China has "Kill Weapon" to destroy US Carriers

my apologies..double post.

Orangetom

[edit on 17-4-2010 by orangetom1999]

reply to post by orangetom1999


and thats a valid excuse for using a nuke another country?,killing innocents is ok for you?,im confused as to why you made your post?plus the fact that things are alot different now to back then.just because a country kills its own thats no excuse for nuking them?i feel i have missed something or you have your wires crossed.most of the stuff you mentioned should have a thread of its own as thats a different type of situation entirely.

and please try not to be so judgemental you know nothing of my school history and i was merely pointing out that most people dont want war,or am i incorrect?

example:UK going to iraq,the people of the uk never wanted our forces over there and still doesnt but goverment still went and sent them.

thanks for reply though im finding this thread most interesting

[edit on 17-4-2010 by FeatheredSerpent]

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


would you ever join the military? Would you ever take a life (innocent to one point of view but guilty to your country's) based on a directive issued through a chain of command?

Nuclear weapons are a reality. Using them can be a reality. There is no right or wrong 'motive' to use them, its a point of view of survivability. Nobody would use nukes on another country if its killing its own people. We all know that. Nuclear weapons usage is used where conventional forces fail and the prospect of defeat (either partial or total and mostly for the sake of survivability) is 'unacceptable'.

'Unacceptable' varies from culture to culture, across forms of government, society etc. Nobody that has or can build nuclear weapons wants to use them.
Not to teach 'people a lesson or a way of life by force' or to 'crush axis the evil' or to 'establish a pan continental Islamic state' or to 'end the ways of the evil capitalistic west' or 'evil communist ideology'.
Everybody who has them or is in the process of building them, wants them as a deterrent. As such all forces directly entrusted with nukes embody this ethos. Nobody is trigger-happy. I accept that lunatic terrorists and extremists of all kinds are an exception and that is the real danger.

reply to post by Daedalus3


the answer is no to both of your first questions,i think you missed the point in your second paragraph(did you even read what i wrote?)i was arguing that just because leaderships have and still do kill there own people thats doesnt make it ok to use nukes,its like saying "they kill there own civilians so what does it matter if we kill some also" which is the message i got from the previous post unless i missed something?

a reply to your remark on the "unacceptable"-deep down dont we all know its wrong to take a life.... as in unacceptable?

last but not least this comment-I accept that lunatic terrorists and extremists of all kinds are an exception and that is the real danger.

this is exactly how most of the goverments are is it not?

thankyou for replying,all of this is just my opinion from what i see and feel,whilst i respect what your saying to me taking a life is seriously wrong on any level,but thats just my opinion,regards

[edit on 17-4-2010 by FeatheredSerpent]

reply to post by mel1962


If products made in China are any reflection of the quality of their weapons then we have nothing to worry about.

To date, I have never purchased anything made in China that wasn't pure crap.

Odds are, this missile will unexpectedly perform a perfect u turn and fly back to China with it's payload.

Originally posted by FeatheredSerpent
the answer is no to both of your first questions,i think you missed the point in your second paragraph(did you even read what i wrote?)i was arguing that just because leaderships have and still do kill there own people thats doesnt make it ok to use nukes,its like saying "they kill there own civilians so what does it matter if we kill some also" which is the message i got from the previous post unless i missed something?

Well I think you did miss something or you were looking for something in particular.
Countries killing their own people does not give the right to nuke them. I infact specified what nuclear weapons are all about and the context of their usage (something that I am sure Orangetom is aware of). Lets not get lost in interpretations of nuclear weapons and their use.

a reply to your remark on the "unacceptable"-deep down dont we all know its wrong to take a life.... as in unacceptable?

But now you are stepping back and commenting on a much more fundamental and basic question. I fail to see to relevance of this in the weaponry forum unless you advocate the total disarmament of all weaponry conventional, nuclear, including hand to hand combat.
Pacifism, the merits and demerits, though a worthy debate, has no bearing in this thread.

last but not least this comment-I accept that lunatic terrorists and extremists of all kinds are an exception and that is the real danger.
this is exactly how most of the goverments are is it not?

