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Netanyahu to Obama: Stop Iran—Or I Will

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posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by finemanm

However, I feel he got a lot of votes for the same reason Bush did in 2004. Because decent, hardworking people are afraid of muslims who are threatening and promising to kill them.


What about the decent, hardworking Palestinians who already are being killed by the IDF simply for living on the land they've lived on for thousands of years? But I guess you don't care about them because they're "muslims".

The fact is, you've got one state (Palestine) that is being embargoed, blockaded and at times bombed into oblivion by another state (Israel), and their only defense is to launch glorified bottle rockets while they petition for aid (which is refused) and watch their children's schools get blown to smithereens.

There's no campaign to slander Israel or the Jewish people. I don't care how many self-hating Jews you know, I would never slander my own blood. There is only a cry for help, and amazement at the lack of response to blatant disregard for international law.

Its not about Jews or Muslims, its about war crimes. If you can't see that, then you have no business calling anyone a bigot or a racist.




posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


mybigunit, your religious beliefs are your own. That you are unfamiliar with the unfulfilled prophecies I refer to would explain your offhand dismissal.

That your are unfamiliar with the prophecies that have occurred throughout history just as foretold, would likewise explain your offhand dismissal.

I think what got my attention was when I saw several sources of prophecy throughout the ages from different cultures pointing to the same events, but doing so from many different perspectives.

I also think that one who is reasonably studied can readily determine many of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation, for example, which have already been fulfilled, and fulfilled in order.

A reasonable educated man can see the fall of the Roman Empire in the Four Horsemen, the Roman Empire (world) in three parts, and can see the prophecy foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem with some of that very generation.

You can see the rise and conquering of Islam being limited to 150 years in Revelation 9:1-11, and then you can see the destruction of the third and final part of the Roman Empire by the four kingdoms of the four grandsons of Togrul, also known as the Turkomans, and you can even count the precise 396 years as prophesied.

I discount your assumption that these were self-fulfilling, as I don't believe that the Muslims nor the Turkomans read those prophesies and limited themselves to those years as prophesied.

For over 2,000 years, the very idea that there would ever be another Israel was ludicrous. The Jews were scattered all over creation. Yet it was promised, an event opened the door for that event, and it had been promised that they would be gathered from around the world - from the nations.

SOB! It happened!

Once gathered, they'll not be defeated, and they won't be leaving. And all the nations (those specifically named, but in general, are most of the nations of the old Persian Empire) will gather and come against them.

And according to prophecy, they will be destroyed, and during this same period, Damascus will be wiped off the earth.

According to prophecy, the numbers and might of those arrayed against Israel will be so great that it will be impossible for Israel to win.

And that's exactly what is promised - that this mighty eradication of Israel's enemies will prove that only their God could have done it.

Now, you believe what you want.

I will too.

The difference? I see the other fulfillments to the letter. And as scary as it is, I see this one going down just as prophesied, as they've been batting 1.000.

And no, I'm not a Bible scholar, a Bible thumper, and certainly not a sky-pilot.

But neither do I blindly deny what is right there for the taking.



[edit on 3-4-2009 by dooper]



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by dooper


And according to prophecy, they will be destroyed, and during this same period, Damascus will be wiped off the earth.

According to prophecy, the numbers and might of those arrayed against Israel will be so great that it will be impossible for Israel to win.

And that's exactly what is promised - that this mighty eradication of Israel's enemies will prove that only their God could have done it.

Now, you believe what you want.

I will too.

The difference? I see the other fulfillments to the letter. And as scary as it is, I see this one going down just as prophesied, as they've been batting 1.000.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by dooper]


Geez dude, you could've saved yourself and all of us a bunch of words and just said outright that you were a nutter...



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


But - I'm not a self-hating nutter - as others I see.

Nordic, Irish, and Cherokee. And I love it all!



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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I'm a bit new to this debate, so sorry if this is a stupid question. What exactly are self hating jews? I mean, I guess they are jews who hate themselves but really?


Is a self hating jew someone who hates themselves because they don't like how they look, or something personal about themselves. Or are they jews who hate the current status quo of Isreal? Serious question.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyR

Is a self hating jew someone who hates themselves because they don't like how they look, or something personal about themselves. Or are they jews who hate the current status quo of Isreal? Serious question.


Well, I've always understood self-hating Jews to be Jews that are ashamed of their heritage, but apparently any Jew who speaks out against the actions of Israel is a self-hating Jew in the eyes of many on these forums.

