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When does the military officially own you?

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posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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Say Chuck signed up for the Marine Corp. because he did not know what he wanted to do with his life out of highschool. Chuck spends about a year training/PT with current Marines at a recruiting office.

Chuck finally gets sent down to MEPS and gets all of his test done and finally (12 hours later) is sworn in before leaving back to the recruiting station. About a month before his shipping date Chuck decides he knows what he wants to do with his life, and as much as he would like to be, it's not to be a Marine. Is it too late? Chuck has already sworn his life to serve his country...What happen's to Chuck? Do they own him?




posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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No.

I went through basic in the Army and they said if you don't want to be here then we don't want you. They said this up until the end of the first week or so. Alot quit and they left with an other then honorable discharge. It is like you wasn't there as it does not affect your ability to get a job or security clearance.



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by NateNute
 


To answer your question you can leave the military up untill the day of graduation. However most recruiters dont want you to know this. Upon graduation you are officially a member of the armed forces untill that point your a recruit and there is no punishment for leaving.



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Well, this can be complicated. Yes, one can be discharged with an other than honorable discharge, or a less than honorable discharge or a general discharge.This brings to mind a guy who was in my platoon. He decided he didn't want to be in the army. He was a good guy, just not cut out for the discipline. He asked me for help. I checked all the pertaining regulations, and he had passed the time when he could be discharged with no trouble to himself. His recruiter told him one thing, the people in charge of him in basic and advanced training told him some other BS. So when he came to me he was past the date. I tried very hard to encourage my chain of command to just let this kid go. But they all disagreed with me. So it came to this. I told him, the only way out I can see for you to get out is to screw up badly. He tried. He got a few article 15 punishments. Finally he said, the hell with it and went AWOL, because the PTB in my battalion would not take my recommendations. He returned later. He was then given a courst martial. At the trial, many higher ranking people wanted him to go to jail. Finally, as his platoon sergeant, I took the stand and was asked what my thoughts and recommendations were. I told the sitting officer what all had happened. I named the superiors who had thwarted my efforts to just let this kid go home and forget about it all and get on with his life. The recommended he be immediately be processed out, given a general discharge and returned to the city where he enlisted, at government expense. The officer thanked me, and immediately adjudicated the case according to my recommendations. Then I faced a gaunlet of reporting to higher ranking people to have my butt chewed, etc. lol. Anyway, it didn't faze me because in my mind I was right and besides, I was a freaking platoon sergeant and I believed myself to be invincible. lol. Anyway, this is an answer to what can happen in a case where a military member changes mind after signing and swearing in and wants to quit.

Heh. Just wanted to add. When does the miltary own you? Well, I was sick with kidney failure while in the army. I wanted out and to go home and be with family and friends and do what was necessary to fix me. The powers that be wanted me to stay in and finish my tour of duty. I contacted the post Command Sergeant Major, told him my thoughts, he overrode everybody else, including captains majors and colonels. I received an immediate early retirement, and was merrily sent on my way. Afterb some months at my new home I was contacted by a representative of the army and told I must report to duty because I still owed them 3 more years. lol. Did the army own me then? Hell, no. I laughed and hung up the phone and threw away the mailed orders that were sent to me later. They no longer owned me because I refused to play the game.

[edit on 31-3-2009 by kyred]



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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Well done Kyred. Thanks for all of the replies, I was curious if they would be knocking on my, I mean Chuck's door in the future and if he would be forced to go. My grandfather said he had to do that when he was in the army, but maybe he was collecting draft dodgers.



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by NateNute
Say Chuck signed up for the Marine Corp. because he did not know what he wanted to do with his life out of highschool. Chuck spends about a year training/PT with current Marines at a recruiting office.


Chuck signed up hastily, possibly without looking into other options.

I would say, Chuck is not the type of Marine I want defending our country, and if he is having second thoughts, I think he should be let go. He should have to pay the US back for his housing, clothing and meals, and training.

The US does should not have to be held responsible for people that make choices without checking in to other options.

I say let him go, because he would make a lousy soldier! But he owes us all for taking care of him over the year while he decided what to do!



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Hastily indeed, but dont most highschoolers make mistakes? But they never gave Chuck anything. He never shipped off. He trained at a recruiting station...not some base. So he owes them nothing. If Chuck could live the life he has now, and another as a Marine, he would. But life just doesn't work like that.



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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I always thought they "owned" you after you signed the papers for X years of service. I think I am wrong though from kyred's story from above.



posted on Mar, 31 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by NateNute
Hastily indeed, but dont most highschoolers make mistakes? But they never gave Chuck anything. He never shipped off. He trained at a recruiting station...not some base. So he owes them nothing. If Chuck could live the life he has now, and another as a Marine, he would. But life just doesn't work like that.


Nope, sorry, this so does not hold weight. Chuck has parents who should be helping him make descisions. They are happy to see him go off, because they do not have to feed him anymore. They are not responsible for his clothing, and other expenses.

If Chuck made a rash descision, whereby he was fed, housed and clothed, and he received training, he ows the American tax payer back for having been provided these things.

He was not deployed, and he was fed, clothed and housed.