No. This is not how most governments react.
If extremism and lunacy is how most governments react we have condemned ourselves to self-inflicted extinction and I do not think that is the case. Ironically, absolutely pacifist society is also condemning itself to eventual extinction, albeit by more subtle and soporfic means.
I must strongly disagree with such a generic statement that you make, again out of context to the discussion at hand.

thankyou for replying,all of this is just my opinion from what i see and feel,whilst i respect what your saying to me taking a life is seriously wrong on any level,but thats just my opinion,regards

Fair enough, and I thank you too for your point of view. But taking a life on any level being seriously wrong is much more of a fundamental/philosophical arguement which needs a separate forum.
Interpretations are in multitudes, ranging from what classifies as taking a life (human, non-human, plant etc.) .. We are all results of an evolutionary process set forth by nature called natural selection and that plays at an inter-species as well as an intra species level. We are able to make such arguements here today, because our ancestors werent passive herbivores that let themselves get hunted.
Anyways.. like I said, irrelevant to the topic at hand.

'Unacceptable losses' and the definition of that is left to those who have earned the right to define it. Its just the way things work.

Originally posted by Harlequin
www.spacedaily.com...


^^ The USA has threatened to directly attack EU assests.

hahahhaha. FAIL.

US Could Shoot Down Euro GPS Satellites If Used By China In Wartime.


Its the damn title. There were no threats.

Originally posted by FeatheredSerpent

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by DOADOA

 

You forgot you have all the nukes.

true, and that keeps me warm and fuzzy at night. knowing we'll take the whole down with us bring a smile to my face.

sorry but i find that statement shocking,you have to remember that 90% of the "whole" didnt want war.Look at whats happening to the civilians in iraq now or do you not look at those people and think about what they go through on a daily basis?sorry if i come across as a bit brunt but i would be ashamed,you say it like yor proud of it and as far as china arming itself with "supercarrier slayers"my money bets its purely defensive,most countrys are watching the US with eyes-wide open.

this is my original post,i thought it was very much in context with what was said,if others feel otherwisei apologise but i still stand by what i said

regards

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


FeatheredSerpent,

I think you missed the point entirely. Dead is Dead...and you want to discuss nuclear or non nuclear weapons.

Hence I ask ..did you go to pubic school and major in emotions.
Public schooling has become to me ...a television/movie education majoring mostly in emotions and instant gratification values and thinking.

Most nations (90%) do not want war..nuclear or non nuclear. What are you thinking here??

However..rather than belabor the point I will cede to the superior post and position of Daedalus3.

Daedalus3,

Well said Sir...well said. I salute you!!

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


Before I forget and let it go to far....did you look up what the "Sampson Option is ...Fethered Serpent??? How about the other posters on here worried about Nuclear Armageddon??

Some of you really should find out what is this Nuclear Doctrine.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999



I can clearly see that you failed in manners,fair enough you win,that is what your after isnt it?and i left public school and school all together when i was 12 if that helps you categorize/pigeon hole me anymore than you already have,thankyou for your time

regards

just saw your post on the "sampson option" i might look into it but to be fair i know very little about this subject but was shocked by the statement doadoa made otherwise i wouldnt have even commented,thankyou for your time

regards

To those of you who keep on talking about nuclear weapons. Stop it. This thread is not about nuclear weapons, so don't bring it up.

This is the basic argument on ATS, when dealing with talking about military.
Person 1: well we sunk your carrier
Person 2: we have nukes, we will nuke your country if that happens.

It will not happen for many reasons
1) We are advocating less and less nukes
2) If we use nukes we admit that our carriers are bad and we lost
3) Why would we use nukes when someone wins a naval battle fair and square?
4) If we use nukes other countries will happily use it and say...."well USA used it so why can't we"

So this is to end all nuke card pulling fools on ATS, a nuclear war will never happen as much as your wet dreams say it will happen. Now stay on topic here.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


You'd better check out the Sampson Option and know that the Israelis were about to impliment it in the Yom Kippur war in 1973.

It is still on the table as a viable option for the Israelis. Most of the peoples in the world go about in their ignorance and thinking they are safe behind their televison sets and their governments are going to protect them. How about those Redskins?? The Lakers?? Did you see American Idol last night??? Did you Dance with the Stars??

Most peoples have never heard of this policy. Why would they?? Their leaders prefer them ignorant. They make better voters this way.

You also want to keep an eye on tensions between India and Pakistan. That one is always just on the back burner.

But hey...American Idol comes on in a few minutes...I gotta go now.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


If Israel uses nukes, well guess what that cork is out of the bottle of champagne and everyone is gonna have a nuke party. The whole world will see nuclear weapons as an everyday weapon. You think Israel has a chance to fight the entire world? I don't think so. Even the US will attack Israel in the future.

