stated, some people need faith to get through their lives.
Something beyond what they are.

Translation: Delusions make people comfortable, so we should "let them be delusional."

They, like the rest of us, are just looking for answers to existence.

Translation: Too stupid and too incapable to understand the natural world, religious folks need to invent some alternative reality to justify their worthless existence.

I will agree with you that many of the messages have probably been lost in translation, and as a result, the taint of man-made agendas have corrupted what could have been the word of God.

Translation: Religious people don't have "divine" books, "holy" scrolls, or "supernaturally inspired writings" that represent some supernatural force that is apparently not supernatural enough to deliver a message itself, so it uses schizophrenic people as prophets.

Don't understand what I'm saying?

(Don't worry, I translated everything for you.)

Did you every play the whisper game as a kid? Where something was said from one person to the next, until it went around in a circle?
It usually came back as something completely different than what was originally said.

It is humanity. We who tried to shape the message to meet our goals.

Translation: In following with the analogy, it is all too clear that religion is started by man, promulgated by man, and has about as much truth/morality in it as a bazooka bubble gum wrapper.

I'm ready to grow up I'm blowin my birthday candels out....

Where do I start, ahhhh yes well as you can tell from my name I'm texan so I'm gunna do the opposite of what are state usually does and give a small answer...


I've read the last two pages and id just like to say is that no matter what you belive in it is still called faith and we don't know everything infact the human race probably understands 1% of this solar system so don't even think 1 person could understand the secrets of the universe and if you do id love to call you god and get your email and talk all about it... atheism is not religion they don't have faith in anything 100% not even being good christians don't even believe in being good 100% so its all about faith belive in something and hold it true to your heart and when that one day comes and its your time then we might understand what this # is all about

Originally posted by Ezkl 16
If moral values are just a process of evolutionary process then the there is no such thing as objective moral values. When the murder of little kids for fun is called "wrong" or "bad" in actuality nothing can be meant more by it than "i dont like that" or "thats not helping humans survive".

On the other hand if there are objective moral values the Christian worldview is the only one that can account for unchanging, immaterial, universal moral laws.

But they do change, and not everyone - even inside of a particular culture - has the same morals. Morals are imposed on us, we inherit them from our experiences as a child, just like large brain animals do. Morals start out as a logical "you help me, I help you" situation. Anthropologists believe that the "Golden Rule" is the first social moral, since almost ever society has had it's own version of it. Every religion has an explanation of morals, not just Christianity. Don't be so narrow minded.

[edit on 4-4-2009 by Welfhard]

I am christian and not even christianity is perfect because there's athiests and buddihst but one thing I do know is that the is a high being all creator (god for me) but allah to others and the thing is no one on earth is right nor can be right about religion and the only one that can be is whoever mad the universe ...

That being said if your athiest and you sneeze ill make sure to say # you and die instead of bless you but that would corrispond with my belief in the golden rule even though you don't believe what I believe

Originally posted by Dallas87
That being said if your athiest and you sneeze ill make sure to say # you and die instead of bless you but that would corrispond with my belief in the golden rule even though you don't believe what I believe

What the hell are you on about?

what would the world be like with out religion .so remember this is just my thoughts on it . i bet there would be alot more people around just because of the fact that look how many people have died because of religion in the past.and again this is just my thoughts i bet if you had to do a chart on all the good and bad things that all religion has done for mankind i would bet there is more bad by far it has done then good for mankind .and the other part to my post is people might say they are atheist because there isn't any other word to say what we are so we are stuck with that one to describe some what how we feel/and when was there a time when mas were killed because of be "atheist" never now religion cant say that

Originally posted by Thelast
As it's been stated, some people need faith to get through their lives.

This is true. Just as some need another hit on the crack pipe. It is a craving - an addiction, and a preventable one at that.

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by Thelast
As it's been stated, some people need faith to get through their lives.

This is true. Just as some need another hit on the crack pipe. It is a craving - an addiction, and a preventable one at that.

Lol, we have a saying where I come from. (it originated from Trailer Park Boys)


"BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaamm!!"


........."Peanut butter and JAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaamm!!"

reply to post by Welfhard


Alright since you seem to know quite a bit about the NDE subject, I ask you which part did they replicate more the out of body experience, or the part that comes afterward? I mean honestly I've read stories of people being dead from 2 hours to a day or more, does any drug really last that long? (answer: no) I mean aren't your cells supposed to start dieing the moment you die?

Ok then try this one, intention. I remember watching a documentary about it called "What the Bleep Do We Know?"
www.youtube.com...)

About how our intention affects everything we perceive in this world. They found that water blessed by a Hindu monk was different molecule shape than water that had not been blessed. This being all related to the latest Quantum Physics. The most cutting edge theories in scientific philosophy.

reply to post by asmall89

Alright since you seem to know quite a bit about the NDE subject, I ask you which part did they replicate more the out of body experience,

Firstly, if you shut down the back of the brain where sight is processed, you start to loose areas of your visual field, often resulting in tunnel vision complete with what appears to be a bright light at the end of it.

