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posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 09:33 PM
The term "G-d" is used in this essay to respect the Jewish prohibition against spelling the name or title of the deity in full. Dates listed which are prior to the 4th century BCE are approximate.

Early History of Judaism
Circa 2000 BCE, the G-d of the ancient Israelites established a divine covenant with Abraham, making him the patriarch of many nations. The term Abramic Religions is derived from his name. These are the four religions which trace their roots back to Abraham: Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i World Faith. The book of Genesis describes the events surrounding the lives of the three patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (Joseph, who is recognized as a fourth patriarch by Christians is not considered one by Jews). Moses was the next leader of the ancient Israelites. He led his people out of captivity in Egypt, and received the Law from G-d. After decades of wandering through wilderness, Joshua led the tribes into the promised land, driving out the Canaanites through a series of military battles.

The original tribal organization was converted into a kingdom by Samuel; its first king was Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the religious and political center. The third king, Solomon built the first temple there.

Division into the Northern kingdom of Israel and the Southern kingdom of Judah occurred shortly after the death of Solomon in 922 BCE. Israel fell to Assyria in 722 BCE; Judah fell to the Babylonians in 587 BCE. The temple was destroyed. Some Jews returned from captivity under the Babylonians and started to restore the temple in 536 BCE. (Orthodox Jews date the Babylonian exile from 422 to 352 BCE). Alexander the Great invaded the area in 332 BCE. From circa 300 to 63 BCE, Greek became the language of commerce, and Greek culture had a major influence on Judaism. In 63 BCE, the Roman Empire took control of Palestine.

Four major (and some minor) religious sects had formed by the 1st century AD: the Basusim, Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees. Many anticipated the arrival of the Messiah who would drive the Roman invaders out and restore independence. Christianity was established initially as a Jewish sect, centered in Jerusalem. Paul broke with this tradition and spread the religion to the Gentiles (non-Jews). Many mini-revolts led to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 CE. The Jewish Christians were wiped out or scattered at this time. The movement started by Paul flourished and quickly evolved into the religion of Christianity. Jews were scattered throughout the known world. Their religion was no longer centered in Jerusalem; Jews were prohibited from setting foot there. Judaism became decentralized and stopped seeking converts. The local synagogue became the new center of Jewish life, and authority shifted from the centralized priesthood to local scholars and teachers, giving rise to Rabbinic Judaism.

The period from the destruction of the temple onward give rise to heavy persecution by Christians throughout Europe and Russia. Many groundless stories were spread, accusing Jews of ritual murder, the desecration of the Catholic host and continuing responsibility for the execution of Jesus . Unsubstantiated rumors continue to be circulated today. In the 1930s and 1940s, Adolph Hitler and the German Nazi party drew on centuries of anti-Semitism, and upon their own psychotic beliefs in racial purity. They organized the Holocaust, the attempted extermination of all Jews in Europe. About 6 million were killed in one of the world's greatest examples of religious and racial intolerance.

The Zionist movement was a response within all Jewish traditions to centuries of Christian persecution. Their initial goal was create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The state of Israel was formed on 1948-MAY-18.

There are currently about 18 million Jews throughout the world. They are mainly concentrated in North America (about 7 million) and Israel (about 4.5 million).

Jewish Texts
The Tanakh corresponds to the Jewish Scriptures, (often referred to as the Old Testament by Christians). It is composed of three groups of books:

the Torah (aka Pentateuch): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

the Nevi'im: Joshua, Judges, Samuel (2), Kings (2), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah, MalachiIsaiah, Amos.

the Ketuvim, the "Writings" including Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Ruth, Esther, Lamentations, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles (2).

