Flint, Michigan: Government Considering Abandoning Parts of City, Cutting Off Police & Fire Service

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Star 4 U!

I really don't think people realize the Autos impact on all phases of society...

As he re-interated...

Car Stereos..Amplifiers...CD players...speakers...

Emerging Consumer Video Systems...

Cb's...Rims's...Tires...Acc's...

[edit on 4/2/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Star 4 U!

I really don't think people realize the Autos impact on all phases of society...

As he re-interated...

Car Stereos..Amplifiers...CD players...

Emerging Consumer Video Systems...

There is no understating the value to the American economy of the Automotive manufacturing segment.

Most people have no idea of the staggering wealth it generates and how it permeates itself throughout the fabric of American life.

For many people a brand new car will be their single largest purchase in life.

For almost all the rest it will be their second largest purchase in life next to their own home.

Unlike a home that one single purchase might last you a lifetime, cars have a trading life of about 3 to 7 years depending on the prosperity of the times and the person.

A person living to old age enjoying a modest life might trade vehicles 20 times. When it's an American Car they are buying 80% of what they have spent will end up right back into the American economy in some shape or form within six months.

We live in a frustrated and angry society right now that would love to hang just about everything and anything in efigy, but I am sad and sorry to say that hanging GM, Chrysler and Ford is pretty much akin to hanging yourself.

America truly would not be in this predicament today if we hadn't gone down import road and bought our own products even during cycles where they lagged behind, and we didn't destroy the collective bargaining power of unions in that process. There were be no astronomical trade imbalances and no reason for the Financial Sector to have to take the lead economic engine role in an economy it was only meant to support and not drive.

You drive cars, not banks!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If the city decided to do this it would be the first major contraction of a US city in history... New Orleans shrank in population as have many others... but to abandon portions of a city... to retreat as it were would be a significant development.

Death begins at the edges.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

If the city decided to do this it would be the first major contraction of a US city in history... New Orleans shrank in population as have many others... but to abandon portions of a city... to retreat as it were would be a significant development.

Death begins at the edges.

It really is a truly ominous development. All the wealth that does exist in this world, and all the grant money our Federal Government loves to hand out and we can't even rescue on of America's most historic and productive cities?

It sure isn't the tidings Flint would wish for, and but for the grace of luck, where Flint goes so could we all.

To all my fellow Michiganders

Lets put up a toll gate on our border and call it.

Ted Nugents Hunting Park

Then we can all work for uncle Ted and maintain the park!!

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
To all my fellow Michiganders

Lets put up a toll gate on our border and call it.

Ted Nugents Hunting Park

Then we can all work for uncle Ted and maintain the park!!

You must first prove you can do the Wango Tango!

Frankly I am amazed since this is a conspiracy site no one has thrown this out there yet...could Flint and Detroit's downfall be Woody's revenge against Bo?

Lets get this thread really heated up! This is all part of the Buckeye's plan to destroy the Wolverine's once and for all!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

America truly would not be in this predicament today if we hadn't gone down import road and bought our own products even during cycles where they lagged behind,

This kind of attitude is the source of the cancer that has taken down the American auto industry.
For too long, without much outside competition, the people in the industry got fat and came to expect the gravy train to continue without them actually deserving it. It got to the point where the only people who could afford an American car were those working in that industry. The rest of us without those wages were priced out.
So yes, when the imports came along, with lower prices and better quality, we bought them. Ford or GM never put a dime on my dinner plate and I owe them or the fat cat workers whose wages were way out of line for the work they did, nothing!
Don't whine if you can't compete. You were happy to take our money for crap products when you could; now you whine because someone else who gives better product for the dollar is doing better. Well tough cheese.
Either get on with doing a better job or move over for those who will.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Frankly I am amazed since this is a conspiracy site no one has thrown this out there yet...could Flint and Detroit's downfall be Woody's revenge against Bo?

Lets get this thread really heated up! This is all part of the Buckeye's plan to destroy the Wolverine's once and for all!

ArgHHHH

Those buckeyes!! I think your right. They want to roast a wolverine so bad they have there forks ready! M go Blue!

