I just watched a very interesting programme on BBc2 on the subject of Darwin and God. The presenter was a christian and he travelled around the world talking to people about this subject.

A very respected christian said that the book of genesis is not to be taken literally, and the other conclusion was that Darwin wasnt an aetheist. The programme discussed orthodox christianty, darwinism, ultra darwinism, science. interventionism, evolutionism and it was very, very interesting as its ignited my mind onto theis subject.

Im a very open minded person on this subject, I'm very scienece orientated and I'm also very curious as to God, religion and all subjects related.

I think I think this way because I've learnt to realise that as I get older I become wiser, learn more, and many ideas and perceptions I had in the past have turned out wrong, and I have also learnt that people can become very defensive when what they belive in is put into question, and form all that I have adopted an open mind that is always open to new ideas and beliefs, but I will say I'm not easily swayed, and I'm not the type of person that will side with the strongest or the loudest.

I wanted to put my belief forward and I dont want to offend anyone, and I dont want to be shouted as, as like I said I am open to other peoples beliefs and thoughts.

I believe that God craeted OUR universe for us and everything that lives in it. It may not be the same as other Universes but this is the one we have and it all fits together very nicely, once we do the math. Then with that creation came evrything on outr planet, and it seems that everything on this planet has a balance to it, as although there is big and small and we all have a part to play, there isnt anything truly alien that would stand out when looked at, or run from. We then evolved, the earth evolved, everything on it, including human beings, and all is well. Then through science via intervention we become who we are today from the last evolutionary step in the human being path.

Its what I'm thinking now, and would like a really good response to it.

So basically, everything was CREATED by GOD, then everything EVOLVED, then SCIENCE made us who we are today and then whats next. well we will have to see.

I believe that all beliefs should not be believed.

Believe it or not, belief of any nature is by nature self-limiting.

It is not necessary to believe any belief.

I believe the above belief to be absolute.

No offense, but this sickens me.

The way at first christians or all religions, went with the genie in a bottle scenario and everything was poofed. Then they said we were the center of the universe, copernicus said well i believe were not. Stoned to death.

After a few generations they accepted that god uniquely and creatively made us not the center.

Darwinism came along and publicized the idea of evolution, christianity hated it and fought it, now god creatively and uniquely made evolution.

Then there are those extreme experiences were some amazing thing happens coincedently to some person, and exclaims look what God did for me, when infact their are 6.7 billion people on the earth, lots of coincedences are inevitable!!!

There are good people and bad people, good things happen bad things happen, little thing called life, not a consistent divine intervention.



Even now people are saying that all religions are CORRECT, the ideas were just askewed along the way to present time!


I hope we meet an alien race one day, and ask them when Jesus came and met with them, see what they say, and correct christianity to fit everything.


Religion lately has turned into a One-Size Fits All Hat!

Yes your right and wrong in a way. To not believe in something is right, as you are then open to new ideas, but your not believing is your belief.

Hi Republican08,

I get you mate, that is why I put the ... after scince because whats next?

Its such an incredible subject that you just cannot put a single idea to it, and there are so many out there that only believe in science, others only in religion others only in evolution, but to me its all of this and probably more.

It's a debate, i'm assuming and I do not engage in harmful words or sand kicking.

I accept evolution, because out of all of them, you can prove it. It fits,
some say you can prove God, look at the good works of the world, look inside yourself and find a yearning for him, they exclaim he cannot be seen or touch but like the wind he can be felt. I simply call Bullsh!t.

If there is a god, why play all these little games religion speaks of, why did he create us, well he was looking for people to admire his works. What the hell does that even mean!

Its a sad revelation when you realize there is no after life, like there was no before life for an individual, but we are mere mortals not divine beings inside of a human body.

It is a hard thing to swallow that there is this and no more. No guiding hand no assurance of absolute eternal happiness. It'd be nice but fairytells (besides Grims) are always nice, and con artists are always the nicest people you have ever met.

Double post

Sorry

[edit on 31-3-2009 by Republican08]

I also believe in evolution, and your right religion has been created as we looked for something else to explain early deaths and possibly a better life after this. But what does amaze me is that everything on this earth sort of fits in with everything, so in a way although everything may have evolved to where we are today, it would have taken something to guide everything to evolve to how it is, where if it was not for weapons and technology we would all be able to live together neatly, what I mean is there isnt anything out there like from Lost that is truly unexplainable on incredibaly different.

I also just find it difficult to see how we developed from very primitive humans to being able to go to the moon, fly around space and do what we do, without some help or intervention through science.

I would be glad to go deeper into this with you, i feel very engaged, but I have to go to work training from 6-10. So ill look for this thread when im all done.

Ok mate, I'm in the UK, i think your in the US, so will be off to bed myself now, my mind is racing now though and so i'm in for a night of it i bet. I should knock off from this site earlier.

