Libertarian Values

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posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Frankly, I did not like your opening posts (too combative and superior) and very much doubted I would score on the libertarian side. However, it appears I am more libertarian than you, by a couple of rows.






posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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im a newbie that cant figure out how to import my graph to the forum. i was placed at the far left 3 blocks before the side and 2 blocks above the center line. im not very political so could someone tell me what exactly that means?



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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I believe the future of politics-government is in what would now be called ultra-libertarianism or near-anarchy. (Those who believe total and utter absence of government is possible probably aren't realistic). Of course this is in tandem (or eventually) with the end of secrecy-based government period and the revelation of much new (to us) science/knowledge. Here's hoping we can get it over with, like, yesterday.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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If in Windows... you right click the graphic, copy the address (url), paste it here in [ ats ] [/ ats ] tags, without the spaces. You can click quote on my post to see an example.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
STATES RIGHTS/LAWS: supercede Federal, with what exceptions where? i.e. civil rights. Is that plausible?


Civil Rights is for the Federal Government. The Constitution covers almost everything that needs to be covered. The rest should be up to the states. (in my opinion and that of many Libertarians).



What if Texas outlaws abortion? Is that fine with you too? Where does that leave an impoverished pregnant teenage girl in Midland? How about sodomy laws, which leads to persecution of homosexuals?


The majority actually thinks that it is our business to meddle in other peoples affairs. Libertarianism is all about "their choices are none of my business". That includes someone wanting to be a homosexual: None of my business. That includes somone wanting anti-gay-laws: None of my business. But in a Libertarian society, the homosexual will be able to move to a state which has better laws for him and the anti-gay will move into a state which has the society that best suits him.

Those questions presuppose that we have to meddle in other peoples business in order for society to work. This is, imo, a psychological fallacy. Societies in which everyone simply focuses on cleaning up his own act rather than that of others are the most harmonious. Switzerland is a typical example of a few of these Libertarian Values in Action.

Again this can be broken down into the three Positions:

Posistion 1: Lets get rid of gays

Position 2: Lets get rid of homophobes

Position 3: Let them do what they do while I do what I do.



There is a complexity here that I think is not addresses by the diaspora of Libertarians, hence you are only 2%.


I guess we are 2% because people cant possibly imagine anything taking care of itself. And yet...if you observe nature itself, you see its possible.

You are right about Libertarians not yet being ready to be a major player because the direction is not yet clearly defined. But most of us are not asking for 50%, only for 10% of the votes. And most of us are also asking for various other parties to be part of the game. In short: Down with the 2-party-system.



DRAMATIC REDUCTION OF SIZE OF FEDERAL GOV. - Yahoo! But how does any of this come about under Libertarianism when there is no unity outside of personal ideology of independence and anti-authoritian attitudes which is so subjective?


www.lp.org unites Libertarians of various colors as best is currently possible.

Of course anti-authoritarians are often reluctant to play politics, so more education is needed.



Perhaps it is possible that the current 'secession' of the 20-odd states that is happening right now could be a catalyst for a viable third-party movement.


Yes it could.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Economic Left/Right: -0.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82



Seems like I'm straight down the Libertarian line, very slightly leaning towards the left?

That's probably because of my views on homosexuality.


-Will



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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Libertarianism can be summed up in one little phrase:

Self Determination!

You alone are responsible for your self.

Politically speaking, Libertarians are on the far-right of the political spectrum. Right meaning small government, Anarchist are the absolute right. This gets confusing because most Libertarians and Anarchist are often very Liberal in their social beliefs, for instance, no restrictions on drugs, being pro choice, etc. But what it all comes down to is "How big does the Government need to be to give you that choice?" The answer to a Libertarian -- almost no centralized Government! Most social issues that divide Liberals and Conservatives NEVER get debated in Washington -- so why hate each other over it!? In the end, take away the religious right and liberal nut jobs and you get a unified Socialist party with absolutely NO competition.

Libertarians don't have a grouped social conscience as to what is right, wrong, should be allowed. You can have very Social Liberal Libertarians and Religious Conservative Libertarians. The entire point is to remove the Federal Government, and return to absolute State Rights. From there, in the States, social issues can be debated.

Federally though all Libertarians regardless of beliefs have one common demand REMOVE THE GOVERNMENT FROM MY LIFE!

We are the True guardians of the Constitution!



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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I answered in the most appauling, nwo/globalist way possible, in ways I never would. Here is what it came out to:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 8.97

I beat hitler and thatcher!

I've taken it before, it's a good accurate read. I'm (a bit) leftist and libertarian.


[edit on 1-4-2009 by CapsFan8]



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by paperplanes
I'm surprised by how far to the right my own little dot is. I expected it to have moved toward the liberal side since I last tested a year or so ago.


The four-box visual is a bit misleading because Libertarians of left and right only have very slight differences.




I cannot agree with the strict non-interventionism of many (perhaps most) Libertarians. I believe that humanitarian intervention in foreign affairs is rarely necessary, but it cannot be taken off the table


Even though we're strictly non-intervention I dont think anybody rules it out entirely.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by Skyfloating]



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Boom Slice
I really think Ron Paul will have a legit chance in 2012, if things keep up this way. Let's just hope people listen this time!


