It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Guuzorz
1) It's recognized by the Grand Lodge of France. Why do you consider them fake Masons if the French Grand Lodge considers them Masonic brothers?
They teach the same doctrines as you. Liberty, equality, brotherhood, pro-civil liberties, anti-racism, etc. How, then, are they "evil" and "satanic" to you?
They teach the same doctrines as you. Liberty, equality, brotherhood, pro-civil liberties, anti-racism, etc. How, then, are they "evil" and "satanic" to you? Especially since they're your brothers, not only in Masonry but in mankind. I fail to see how unrecognition of them is Masonic conduct.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
It is not recognized by the National Grand Lodge of France, which is the regular body. It was actually the Grand Orient of France that closed those rites, back in the late 19th century.
Originally posted by RuneSpider
Basically, in mainstream Masonry the Memphis Misraim Rite is retired in the States.
Originally posted by Guuzorz
But what makes the Grand Lodge of France irregular (according to the UGLE, which apparently you consider the body that decides who is and isn't a Mason, which seems very un-masonic to me), as opposed to the National Grand Lodge of France?
Who decides what Masons are and aren't mainstream?
There are Memphis-Misraim lodges that work those rites, who don't abide by the Grand College. What makes them automatically irregular, if they abide by all the core Masonic principles, consider you brothers, and are recognized by most French Masons?
And I've browsed Mason forums, many members consider Memphis-Misraim "a form of Satanism and Thelema thinly guised as Masonry."
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by Guuzorz
They are neither evil nor satanic. Most Masonic bodies simply considered them money-making scams. Both rites invented a hundred degrees, and then gave those degrees to anyone who could pay for them. The regular Masonic bodies saw this as a fraud.
Sorry 14, but there, you have gone too far!
Paying for degrees !!!!!!
Excuse me, If this might have been some cases back then, was it really the only reason why these rites were dismantled ?
But could anyone tell us how it cost being admitted Shriners with the 32nd that come along ?????
What is it, to take profanes Make them EA, FC and MM the same day ????
In Memphis-Misraim, don't expect to be Master Mason in the same day you enter Apprentice. A lot of work. Degrees are given only if works are done and provided to the lodge and miminal attendance to meetings, many would consider maximal.
They are very serious Masons.
View link provided in my previous post.
Not even true they admit women, some lodges do, others don't. Some Grand Lodges do others don't.
Sorry again, Grande de Loge France is a regular masonic body. They respect all the landmarks and customs. UGLE doesn't recognize them, but not on the base of their regularity.
Grande Loge de France deals only with Scottish rite, Their Supreme Council is fully recognized but their blue Lodges are not.
Grande Loge Nationale Française, UGLE recognized, is working with many rites, mainly Emulation work witch is the same as UGLE. In France, they are the fringe masonry.
This is all politics, since UGLE recognize only one masonic body for a single jurisdiction. BUT exception has been made in USA with Prince Hall Grand Loge. I guess they should do the same with France with GLdF (Grande Loge de France) and GLNF (Grande Loge Nationale Française).
Grand Loge of Minnesota was about to recognise GLdF a few years ago, they changed their mind after being pressured.
I repeat, this all about politics.
I have seen so many brethren from UGLE recognized lodges visiting so-called irregular or co-masonic organisations. This is a practical joke.
Grand Lodge Alpina from switzwerland have ambivalent behavior for so long. It didn't stop the world turning.
I would laught at that if it wasn't that brethren have to hide their visits, check if they haven't been followed by other members of their lodge and being reported.
I have seen on a masonic blog; a Georges Washington Union bro: being called Bogus mason. EVEN IF the guy Was doing twice a month 600 miles to attend a meeting. Some Bros with a smaller towe rope, don't even show up.
Hypocrisy reigns, since some masonics structure are not recognized because ties with unregular or co-masonic organisations, at the end members do what they want.
In France, and lodges under; Grand Orient de France, Grande Loge de France, and Droit Humain can visit one each others.
IMO, Recognition has a lot to do about politics. Their 33rd degrees meet ones each others, but forbid their members to do the same.
I said,
Originally posted by Nimrod
Paying for degrees !!!!!!
Excuse me, If this might have been some cases back then, was it really the only reason why these rites were dismantled ?
But could anyone tell us how it cost being admitted Shriners with the 32nd that come along ?????
What is it, to take profanes Make them EA, FC and MM the same day ????
In Memphis-Misraim, don't expect to be Master Mason in the same day you enter Apprentice. A lot of work. Degrees are given only if works are done and provided to the lodge and miminal attendance to meetings, many would consider maximal.
Not even true they admit women, some lodges do, others don't. Some Grand Lodges do others don't.
I would laught at that if it wasn't that brethren have to hide their visits, check if they haven't been followed by other members of their lodge and being reported.
In France, and lodges under; Grand Orient de France, Grande Loge de France, and Droit Humain can visit one each others.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Nevertheless, I can find no evidence that the Grand Lodge of France recognizes Memphis or Mitzraim.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by Guuzorz
1) It's recognized by the Grand Lodge of France. Why do you consider them fake Masons if the French Grand Lodge considers them Masonic brothers?
It is not recognized by the National Grand Lodge of France, which is the regular body. It was actually the Grand Orient of France that closed those rites, back in the late 19th century.
They teach the same doctrines as you. Liberty, equality, brotherhood, pro-civil liberties, anti-racism, etc. How, then, are they "evil" and "satanic" to you?
They are neither evil nor satanic. Most Masonic bodies simply considered them money-making scams. Both rites invented a hundred degrees, and then gave those degrees to anyone who could pay for them. The regular Masonic bodies saw this as a fraud.
Originally posted by RuneSpider
The UGLE is the head o mainstream Masonry, and because they are the head o mainstream Masonry, they hold what is and is not regular.
However, like I said, there are various other Grand Lodges, such as the Grand Lodge of All England, who hold that the United Grand Lodge is not regular.
As or the rite, I've heard various bits about it, mostly that it's considered a degree peddling rite system, capitalizing on the fascination with Egypt at the period of it's inception.