Thanks anyway, speak soon.

There just seems to be no answer to it that is just one answer, so what does that say about the subject. Is there an answer, and we are not being shown it, or is it that we all came from single cell organism billions of years ago, and we evolved to where we are today.

I just dont think so. I just cant see it.

Good night all.

To deny the creator the glory for all his creation,
is to accept a life that is lived in utter darkness.

[edit on 31/3/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

"This it my main topic, I hope I can help."

"I have studied the fossil record, migrations of people and most present and previous life forms back as far as I can."

"Just follow the fossil record to yourself. From the left. You and I and everyone alive are on the right."

But "Something" is missing. There must be a Link. Some "Missing Link"

I am not disputing your effort or message, but I must wonder what it is that is missing.

It does not help either, when discussing questions like this, when one side, namely Creationists, have no clue what the Bible / Books of Moses even suggest took place.

Simple Word Study of the second verse of Genesis 1 shows just how translation of Original Text to another language can be misleading.

Genesis 1:2 and the earth was void and without form.

"Was" is Italicized, since it was not in the Original text. So, removing this presumptive use of an alien word in the translation of the Original Text, we find another purer picture is present.

Genesis 1:2 and the earth became a waste and a desolation.

Now far be it for me to assert I have presented 100% proof of a miss-translation, But I can assure anyone and everyone, I have not "Placed" anything in this picture, that was not present for the Translators in the year 1611. Not only that, but I did not even need to makeup words, such as the Original Translators had.

You can ask, What's this got to do with anything and my answer is this.

Some period of time in the Distant Past, "God Created the Heavens and the Earth."

Sometime after this, a tramatic event occured, "and the earth became a waste and a desolation."

What period of time occurs between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2?

1 Day? 1000 Years? 1 Million Years? 4.6 Billion Years? (Some Day, we all will know)

And back to this Missing Link, why is it missing?

Could it be simply, the Re-Creationist Stories outline in the balance of Genesis 1.

To be clear, I am a Christian. I believe Dinosaurs walked the earth. I have no faith in Darwin. I believe the earth is some number of years old, and much more ancient than the 6000 to 14000 years certain sects ascribe to. I believe all Science ultimately PROVES God's word to be true.

So, I hope this may offer something to consider. Like I noted above, someday we will all know the answer to this, but until then, we must rely on discussions and debate.

Ciao

Shane

I believe that God did indeed create our universe and everything in it. The Bible is very clear about it, and I cannot bring myself to deny God's true and authoritative word.

I also believe in science. I am considering pursuing a double major in both computer science and Anthropology, because if I can get a handle on both then I will be a unique position in the scientific community... so I hope that works out for me.

The way that I deal with the issue of our origins is to understand that no one has the answers. The Big Bang Theory is only a theory, and so is evolution, and Abiogenesis creates life through intelligent interference. Even though we are a highly intelligent species we just do not have all the answers.

One day we could have a definitive answer, and I hope that day comes soon.

Originally posted by one_enlightened_mind
I believe that God did indeed create our universe and everything in it. The Bible is very clear about it, and I cannot bring myself to deny God's true and authoritative word.

How do you know that the Bible is God's "true and authoritative word"? Do you know how this collection of stories came to be? Are you aware that about 1600 years ago some people got together and decided what stories to put in the book and what not? Had they chosen some other stories you'd now "know" (remember: God's true word) that Jesus married a certain prostitute called Mary Magdalene and later in his life asked Judas to turn him in.

To me the old testament is a semihistorical story of some desert people tribe and the new testament is basically old mythology in new clothes. I very much doubt that Jesus existed even as a historical person.

The way that I deal with the issue of our origins is to understand that no one has the answers. The Big Bang Theory is only a theory, and so is evolution, and Abiogenesis creates life through intelligent interference. Even though we are a highly intelligent species we just do not have all the answers.

The Big Bang is not "just" a theory. A lot of evidence supports it. The same with evolution. All our observations support the theory. Then there's of course the fact of evolution. Creationists are aware that we've friggin' observed evolution taking place right in front of our own eyes. The solution? They came up with the artificial micro vs. macro crap.

Something happened 13,7 (or so) billion years ago. Everything that has happened since has happened within the rules of nature that were set at that very moment. Darwin was the first human who managed to make a good case for "rule of evolution". What we have today is not "just" a theory. There's a mountain of evidence supporting the theory. We've observed nothing that contradicts it.

Originally posted by John Matrix
To deny the creator the glory for all his creation,
is to accept a life that is lived in utter darkness.

Why would something that created the entire universe want/need the glorification of a pack of meatsacks on a backwater planet in a mediocre galaxy? Is his/her/its ego THAT large?