Lets have some realistic input please,if any country in the world dropped their load of nukes on this planet it would change our planet forever,for everyone,there is no tactical use for nuclear weapons.

What we are really talking about is unilateral disarmament,on a global scale,NOT INTERNATIONAL BUT GLOBAL ,forced disarmament.

Because the first words that wanted to come out of my mouth were international unilateral disarmament,I must point out the obvious,there must be in my lifetime and I am in my fortys a WORLD POWER THAT REPRESENTS ALL OF HUMANITY.

International DOESNT APPLY ANYMORE.Nations are obsolete and passe.


The only way to end the threat of EXTINCTION ---is to end THESE POPCORN NATIONS THAT EXIST,this means dismantling or bringing together ALL MAJOR RELIGONS.SAME WITH GOVERNMENTS.


You see in the end we are faced with the age old question,do we do it on our own or TOGETHER,the problem is THERE IS NO CHOICE ANYMORE OTHER THAN ---to do it together,the religous BS is over,we all know the planet is shrinking and we all exist in the same reality,the RELIGOUS DECEPTION IS OVER----finally.


You heard it here first,we all exist in the same reality,there ARE NOT A THOUSAND GODS ALL ALLOWING US TO EXIST IN SEPERATE REALITIES.

We know we have been decieved,there is no way to hide it,and the only way to go is forward.

One world democracy,one world military,humanitarian global constitution,no national boundries allowed to exist,co-operation on a global scale.



We all know the TRUTH IS THAT ORGANISED RELIGONS THAT LIE AND ENCOURAGE VIOLENCE AGAINST HUMANITY MUST BE THE FIRST TO GO BECAUSE THEY WILL FIGHT THE HARDEST TO REMAIN IN EXISTENCE.


We also know that people can and will get along ,IF THERE ARENT PRIESTS AND PREACHERS TELLING US TO KILL EACH OTHER IN THE NAME OF IMAGINARY GODS.

This isnt a rant against religon,simply a statement of fact that we all reach as soon AS WE STOP BLINDLY DEFENDING GODS THAT ONLY EXIST TO US AND OUR RELIGOUS COHORTS,THESE GODS ARE NOT AND WERE NEVER INTENDED TO BE CONSIDERED TO BE REAL.

The only 'kill weapon"that China has that could destroy the US is the truth,the RELIGOUS TRUTH,THE ECONOMIC TRUTH,THE GLOBAL TRUTH.

It wont take a nuclear attack to rule the world,IT WILL TAKE A LEADER WHO UNDERSTANDS THE FUTURE HUMANITY FACES---A FUTURE THAT MUST AT ALL COSTS INCLUDE A GLOBAL DEMOCRACY AND ABOLISHMENT OF ORGANISED RELIGON AS WE KNOW IT,A DISEMPOWERMENT OF ALL RELIGONS THAT HOLD ECONOMIC OR FISCAL OR POLITICAL POWER.

Religon must become a PASSTIME OR A HOBBY of anyone who decides to represent humanity in any leadership or representative capacity.

Suck it up religous fanatics,we dont want christians,jews,muslims,jehovas witnesses,satan worshippers,amish ,-----or ANY OF YOU PSYCOS THAT BELIEVE IN IMAGINARY GODS TO HAVE YOUR FINGERS ON ---REAL RED BUTTONS---you people just ARE NOT RELIABLE.

You heard the word HOBBY RIGHT---because YOU ARE NOT BORN WITH THE RIGHT TO SCREW WITH OTHER HUMANS EXISTANCE ON THIS PLANET BASED ON YOUR IMAGINARY GODS AND YOUR PERCIEVED NEED TO KILL AND CONFLICT IN ORDER TO PRESERVE AND WORSHIP THESE IMAGINARY ENTITIES.


If there is ever a war,it will be a war against ALL RELIGONS,and China is welcome to join the global coalition supporting humanity OVER RELIGOUS FANATICS.


Global coalition ,do you understand why what I just said is even significant.

BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE ENTITY IN HUMANITIES EXISTANCE BIG ENOUGH TO REQUIRE A GLOBAL COALITION TO DEFEAT IT ----AND THAT IS ORGANISED RELIGON,wake up people,we need china like you dont even know,we need all major countrys to be on board.


Just start using the word humanitarian because this is the future,this is what we will base our global constitution on,google the UN and tell me you see a better future for humanity.

You cant unless you lie and think of your own country first,if you think of the entire planet you will find that the ONLY CURRENT OPTION IS THE UN.