Michigan we should vote uncle Ted in for Gov.

Wango Tango....Baby!

reply to post by wayno


Sorry but the Japanese research and development is subsidized by there Government because they dont have the biggest military the planet has ever seen.

The American car industry could not compete because of this.

I was selling cars in the 90's and was on the front line. The car business was diving in 2000 really hard and greenspan rose the rate at the same time gas prices rose a bit. They did this because the Big three were reporting good sales.

The crux of the matter was that the industries customer was the dealers and we were lagging hard. There is a three month lag from wht the industry reports and what you se at the showroom.

I said at the time that this is it, the economy is going to crash with ten years, the timing is off and the combination created a domino effect until the housing bubble bnurst and now its all crashing down.

Its always the car business that has been putting food on your table.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

Ted's definately a genius, but ... there's still something vaguely uncomfortable about his 'attitude' -


In view of all this, I really don't know if the 'hunting park' is such a great idea ...

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

America truly would not be in this predicament today if we hadn't gone down import road and bought our own products even during cycles where they lagged behind,

This kind of attitude is the source of the cancer that has taken down the American auto industry.
For too long, without much outside competition, the people in the industry got fat and came to expect the gravy train to continue without them actually deserving it. It got to the point where the only people who could afford an American car were those working in that industry. The rest of us without those wages were priced out.
So yes, when the imports came along, with lower prices and better quality, we bought them. Ford or GM never put a dime on my dinner plate and I owe them or the fat cat workers whose wages were way out of line for the work they did, nothing!
Don't whine if you can't compete. You were happy to take our money for crap products when you could; now you whine because someone else who gives better product for the dollar is doing better. Well tough cheese.
Either get on with doing a better job or move over for those who will.

Hey I sure can appreciate your sentiments I hear that alot.

A couple things you might want to consider. Had more Americans unionized they would have had salaries on par with the auto workers and been better able to afford the products.

Being a union member, whether it was a Coal, Electricians, Carpenter, Plumber, Movers, Actors, Musicians, etc., etc., took some real risk, sacrifice, paying dues, strking and going unpaid from time to time to acheive a better standard of living.

Don't you whine if you were to afraid or lazy to do that, to trusting in who was paying you cheap wages and to gulliable to all these years later still not know that imports aren't pound for pound, dollar to dollar cheaper or better, just better branded thanks to technocratic snobs who would rather give their American dollars to some foreign company errantly to save a few pennies or to make a self defeating and counter productive political statement.

My paternal grandfather grew up in a family of 12 in Pittsburgh PA, his Dad was a miner in the coal mines feeding his family on 2.00 dollars a week, at the same moment in history when Andrew Cargnegie ordered his private security force to fire point blank into striking coal miners killing several to bust up their pickets. Not one man charged, but quite a few men dead.

My grandfather thanks to the help of his own close knit family, all of them working night and day put each other through college one at a time. He earned a PHD in Mettalurgy and became the Superintendent and Cheif Metalurgist of one of Pittsburgh's biggest steel mills.

His message to corporate management...let the workers unionize and pay them a living wage, productivity and quality will go up, and more than cover any lost profits in paying a higher wage. By that period unions were on the upswing. Where you catch up with history is when Unions were on the down swing under constant attack from Kennedy's time on, in part turning them into political orginizations in the process that hurt productivety.

You are talking about your personal lack of knowledge about history, and what Unions really did to create the economic prosperity of this nation. When this nation's economy was at it's post war strongest, so too were the labor unions at their post war strongest.

It sounds to me like you just personally resent anyone who won't settle for bottom rung pickings, and it sounds to me like you don't care that you invested thousands of thousands of dollars in Japan, Korea, or Germany.

It sounds to me like you don't even want to learn economics 101.

It sounds to me like you want a reward and praise for all those things...

Here is a star for your forehead...I hope somehow it makes you happier than ensuring yourself a nice paycheck, decent standard of living and stable economy would.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Frankly I am amazed since this is a conspiracy site no one has thrown this out there yet...could Flint and Detroit's downfall be Woody's revenge against Bo?