The Talmud contains stories, laws, medical knowledge, debates about moral choices, etc. It is composed of material which comes mainly from two sources:

the Mishnah, 6 "orders" containing hundreds of chapters, including series of laws from the Hebrew Scriptures. It was compiled about 200 CE.

the Gemara (one Babylonian and one Palestinian) is encyclopedic in scope. It includes comments from hundreds of Rabbis from 200 - 500 CE, explaining the Mishnah with additional historical, religious, legal, sociological, etc. material. It often records many different opinions on a topic without giving a definitive answer.

Traditional Jewish Beliefs
They include:

G-d is the creator of all that exists; he is one, incorporeal (without a body), and he alone is to be worshipped as absolute ruler of the universe.

The first five books of the Hebrew Bible were revealed to Moses by G-d. It will not be changed or augmented in the future.

G-d has communicated to the Jewish people through prophets.

G-d monitors the activities of humans; he rewards individuals for good deeds and punishes evil

Although Christians base much of their faith on the same Hebrew Scriptures as Jews, there are major differences in belief: Jews generally consider actions and behavior to be of primary importance; beliefs come out of actions. This conflicts with conservative Christians for whom belief is of primary importance and actions tend to be secondary.

Jewish belief does not accept the Christian concept of original sin (the belief that all people have inherited Adam and Eve's sin when they disobeyed G-d's instructions in the Garden of Eden).

Judaism affirms the inherent goodness of the world and its people as creations of G-d.

Believers are able to sanctify their lives and draw closer to G-d by performing fulfilling mitzvot (divine commandments).

No savior is needed or is available as an intermediary.

Beliefs about Jesus vary considerably. Some view him as a great moral teacher. Others see him as a false prophet or as an idol of Christianity. Some sects of Judaism will not even say his name due to the prohibition against saying an idol's name.

The Jews are often referred to as G-d's chosen people. This does not mean that they are in any way to be considered superior to other groups. Biblical verses such as Exodus 19:5 simply imply that G-d has selected Israel to receive and study the Torah, to worship G-d only, to rest on the Sabbath, and to celebrate the festivals. Jews were not chosen to be better that others; they were simply selected to receive more difficult responsibilities, and more onerous punishment if they fail.

The 613 commandments found in Leviticus and other books regulate all aspects of Jewish life

The Ten commandments, as delineated in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21, form a brief synopsis of the Law

The Messiah (anointed one of G-d) will arrive in the future and gather Jews once more into the land of Israel. There will be a general resurrection of the dead at that time. The Jerusalem Temple, destroyed in 70 CE, will be rebuilt.
Boys reach the status of Bar Mitzvah on their 13th birthday; girls reach Bat Mitzvah on their 12th birthday. This means that they are recognized as adults and are personally responsible to follow the Jewish commandments and laws; they are allowed to lead a religious service; they are counted in a "minyan" (a quota of men necessary to perform certain parts of religious services); they can sign contracts; they can testify in religious courts; theoretically, they can marry, although the Talmud recommends 18 to 24 as the proper age for marriage.

The more liberal movements within Judaism differ from some of the above beliefs concerning the source of the Torah, the concept of direct reward and punishment according to one's behavior, etc.

Jewish Practices
They include:

Observation of the Sabbath as a day of rest, starting at sundown on Friday evening.

Strict discipline, according to the Law, which governs all areas of life Regular attendance by Jewish males at Synagogue

Celebration of the annual festivals including: Passover, or Pesach is held each Spring to recall the Jews' deliverance out of slavery in Egypt circa 1300 BCE. A ritual Seder meal is eaten in each observing Jewish home at this time. Six different foods are placed on the seder plate in the order in which they area eaten:
Karpas (vegetables dipped in salt water) recalls the bitter tears shed during slavery

Maror (bitter herbs) to symbolize the bitterness of slavery.

Chazeret (bitter vegetables) also to symbolize the bitterness of slavery.

Choroset (apple, nuts & spices with wine) represents the mortar used by Hebrew slaves.

Also placed on the seder plate, but uneaten during the Seder meal: Zeroa (lamb shankbone) to recall the Passover sacrifice in the ancient temple.