Are you saying because Chuck made a bad descision, that he should get off scott free because he bowed out, and did not live up to the commitment he signed up for?

Nothing is free, and if my tax dollars went to support Chuck for a year, and he could not live up to his obligation, because of a bad descision, then you are wrong.

Chuck does not live for free, unless he defends the free.

Sorry, you are wrong.

The US doesn't owe Chuck a free ride for a year, until he decides what he wants to do with his life!

edit for typos

[edit on 31-3-2009 by Blanca Rose]



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Apparently you are ignorant or you cannot read. Chuck was not clothed or fed by them for a year. He only pted with them. PT = free. Have a nice day. Not everyones parents are the ideal parents you want them to be on helping you make decisions.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Sorry, but you missed the boat completely on this one. CHUCK has not wasted ANYONE's money. I went through this same process when I went in. I didn't get any free food or clothes or ANYTHING. The only thing that was free or provided for me was the test. Then I went through the physical and decided on my occupation. But Chuck, if he didn't actually enter basic, wasted no one's money. You do not understand the process if this is your illogical assumption.

Get off Chuck's back. I would want my son to think it through and it is all within his supposed RIGHTS as an American to decide NOT to join.

Even if he went through basic training he does NOT have to finish. Of course they will tell you that you do. You will not get court marshalled or dishonorably discharged. You are NOT a soldier yet.

Under this situation your argument may hold a little more weight. Because then he will have received his uniforms and some free meals. And a Lot of yelling in the face and tons of exercise (of the body, mind and soul).

However, you are simply way off on Chuck's situation with your remarks.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Kyred is right. What Chuck wants to do is tell the recruiter he wants an ELS, or entry level separation. This basically voids the enlistment. Chuck is still classified as a "POOLEE" in the DEP. Same thing I did... Oh, but I thought before I made the decision, and followed through.

I saw alot of recruits leave Parris Island because they couldn't hack it, or were injured badly enough to want to quit, illness, etc. They all get ELS's. I am pretty sure they even get a DD214, because they did swear in.

Chuck would have ended up in Casual Co. anyway. Tell him to join the girl scouts... that sounds more his speed. Oh well, it was cool to tell all his buddies his senior year that he was joining the ranks of the best.

[edit on 3/4/09 by cbianchi513]

[edit on 3/4/09 by cbianchi513]



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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It sounds like Chuck was in the delayed entry progam. You can back out until the day you ship and swear in for the second time and sign your paperwork. Recruiters want you to think you can't change your mind after you go to M.E.P.S., but that is not true. Once you swear in the second time and ship out to MCRD Parris Island or MCRD San Diego, the quickest way out of there is to graduate or keep UNC'ing the rifle range or fail CWS. Otherwise, your shi#bird @ss belongs to the DI's and then SOI or MCT, depending on your MOS, Then it's off to the fleet cause you are now a hard-charging, motivated, dedicated, devildog.

SEMPER FI



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by devildogUSMC
 



No way brother... don't you remember Casual Company? It was all the .cases and such... Down by 4Bn at PISC. Remember?

Spirit and Discipline Devil Dog!
Semper Fi...



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Uncing at the P.I. rifle range repeatedly to get out is a bad idea. Knew a guy who kept uncing and finally graduated with my company after 6 months. Every single PMI at the range knew him, called him Recruit Hathcock lol. I honestly wanted to quit but I knew the fastest way off was graduation, and if I still wanted out after that, I knew I'd find a way. And I did after being in for 18 months. Wasn't a turd, just upset that my contract didn't go through as planned and they wouldn't let me go so I uhh found a way.

And the reason they're so reluctant to let people go regardless of the circumstances is not only because they're needed in the fight but because literally everyone who gets out misses it. I repeatedly swore to myself once I was out of the grunts I wouldn't look back, civilian life FTW, all that. But I'm trying my best to get back in, only thing is those RE-4s can be kiiiinda difficult to get around but I'm not giving up. My BN CO told me he'd see people in my position back on active duty a few years later and they'd be like "sir you were absolutely right" but I pretty much thought it was bullsh!t to get me to stay. Maybe this is the kick in the pants I needed to go back in with the right attitude though?

The things that civies complain about is enough to make me go back as a lifer. Booohooo I got wet at work and had to drive home wet, waaa I have to go sit in class for an hour, waaaaaa it's too slow we need more tables oh look we have more tables waaa waaa I wish it would slow down in this place waaaaa



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by Well
 



Thank you brother. On another thread it was mentioned that the poster was "worried" about the "new Marine". I.E. younger marines.

I'm glad that "kids" like you are carrying the torch.

Rct. Hathcock... hehe, only a gyrine would catch that one, unless they like books.


Don't give up trying to go back bro. I'm 33, have too many busted parts in my back, and blew my right ACL last year.

I'll be one of the last they call, but I'll be ready.

I also agree with the attitude on civvies. It gets better with time brother. Just adjust, adapt, and overcome.

Edit: I actually just remembered a rct. that UNC'd while I was at PISC... according to the instructors I spoke to, he basically went catatonic after he failed the third time. He went to Charleston Naval Hospital.

Not a good discharge...

[edit on 3/4/09 by cbianchi513]




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