The UN is a kill weapon for all of this crap we have been tolerating in our world.






[edit on 18-4-2010 by one4all]

Good, maybe now America might pull its head in & p.o.q. back to its side of the Pacific.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL



The Sampson Option is a nuclear doctrine to where if Israel is finally over run...as they almost were in the Yom Kippur war of 1973.. they plan to use nuclear weapons on themselves and take everyone with them...as did Sampson with the Philistines. Before they acquired nuclear weapons they had a doctrine called the Masada Complex. Histsory records what happened at the mountain fortress of Masada. All Nuclear Weapons did was modify the policy somewhat.

In 1973 the Israelis were removing and readying their nuclear stocks to battle. It was the sudden rearmament by Richard Nixon which prevented them from going this route. I do not believe the Israelis are bluffing in this doctrine.

Understand now why our leaders prefer us to be ignorant voters...ignorance is indeed bliss..is it not??




one4all,

You have made one of the dumbest most ignorant posts I have seen in a long time here on ATS.

You want to put the fate of the word in the hands of a central government because of the scourge of Religion?? Your public school education is showing here.

First off let me tell you that the United Nations has spent billions of dollars studying how to convert the people of the world to a common religion.

For they are smart enough to know that the most powerful political economic force in the world always has been and always will be religion.
No other factor has a larger more influential effect on a nations economy outside of a peoples religion.

And with the United Nations in mind..I will tell you to look at the list of the religious doctrines/dogmas behind the Georgia Guidestones...which is the eventual United Nations goal.

Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
Guide reproduction wisely improving fitness and diversity.
Unite humanity with a living new language.
Rule passion, faith, tradition, and all things with tempered reason.
Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
Avoid petty laws and useless officials.Balance personal rights with social duties.
Prize truth, beauty, love, seeking harmony with the infinite.
Be not a cancer on the earth. Leave room for nature. Leave room for nature.
Balance personal rights with social duties

Notice particularly line one...to maintain the population of the earth at a manageable 500,000,000

Here is the wiki link

en.wikipedia.org...

Now ..we need nuclear weapons for what??
We plan to get rid of religion for what??? For this??
Only public education can dumb a people down this far and them not know it.

This is logical reasonable intelligent men doing what they do best one4all.

When you read the history of men...you see a very different picture from the Idyllic nonsense you post.

Logical reasonable men created the atheist nations..like Soviet Russia and Communist China. All this from Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels. They are responsible for the deaths of Millions upon Millions..upon millions. And this was way before the Hitler Channel (History Channel) And I have not until now included Hitler.
Remember ..these are godless nations one4all. What on this earth could you possibly be thinking here.
Do you think for one minute that none of us know any history?? That all of us went to public school and got a full dose of Star Trek, Star Wars et al.

Star Trek is such a joke...they cure war on earth so that they can go out in the galaxy and fight wars out there. What a joke..they just hide the joke under the "Prime Directive."

Television and Hollywood are prime examples of peace..are they not?
A public education is today a television/movie education....majoring in emotions.
Television and Hollywood are deceivers and liars hiding the truth and replacing it with "Human Feelings" while lying about the real history of this world.

In case you don't get it ...politics is in itself a religion ..and an occult religion. A religion which has behind it workings which are concealed, hidden, even esoteric..from the outsiders not initiated into the secrets. A code of behavior for the insiders and another for the outsiders.
This is what occult means...hidden, concealed, esoteric. Not known by those it intends to control Even the actual workings of the religion are not as advertised....except to the very inner core.

And you want to replace the worlds religions with this nonsense...under a central governing body. The nature of this world has always been that when a good and decent thing is started and works well..infiltrators secretly and privily begin to infiltrate and overturn/hijack it for their purposes without the bulk of the peoples/the uninitiated even knowing it has happened.

Most peoples have no idea that the United Nations has spent billions studying religion in order to find a way to replace the worlds religions with a common religion.

Humanitarian is just another word for tyranny one4all. A tyranny enforced in the manner outlined in the Georgia Guidestones. Where a system is created where men are subject to nature...not men being able by their own efforts and talents to conquer nature but to be subject to nature herself. To live at a basic substance level or lower while an elite live off the production of everyone else. This is historically called Feudalism. And we have already had Feudalism for most of the records of the history of men.

You want to use China as a prime example of Humanitarian...what are you thinking. They killed some 40 million of their own people...and without nuclear weapons. What are you thinking here??
What kind of devout religion does a government have to steadfastly kill off some 40 millions of their own peoples? Think this one through carefully.