Beitzah (roasted egg) symbolizes mourning, sacrifice, spring, and renewal.

Not placed on the Seder plate, but often eaten, is a boiled egg.

Rosh Hashanah is the Jewish New Year, and is the anniversary of the completion of creation, about 5760 years ago. It is held in the fall.

The 10 days from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, are days of fasting and penitence.

Sukkoth or the Feast of Booths is an 8 day harvest festival; a time of thanksgiving.

Hanukkah or the Feast of Lights is an 8 day feast of dedication. It recalls the war fought by the Maccabees in the cause of religious freedom. It is typically observed in December. Originally a minor Jewish holy day, it has become more important in recent years.

Purim, the Feast of Lots recalls the defeat by Queen Esther of the plan to slaughter all of the Persian Jews, circa 400 BCE.

Shavout, the Feast of Weeks recalls G-d's revelation of the Torah to the Jewish people. It is held in late May or early June.

Rules for calculating Rosh Hashanah and Passover are available online at:

The local synagogue is governed by the congregation and is normally led by a rabbi who has been chosen by the congregation. A rabbi is a teacher who has been well educated in Jewish law and tradition.

Any adult male with sufficient knowledge can lead religious services. In reform and some conservative congregations, a woman can also preside. This is often done in those Jewish communities who lack a rabbi.

The Chief Rabbis in France and Great Britain have authority only by the agreement of those who accept it. Two Chief Rabbis in Israel have civil authority in areas of family law.

Jewish Movements:
There are five main forms of Judaism in the world today:

Conservative* Judaism: This began in the mid-nineteenth century as a reaction against the Reform movement. It is a main-line movement midway between Reform and Orthodox.

Humanistic Judaism: This is a very small group, mainly composed of atheists and agnostics, who regard mankind as the measure of all things.

Orthodox* Judaism: This the oldest, most conservative, and most diverse form of Judaism. Modern Orthodox, Chasidim and Ultra Orthodox share a basic belief in the derivation of Jewish law, even as they hold very different outlooks on life. They attempt to follow the original form of Judaism as they view it to be. They look upon every word in their sacred texts as being divinely inspired.

Reconstructionist Judaism: This is a new, small, liberal movement started by Mordecai Kaplan as an attempt to unify and revitalize the religion. They reject the concept that Jews are a uniquely favored and chosen people. They have no connection at all with Christian Reconstructionism, which is an ultra-conservative form of Christianity.

Reform* Judaism: They are a liberal group, followed by many North American Jews. The movement started in the 1790's in Germany. They follow the ethical laws of Judaism, but leave up to the individual the decision whether to follow or ignore the dietary and other traditional laws. They use modern forms of worship. There are many female rabbis in reform congregations.

* These are the largest forms of Judaism.

A survey conducted in 2001 for the 2002 edition of the American Jewish Year Book indicated that fewer that 10% of American Jews are estimated to be Orthodox. However, Orthodox synagogues represent 40% of all U.S. synagogues. Reform Judaism has 26 percent of all synagogues; Conservatives have 23 percent. "Every other denomination or group representing synagogues - Reconstructionist, Sephardi, Traditional, Humanistic, Gay/Lesbian - accounts for 3 percent or less of synagogue affiliations..." 8 The total number of U.S. synagogues has increased from 2,851 in 1936 to 3,727 in 2001.

Jewish-Christian Relations:
The faith of Israel, as described in the Hebrew Scriptures, had divided into a number of Jewish Sects (the Basusim, Pharisees, Essenes, Saducees, Zealots and others) by the early first century CE. Subsequently, a number of events of momentous importance occurred:

30 CE: Some Jews, following the teachings of Jeshua (known by Christians as Jesus Christ), formed a Jewish Christian reform movement within Judaism under the leadership of James, an apostle of Jeshua.

circa 55 CE: Paul, a Jewish persecutor of Christians, became converted to Christianity and started to organize Pauline Christian churches throughout much of the Roman empire in conflict with the Jewish Christians.