I've been called an anti-semite more times than I can count. It's gotta be something like when black people are called "uncle toms" for speaking out against radical black nationalists, or "acting too white". Its downright insulting.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyR
 


I've found self-haters to be like cultural orphans. They may have roots in two cultures, and haven't bought in to either one.

One friend was half Indian, half white. He didn't know what to consider himself, so he hated everything Indian, and tried to distance himself from that part of himself at every opportunity.

If he'd been all Indian, or all white, he'd have been fine. He just never could accept what he was. And so the bitterness.

When he was a kid and everyone played cowboys and Indians, I can assure you he wasn't going to be an Indian.

I think he hated that part of himself because he also felt that he was betraying that part of himself. Therefore, a lot of anger and it was always right under the surface. And it was all anger he was directing at himself.

But.

I'll leave those answers to the experts. Trained medical practitioners.

Folks with Ph.D's.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 02:23 AM
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Blackmail.
Pure and simple.

America does not want to hit Iran, they never did.
They wanted Iraq, and the oil pipeline in Afghanistan.

The neo'cons and israeli influence always were the ones pushing the Iranian issue.
I believe Obama and todays admin dont want a piece of it still, but what are the options?

Israel, if they chose to strike, know full well it will suck the entire region in.

America will have NO CHOICE, but to engage multiple countries.

Israel know, that America knows this. Which is why they are saying, quiet clearly

'' if you dont do it, I will. And we know you'll end up having to do it twice as hard later anyway ''



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by dooper


I'll leave those answers to the experts. Trained medical practitioners.

Folks with Ph.D's.


Actually If I was a medical practitioner I'd be an MD.

And I don't have my PhD... yet.

I can't imagine what would drive somebody to hate themselves just because they're a mix of two different cultures. Your friend is a rare example of someone struggling with their identity to an extreme degree.

These days we're all mixed. My grandfather was a Russian Jew who fled with my Polish grandmother to America to escape the holocaust. I have nothing but respect for them and the struggles they faced, coming to America in abject poverty, desperately trying to escape certain death and the desolation of Nazi Europe. My other side is English/Scottish and has been here for generation after generation. Again, nothing but respect for my established, British relations as well. I'm sure they came to America for the same reasons, to escape religious or financial persecution, in search of the great American dream.

I wasn't raised Jewish, but that doesn't make me any less of a Jew. I may not be a temple-worshiper, I may not have had a barmitzvah and I don't light Hanukkah candles. But I'm still Jewish, and proud of it, because that is my heritage. And I despise Israel for diminishing my people's name, just as I'm sure Germans despise Hitler, and Russians despise Stalin, and Americans despise Bush. The same way I'm sure the smarter, more open-minded Israelis despise Netanyahu.

I never knew I'd allow myself to drift so far off topic.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by mybigunit
 


mybigunit, your religious beliefs are your own. That you are unfamiliar with the unfulfilled prophecies I refer to would explain your offhand dismissal...

...For over 2,000 years, the very idea that there would ever be another Israel was ludicrous. The Jews were scattered all over creation. Yet it was promised, an event opened the door for that event, and it had been promised that they would be gathered from around the world - from the nations.

SOB! It happened!

Once gathered, they'll not be defeated, and they won't be leaving. And all the nations (those specifically named, but in general, are most of the nations of the old Persian Empire) will gather and come against them.

And according to prophecy, they will be destroyed, and during this same period, Damascus will be wiped off the earth.


Just to clarify what it is your talking about here: are you saying that the events surrounding the creation of Israel and the impacts this has had in the region are in fact DIVINELY inspired?

If this is the case are you then saying that because of the DIVINITY of Israel, divinity marked by the countless prophesies that foretold of the coming of the state of Israel, vindicates the state of Israel from any critique because the wiping of Damascus off the map, and the obliteration of any who stand in Israel's way is foretold?



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by Animal

Just to clarify what it is your talking about here: are you saying that the events surrounding the creation of Israel and the impacts this has had in the region are in fact DIVINELY inspired?

If this is the case are you then saying that because of the DIVINITY of Israel, divinity marked by the countless prophesies that foretold of the coming of the state of Israel, vindicates the state of Israel from any critique because the wiping of Damascus off the map, and the obliteration of any who stand in Israel's way is foretold?




That is indeed what he is saying. This is all set in stone per the bible so go ahead and keep on the path we are going on because its going to happen anyways. This is why I cannot elect someone who is a religious nut. They dont feel we have control of our own destinies they feel that it is all in stone so go ahead and lets end civilization just like the past civilizations on earth have already done.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Well, first in respect the person I asked the question to I will not ASSUME you are correct, although it is my impression as well.