Lets get this thread really heated up! This is all part of the Buckeye's plan to destroy the Wolverine's once and for all!

ArgHHHH

Those buckeyes!! I think your right. They want to roast a wolverine so bad they have there forks ready! M go Blue!

Michigan we should vote uncle Ted in for Gov.

Wango Tango....Baby!

I have it on good authority that Ted was actually born in and went to highschool in Ohio before being recruited by Michigan!

I mean come on, Motown is Motown but Cleveland...it rocks!

Is that Strangle Hold they are playing?...

Don't worry I am from Pittsburgh, we have a thing about Ohio too!

I grew up in rural Michigan, and after a while away, spent about a year just outside of Detroit a couple three years ago.

I think I even made a post or two here about that experience.

Detroit was rusting then badly, and you could see and feel the emotions on the faces of everyday people.

Kinda like the look of someone who just found out their cruise ship just 'bumped' an iceburg.

I left there after befreinding many people, and to this day,...I worry bout them.

The news lately?... to me?... not unexpected at all.

edit: this is a reply to protoplasmic traveler - just didn't push the right button.

Nah, go ahead and rant - you are not right.
Unions have had their place, but unions also got too big.
Being big and powerful, they got corrupted - its human nature. You need to take those rose coloured glasses off and admit what is real.

I worked in union positions a good portion of my life (just not in a large factory) and know what they are like - I never made the wages the automotive workers did, but I led a good life regardless.

I've driven both domestic and foreign made cars, and my experience only confirms the general wisdom - the foreign cars were both better built and less money; thus a better value for my hard earned money. Thats not just hearsay, it is my personal experience.

My eleven year old Toyota is still running great many years after it was bought and paid for, while most North American cars by that time are in the junkyard.

I will buy anyone's product if it is made well, and priced fairly, bottom line. If my neighbour's product fits that description then it gets priority over someone else's. If it doesn't then I will buy from the foreigner.

To make sweeping generalizations like you do, if the whole world operated that way then we'd all be in great shape.

[edit on 4/2/2009 by wayno]

reply to post by wayno

My eleven year old Toyota is still running great many years after it was bought and paid for, while most North American cars by that time are in the junkyard.

Unfortunately you have hit the nail on the head. My own Toyota is 14-years old, has around 200,000, leaks a little oil, and still runs great. Show me a big-three car that'll meet those specs ... and the 'silence is deafening ! End of story ...

ProtoplasmicTraveler, an well as others who fail to see this fact may be infatuated with their own brilliance, but I don't think anybody else here is ...

Originally posted by visible_villain
Show me a big-three car that'll meet those specs ... and the 'silence is deafening ! End of story ...

1991 Chevy truck with over 500K and doesn't leak a drop. And it will run your Toyota over. The silence will be been deafening when that Silverado squishes your Toyota!

God even loves the Chevy 350 Shortblock!!

Edit to add: The 2008 Chevy Malibu is as good as the Camry but looks better.

Ford F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the world and runs and runs and runs.

Corvette nothing but sweet sounding V-8 and a Ferrari f-50 cant shake it off its rear and it does this at 50K. Best sports car bargain in the world.

Please try and be more AMERICAN in these rough times?



[edit on 2-4-2009 by LoneGunMan]

reply to post by visible_villain


88 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 320K miles, no oil leaks or anything...those straight six engines are built like tanks and they'll run for ever.

reply to post by numo16


Those are some tireless engines for sure!!

Time to testify about your high mile all American vehicle!

Buy American! Save your economy!

Originally posted by wayno
edit: this is a reply to protoplasmic traveler - just didn't push the right button.

Nah, go ahead and rant - you are not right.
Unions have had their place, but unions also got too big.
Being big and powerful, they got corrupted - its human nature. You need to take those rose coloured glasses off and admit what is real.

I worked in union positions a good portion of my life (just not in a large factory) and know what they are like - I never made the wages the automotive workers did, but I led a good life regardless.