70 CE: The Roman army destroyed the Temple and the rest of Jerusalem.

132 CE: Many Jews accepted Bar Kochba as the Messiah. This led to a hopeless three-year revolt against the Roman Empire. About a half-million Jews were killed; thousands were sold into slavery or taken into captivity. The rest were exiled from Palestine and scattered throughout the known world in what is called the "Diaspora."

Out of these events came two major world religions:

Judaism in its Rabbinical form, centered in local synagogues, scattered throughout the known world, and Pauline Christianity which later became centered in Rome.

Relations between the two religions became strained. The Christian Scriptures include many examples of anti-Judaism. One of the gospels, written during the last third of the 1st century CE, included the accusation that all Jews, (past, present, and future), are responsible for deicide: the killing of G-d. This form of religious propaganda was serious enough in its original setting, as long as Christianity remained a small reform movement within Judaism. There are many examples of inter-religious friction throughout literature of that era; indeed, it is prevalent today. But when the Christian religion became the official religion of Rome in the late 4th century CE, Christianity became sufficiently powerful to actively oppress and persecute Jews. This led to numerous exterminations of groups of Jews during the Dark Ages, Middle Ages, Renaissance and into the modern era. Ancient Christian teachings and practices paved the way for the Nazi holocaust during World War II.

Today, only a few fringe Christian groups still teach that Jews are responsible for Christ's death. Many Christian denominations teach that the promises that G-d made to the Jewish people have been withdrawn and transferred to the Christian Church. This teaching has led to conflicts over attempts to evangelize Jews. Although anti-Semitism has been abandoned by most in North America, the relationships between Christians and Jews have much room for improvement.

A page of links to Jewish web sites is at:
An index of class notes for a University of Alberta course called "Judaism in the Modern Age" is at:
Judaism 101 is an "online encyclopedia of Judaism, covering Jewish beliefs, people, places, things, language, scripture, holidays, practices and customs." See:
The official FAQ of the Soc.Culture.Jewish newsgroup is at: This extensive list of questions and answers was developed by a committee of Jews from all denominations.
Robert Kaiser, Frequently Asked Questions about Judaism at: Topics covered are: Jewish principles of faith, The Jewish denominations, and revelation and Torah bill themselves as "The Jewish MEGA-Site" with considerable justification. It is a wide-ranging Jewish web site with a broad list of topics. See:
Click on Judaism is a project of the Reform Movement Commission on Synagogue Affiliation. It invites Jews in their 20s and 30s to explore liberal Judaism. See
"Press Release: American Jewish Committee Publishes Synagogue Census," 2002-AUG-7, at:

posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 10:04 PM
The jews (are) responsible for the death of christ because
they thought he was a false prophet and rejected his miracles and works while
being a teacher of the law like no one has ever been.

They rejected the words of the prophets about the lords coming.

they rejected moses who talked about the saviour himself.

They still sacrafice abominations to god.

They still to this day reject the 2000 years of miracles specifically to do
with christ.

They will believe the real antichrist is their saviour.

WW2 was (not) the cause of ancient christian teaching, it was the cause of
an evil heretic to what christ really taught.

Not only did hitler go after jews but he ordered the death of catholics and protestants, many christians
were ordered to death by the same man.

he was an man who believed that he could take gods justice into his own hands which is contrary
to biblical teaching.

heres a miracle of the (pagan) christianity and the false christ.

btw, why does every post have to turn out in a christian bash topic?

could you not just of explained what judaism was without blasting the church of god?


posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 10:10 PM
let me guess?

The infidels put that cross in the wtc rubble?


posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 10:21 PM
Note: We usually avoid criticizing religious beliefs. However we are making an exception in this case.