Also, I completely agree with your sentiments on the pragmatism and sanity of those who are so fully devoted to the works of a really old book that they do not question the concept of free will.

The idea that god(s)(ess)(essess) foretold of the coming of the state of Israel and that no one could do anything about it, and any one who opposed it would die so just sit back and watch the fireworks needs help.

I am not a christian but I am pretty sure that in the Cristian religion there is the prevalence of a concept of FREE WILL which is pretty central to the religions teachings, no?

So the idea that we should all jump on the Israel bandwagon and not protest when we see inhuman acts committed int he name of this state makes me feel a little sick. What kind of religion teaches us to hate and to accept hate and therefore lead us to kill? Funny I always hear the Christians talking about how Islam is the faith of the killer, am I confused?

Well it appears that Religion is NOT the opiate of the masses it was once touted as, in fact I think it is a bit more like dirty crystal-meth, its making you into all crazies.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


I was referring the the psychology Ph.D's, not the M.D.'s, and my apologies for not making that more clear.

By God, you should be proud of your Jewish heritage. I'm very proud of my Cherokee heritage, just as my Irish heritage, in spite of a few ancestors with rather questionable character.

But your folks have a cultural identity that has maintained its identity throughout the ages, in spite of a widespread scattering.

We've disagreed, and I'll do so again on this one point. Israel has done nothing to diminish your people's name. Those who criticize and detest Israel would have done so even had Israel done everything perfect.

S*** on them.

All life is a race, a hide, or a fight.

One is predator or prey.

You make up your mind, and do the best you can, and if others don't like your choice, screw them.

That's what Israel has done. They showed that they too, have teeth. No more prey. No more massacre of their people.

Maybe you could cut them a little slack?



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


Animal, and mybigunit.

Gentlemen! I merely stated that if one studies prophecies pertaining to this part of the world, you can see where many were fulfilled, precisely as prophesied. Others are yet to be fulfilled.

The destruction of Damascus? All I'm saying is that it's prophesied in Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49, and Zechariah 9. Didn't say who would destroy it, or how. It would just cease to be a city.

Apparently, about the same time, some of the "strong cities" of Israel will also suffer greatly. Does that make you feel better?



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
Those who criticize and detest Israel would have done so even had Israel done everything perfect.


The problem is that Israel has been far from perfect. It would be one thing if people criticized Israel when they did nothing wrong. It is another thing entirely when Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

B'Tselem is an Israeli Human Rights group, one of many, and they have been speaking out about their own governments actions. They are not self hating Jews in any way. B'Tselem has Knesset members in it's group of founders and is in no way a fringe group. They simply believe in moral and ethical behavior as taught in the sacred Jewish texts. B'Tselem Human Rights Watch There are many Jews in Israel and elsewhere in the world who are against the aggressive and immoral stance the State of Israel has taken. This does not mean that they hate themselves or are opposed to the idea of a free Israel. It simply means that they are concerned individuals with a strong belief in Human Dignity.

When Lieberman states that Israel could bomb the Aswan Damn and murder millions of Egyptians, it is a horrendous statement that serves no peaceful purpose. When I mentioned this, you simply passed over it because you stated it was from an "outside source," and thus false perhaps. Perhaps you might wish to fact check the truth of that statement from an Israeli source. Israeli National News

Sadly you choose to ignore reality in your belief of a magic destiny. Israel is no moral beacon. I will "cut them some slack" when they begin to act civilized. For the record, I support Israels right to exist, I simply do not support any Government that believes they are above the Law.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Terapin
Sadly you choose to ignore reality in your belief of a magic destiny. Israel is no moral beacon. I will "cut them some slack" when they begin to act civilized. For the record, I support Israels right to exist, I simply do not support any Government that believes they are above the Law.


Terapin, please post in the regional politics forum here

That kind of critical thinking is exactly what that forum, and the world in general needs.

The time is past for partisan politics - it's now time for us, as a species to find real answers to human problems, instead of being stuck in a time warp.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by bobbylove321
I think if America just turned around and told Israel "Good luck you are on your own." This would cause Israel to rethink what they want to do.

The war will not happen without the backing of the U.S. This is because Israel is too weak to take on many nations by itself.

Let's not forget Israel is a small piece of land, so it wouldn't take many missiles and bombs to annihilate the entire area.




You apparently have no idea what decisions a people can do whenever they feel their existence is threatened......... and that "tiny piece of land" theory holds no weight. Learn some military strategy first.

Let the grownups play Bobby, go back to opening your portals.



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