If the Internet-Populace-ONLY had voted, RP would now be President. So yes, there is a good chance for that 2012 or 2016.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by YourForever
Frankly, I did not like your opening posts (too combative and superior) and very much doubted I would score on the libertarian side. However, it appears I am more libertarian than you, by a couple of rows.



A little bit of exaggeration there in the OP so that Libertarianism gets discussed


Congratulations on your results.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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And I suppose that the view that the left and right got us stuck right where we are today and are both the same party that gets it's pay checks signed by the same person would make me....Reformist which shares some of the basic's as libertarians views except we want to tear down the government and rebuild from the ground up and induce TERM LIMITS of 2 years on ALL government offices and once your term is up your OUT forever! Period! Never to become career politicians again. And of course flat tax or consumtion tax it's only fair. Also any government held office is subject to immediant FIRING if he or she fails the year quartly report cards no more free rides for elected officials if they don't produce they are FIRED! Police are to be under a very,very watchful eye of civilian over-site. No more free ride for corrupt officers protected by police unions. All government fleet vehicals including police are to be down sized to small eco class cars and a couple of larger vans to pick up prisoners deemed needed for jailing via. Europe's police model. No more jailing of non-violate criminals they will be working there time on the week-ends re-pairing roads and re-painting etc. Thats just some of the way the reformist roll



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Im libertarian left

Economic Left/Right: -1.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.10

I lean towards left probably because of my inability to trust the multinational corps including the bankers and what not. Interesting test there Sky....



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Manwin


Economic Left/Right: 1.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.28


Thats cool. I only consider way top left and way top right to be mentally ill



I'm surprised I even scored that far to the right. I'm a shade further to the right than the last time I took this test a few months ago. I scored smack dab in the center.

I have always leaned right, but at the same time I'm a pretty big fan of Ron Paul (his policies).



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Eh, well I took the little test, turns out im slightly Authoritarian Left. Then Firefox froze before I could copy the picture lol.

The test was stupid though. I will tell you why:

none of it matters. Half the stuff in there would describe the difference between Democrats and Republicans, but shouldn't matter to a true Libertarian. I am more Authoritarian, I could have told you that before taking a test. I am also more Socially Conservative, not religiously so, but I prefer moral guidelines for society based on reason. However.. I am a Libertarian, and would never join in a party that would push my ideas onto anyone else.

I could have been the highest Authoritarian, Communist point on the little compass and it wouldn't matter, because they are my beliefs, not something I would push on people 3,000 miles away. And that, is the entire point of Libertarianism.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
The entire point is to remove the Federal Government, and return to absolute State Rights. From there, in the States, social issues can be debated.


That's the bit that I find strange, even confusing.

What is the difference between a State government and a Federal Government?

All you are looking for is essentially substituting one authority structure for another.

Then what?

Will being Libertarian mean that you want to do away with the State gov. and narrow it down to District, County, City, neighborhood, to when each person is his own ruler?

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is anarchism.


Federally though all Libertarians regardless of beliefs have one common demand REMOVE THE GOVERNMENT FROM MY LIFE!


Exactly.


We are the True guardians of the Constitution!


Not really as I understand it. Under the Libertarian premise, again as you explain it, there is little or no need for a constitution to begin with.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by digginforthetruth
im a newbie that cant figure out how to import my graph to the forum. i was placed at the far left 3 blocks before the side and 2 blocks above the center line. im not very political so could someone tell me what exactly that means?


It means you're a commie


_______________________________

Here's how to go about posting pictures:

Click Upper Left "Video & Media".

Log-In to your Media Account using your ATS-Name.

Click "My Account" and "Upload Photo" (the photo would have to be on your computer first)

Upload and then Click on Photo. Option 3 is "embed in Thread". Copy/Paste into the Thread.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


lol, we are nearly at the exact same point on the compass. I too didn't trust the Corporations.



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 




What is the difference between a State government and a Federal Government?


Everything!!! Think of the States as 50 different countries. Why the hell should Main be paying to social programs in California? Or why should higher income states like Washington be sending it's people taxation on Labor to fight a war that does not interest those people? Or why should other states in the Union pay for civil projects via pork placed in bills in DC?

The Union was created to form something quite like the EU .. it was turned into a centralized behemoth by the vial Abe Lincoln and the Federalist. From that point on state's rights where destroyed. A perfect example is in Ohio the drinking age was 19 until Reagan took ALL Highway funding from the state to force them to move to 21 .. even though repeated votes said NO.

Each State is unique, and has it's own Constitution. Localized Government will ALWAYS represent the people better then distant Centralized Governments.

edit to add: Libertarians on the state level would generally push for as little intrusion into personal lives as possible, but would differ greatly on social issues. But that's where it should be decided, and in any fair democracy, Majority rules.

[edit on 4/1/2009 by Rockpuck]



posted on Apr, 1 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mybigunit
 


lol, we are nearly at the exact same point on the compass. I too didn't trust the Corporations.


Cmon Rock you dont have to BS me man I know your just some dirty Authoritarian





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