In other places, you can get the feelings of euphoria and extreme easiness/peace and apathy.

In some lab experiments they have been able to replicate the mythic "outer body experience."

I'm not going to spoon feed you this stuff. NEDs aren't hard to investigate on your own accord.

I mean honestly I've read stories of people being dead from 2 hours to a day or more, does any drug really last that long? (answer: no)

It doesn't have to. Under unusual circumstances, your perception of time can go all out of whack.

I mean aren't your cells supposed to start dying the moment you die?

Well technically your cells begin to die after about ten minutes, the effect of which is such strange experiences like seeing tunnels, euphoria, being at piece etc.

reply to post by Welfhard


I have studied it, I've read numerous stories watched videos and what not. I'm was just merely asking about them stimulating the brain part (which I read). From what I read they really only could induce the OBE not the later part of going down the tunnel & seeing dead relatives and religious figures. Granted someone did get closer results when giving people '___' but from people who have had NDE's seem to think NDE's are more vivid than just a drug trip. Yes Time Distortion does happen I'm aware of that, I was speaking in real time, people have been dead from 2 hours to a day or more and had an experience throughout the hole thing. No blackness no dark void, a vivid experience that lasted the whole 2 hours to a day or more in real time. When you die time simply doesn't exist, which is why people think they had been gone for weeks when it was only a couple hours.

Originally posted by asmall89
people have been dead from 2 hours to a day or more and had an experience throughout the hole thing.

No they think they have been experiencing through the whole thing, but testimony shows that when people are dead for under ten minutes, they have may have had experiences that seemed to span hours. Ergo people have experiences for upwards of 20 minutes which seem to be a few hours, and after a real few hours are revived, and aren't aware of the time dilation.

You need to look at more skeptical science. Studying testimony where people say "I can't explain it" then no real explanation is given makes it seem as if it is inexplicable, when that just isn't true. Most of the NDE experience is explainable as the brain shutting down, and can be recreated as such >>> so there is no way anyone can honestly use it as "proof" of anything supernatural.

It's like saying "why does rain fall?" or "why is the sky blue?". It's an argumentative fallacy.

reply to post by Welfhard


Whatever, I still find NDE's amazing as human and animal life, and according to that video about Quantum Physics (that everyone should watch!) I posted it says that anything in life is possible because we can make it so. They even say that according to quantum physics with intention it would be possible to walk on water but you would have believe and intend it with every fiber of your being. Whoa, now doesn't that sound familiar?!?!?! Oh yeah it's called faith! We are creators of our own world, and the universe is the creator of us. This could suggest a certain intelligence to the universe. Maybe you should actually watch that video and you'd understand what kind of "skeptical science" I actually read into. '___' or what not might explain how, but it doesn't explain why.

reply to post by asmall89


Quantum physics says the we may put a hand through a wall - but the chances are - well, quantum. Infinitesimally small - negligible.

reply to post by Welfhard


Your point? If humans did not believe that they could change the world we live in then what is the point in living? The chances may be infinitely small but the point is its possible. No dream is impossible just improbable. Whats the probability of a kid becoming a leader or a celebrity? Really small, but if one believes enough and tries enough they can do it. The worst thing to tell a child or anyone for that matter is that their hopes and dreams are impossible. If someone wants to try to put their hand through a wall, let them try, who knows they may do the improbable.

reply to post by asmall89


Manipulation of quantum physics is not an ability people can develop. What controls the particles is not influenced by our will.

Your point?

My point is that it's not going to happen. Do you know what infinitesimally small means?

If someone wants to try to put their hand through a wall, let them try, who knows they may do the improbable.

I wouldn't advise it. If they managed, the wall will become part of the arm. It would need to be amputated.

If humans did not believe that they could change the world we live in then what is the point in living?

Ah hah. There is the hole that people use religion for.

Holes:
www.dresdencodak.com...

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


Maybe if you'd watch the video you'd understand it better... by writing an intention on a glass of water (like Love, Thank You, etc.) The water molecule changed its shape! That is proof we have an effect on our world with our intentions! That's not a gap, you obviously believe in something or else you would do nothing, seriously do you even believe you exist?

Originally posted by asmall89
reply to post by Welfhard

 

you obviously believe in something or else you would do nothing,

Well with an assumed conclusion like that, how could you possibly be wrong?

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
Telling people to "grow up," simply because you have it all figured out, is a bit disturbing to me.

I think you missed the point of the OP...
He/she was telling people to grow up because NO ONE can know, and people shouldn't pretend to. They are only fooling themselves and all others who are likewise fooling themselves. It's a game people play, most without even realizing it. Imagination is not an indicator of truth, only imagination.