Astonishing what happens as intelligence and morality on ATS at times.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999,what you see as ignorance in my posts is really the stinging you feel because I have assaulted your reality at its individualistic core,I am a believer in a humanitarian future at the cost of perspectives like your own and I openly state it ,why wouldnt I ,all the countries and entities you named in your post were religously motivated,as I said earlier,if you believe in an imaginary god who has imaginary powers YOU CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ASSUME ANY TYPE OF HUMANITARIAN RESPONSIBILITY OR LEADERSHIP ROLE.If you support this type of nationalistic,individualistic,selfish,regrissive reality in any way shape or form I am suggesting you choose to consider humanities welfare before your own .

I know why you flinched,and yes you got it right,I think you are supporting the wrong reality ,I believe that humanities future depends on offering enough humans a reality that is an alternative to yours THAT YOURS DISAPPEARS,I am even trying to show you the method that has been used by your churches and governments as we know them today to put you where you are---even as I and many others in the world are using it to try to PULL YOU OUT.


Dont try the DEFEND THE CHURCH AND GOVERNMENT crap with me please,AS I SAID RELIGONS AND GOVERNMENTS AS WE KNOW THEM TODAY.

These institutions were originally created out of need ,they are integral to us as a species,but they have been manipulated and used as a weapon to enslave humanity ,these golden principals of humanity have been degraded and decayed by misuse,misdirection,and this has been done with intent by a very few humans to the detriment OF BILLIONS OF OTHER HUMANS.

Yea,yea,yea,we need religon--but no imaginary gods that allow you to kill humans and then be forgiven,sorry for your luck,just say the words DIVINE FORGIVENESS and you will be imprisoned as being a threat to humanity,shocking isnt it,just how bad all you religous nuts have been isnt it.

To think that you believe you have a right to defend this dangerous perspective ,and as far as your democratic vote goes,it means squat in todays global reality UNLESS EVERYONE ON THE PLANET HAS THE SAME AND EQUAL VOTE.

So your governments are also crap and obsolete UNLESS THEY CONSIDER THE GLOBAL REALITY WE ALL EXIST IN TODAY.

We cant go back in time,we can only prevent ourselves from repeating our errors,hence see ya religon and government as we have known it,---AND HELLO WORLD DEMOCRACY AND DISEMPOWERED RELIGON GLOBALLY.

No one wants a world with no government and we all want to choose our own belief systems,BUT EVERYTHING WILL BE DICTATED BY HUMANITIES NEEDS AS DEFINED BY A TRULY DEMOCRATIC GLOBAL FORUM THROUGH WHICH THE VOICE AND WISHES OF EVER SINGLE HUMAN ON EARTH WILL BE DEFINED HEARD AND ACCOUNTED FOR.

Sorry if this cramps your style a little,but mine and about four billion other people are felling a little more cramped than you are AND WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DISARMING YOU SO YOUR VOICE AND YOUR BITE MATCH YOUR TINY LITTLE SIZE-THINK GNAT HERE OK.

When you have been disarmed we will revisit this conversation from a more equitable platform for all concerned,including those that currently dont own guns.

China is as important a part of humanities future as any other country on the planet.Just stop thinking countries and everything makes sense.

Dont forget the past,but only allow the past to become a launching point for your future not a casket for your aspirations.

People all over the world have been decieved in the same manner,dont you see that just by virtue of being on this site now you are smart enough to understand how those 40 million people were allowed to be killed,BECAUSE YOU SEE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO BE KILLED BY YOU AND I AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET---WE MUST ACCEPT OUR HUMANITARIAN RESPONSIBILITY FOR EACH OTHER AND CREATE A SAFE AND HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT FOR HUMANITY.We must advocate a one world democracy,that eliminates regional governments and regional armies,no more killing,period.

We prevent 40 million more from dieing by educating 80 million or 1 billion to A REALITY THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE DEATH AND MURDER AND WAR,and it all starts with you Orangetom1999,do you feel the pressure yet ,because you can never un-learn what you now know and the burden SHOULD GET HEAVIER AND HEAVIER ,FOR SURE---THATS WHY YOU GOT THIS FAR---YOU ARE ON THIS SITE TO FIND SOMEONE TO HELP BEAR THE WEIGHT OF YOUR HUMANITARIAN CONSCIENCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY,we are all here to one degree or another,and are all supportive,to one degree or another.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by one4all]