I've driven both domestic and foreign made cars, and my experience only confirms the general wisdom - the foreign cars were both better built and less money; thus a better value for my hard earned money. Thats not just hearsay, it is my personal experience.

My eleven year old Toyota is still running great many years after it was bought and paid for, while most North American cars by that time are in the junkyard.

I will buy anyone's product if it is made well, and priced fairly, bottom line. If my neighbour's product fits that description then it gets priority over someone else's. If it doesn't then I will buy from the foreigner.

To make sweeping generalizations like you do, if the whole world operated that way then we'd all be in great shape.

[edit on 4/2/2009 by wayno]

You know I appologize if my reply seemed unkind or off base. Yes the Unions were corrupt from day one. Organized Crime conspired heavily to infiltrate the unions to offest the loss or revenues with the repeal of prohibition.

For a lot of peaceful family guys who just wanted a decent job and a decent paycheck it just turned out to be an opportunity they couldn't pass up. Let the wise guys crack a few heads, cut a few backroom deals, and have a little privelage here and there. Most people who get suckered into bed with organized criminal elements do so for similiarly foolish reasons, never realizing until it's too late, once you lie with dogs you are bound to get fleas.

As far as the foreign cars, Pontiac Grand Ams will show as many 11 year old models currently registered as Toyota Carollas. They are both simple basic cars, not hard to keep running if you keep the fluids and filters maintained.

I can tell you though that for years in the 90's part of my job every year was driving comparative GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota and Honda models all similiarly equipped around NASCAR and INDY Race Tracks and through Obsticle Courses set up by the Skip Barber Racing School. Hey until they changed the corporate tax laws they gave away 100.00 bills like candy at those things for answering tough impromptu questions like, how many wheels does this car have....4! Great answer!

I have to tell you for over all rigidity, noise, vibration, harshness, cornering and stability, wheel tracking and breaking distance, I would take a 18-26K priced GM vehicle over any other competitor in it's price class, and just the raw specs on paper actually draw that conclusion when you take the time to study hrtz ratings, drive trains, engines, breaking systems and turning radius etc.

Consumer Reports has had a well known biased against GM for years, J.D. Powers would be a consumers best shot at one stop realistic ratings.

Regardless, even if you think me a fool. If you are in the Restaurant Business, and you are the guy who runs a little mom and pop store, with nothing but documented workers, even if you charge a few dollars more than Wendy's and are 5 miles out of my way, that's where I am eating.

If you are the guy who makes your own line of shirts and sells them just in a few shops, because you use American Textiles, and American Labor to make them, and they are 60% more and come in fewer styles than the Chinese equivalant at Wal-Mart and you are 20 miles out of my way...that's where I am going to buy my shirts at.

What makes a nation's economy healthy is called a trade surplus. The government can try to regulate it, but ultimately that closes markets to your manufactured and exportable goods.

It's up to a nation's consumers to have the intelligence to limit their own individual foreign purchases, understanding the money you are exporting out of our economy might never come back this way.

I have worked in some great industries, I am one of the few people who can say I have made more money off of Bankers, Oil Companies, Car Companies, Lawyers, Utility Companies, Realtors etc., etc., than they are ever going to make off of me...

Who makes money off of me...the little guy, the local guy, the American guy, I spend it in my community with an eye towards keeping it circulating in my community...that is what makes an economy strong.

Sadly I am an Army of 1, I might be a ranter, but I honestly believe the more money people have in the community around me, the more money I am going to be able to make and reinvest in the community around me...

Explain to me how your theory works...besides for China and Japan.

Pretty please.

No disrespect meant but it's time people wake up to why all these bailouts are really happening. Our whole nation has been getting by on foreign borrowed money, to by foreign made products...and frankly I do believe your attitude is part of that problem...and offers no solution...

Being a citizen of a nation is also a responsibility that requires some sacrifice and acknowledgement.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


WOW! That was a great post!

I wish everyone would pull there heads out of the buts and really read the truth of what you are saying.

Any REAL American that cares for friends and family need to read the above post and think.

Before its too late think.