Throughout most of its history, Christian groups taught that:

All Jews (past, present and future) shared equal responsibility for the killing of Jesus.
After the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, they lost their "special status" that was guaranteed to them in the Hebrew Scriptures. They were no longer the covenant people.
The Christian church, often referred to as "spiritual Israel," was seen as having displaced the descendents of Abraham, and having taken the place of the Jews. God was believed to have abandoned the Jews. Rev. Bailey Smith, former head of the Southern Baptist Convention, said, at the 1980 Religious Roundtable national affairs briefing in Dallas TX that "God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." 12
Centuries of persecutions and exterminations of European Jews by Christians were the inevitable, logical result of these three beliefs. The human devastation generated by these particular Christian doctrines can never be calculated.

The concept that present-day Jews are responsible for Jesus' execution is illogical and immoral by any religious or moral standard that we have heard of. Fortunately, that belief has now been rejected by essentially all Christian groups. Just as it is ridiculous and nonsensical to hold today's Jews responsible for something that happened dozens of generations before their birth, it is equally inappropriate to hold modern-day Christians responsible for the anti-Semitic actions of their spiritual ancestors.

However, we all need to study past injustices in order to understand present religiously motivated exterminations, and to prevent similar wrongs in the future. We only have to look at recent activities in Bosnia, East Timor, India, Middle East, India, Northern Ireland, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, and other world hot spots to see the evils that people still do in the name of religion.

Why bother assessing blame about Jesus' execution?
If Jesus was just another victim of the harsh Roman rule - one of the many tens of thousands of slaves and rebels that the Romans crucified, then his life and death might not even have been recorded. But he is one of the founders of the largest religion in the world: Christianity. And he is believed by most Christians to be part of the Godhead. So his execution was very special indeed. Christians consider it to be in a unique category -deicide, the killing of God.

From a legal point of view, if we accept the Gospel writers' accounts as accurate, then the prime responsibility for Jesus' death would be assigned to the Roman army personnel who ordered and carried out the execution. Lower levels of blame would be assigned to the local Jewish authorities and the mob who called for Jesus' death. Those ordinary Jewish citizens who did not form part of the mob would not share blame. And, of course, their children of those responsible would be totally innocent of any crime. Christianity followed a different belief system - one that it has only recently abandoned. The churches taught and the people believed for almost 2 millennia that all of the descendents of the 1st century Palestinian Jews were responsible for the murder - even though they might have been 70 or more generations and thousands of miles removed from the crime.

Edward Alexander1, while reviewing a book Christian Antisemitism by William Nichols2, commented:

"...since the ideology of Jew-hatred and its catastrophic modern result originated in Christendom, it is Christians more than Jews who should be searching out their roots and trying to extirpate them...Nicholls believes that neither modern antisemitism nor the Holocaust can be understood without taking into account the way the people of Europe had been taught about the Jews from their childhood up by their own religious tradition...The popular view that the Nazis chose Jews as their primary [Holocaust] target because 2,000 years of Christian teaching had accustomed the world to do so is, in Nicholls's view, essentially correct. In fact, he traces all modern forms of antisemitism, from liberal and Marxist to conservative and Nazi, to the Christian myth of Jews as the killers of Christ."

How, when, where, why and by whom was Jesus Killed?
How: He was killed by crucifixion - a technique reserved for punishing slaves and persons perceived as rebels or terrorists. He was first whipped. Then, his wrists and ankles were nailed or tied to a wooden structure. This consisted of an upright post that may have had a horizontal beam connected to it at or near the top. The traditional portrayal of Christ's crucifixions is inaccurate in a number of ways: Nails pierced the victim' wrists, not his hands. (The weight of a body will tear the flesh free from a nail if it is driven through a palm.)
A piece of wood was placed next to the flesh before the nail was hammered in place. This prevented the victim from pulling his arm or leg free.
The victim was not usually suspended high off the ground; his feet would probably have been only a short distance above the earth. Dogs and other scavengers were able to attack the victim, and to eat parts of the dead body.
The victim was naked; they were not even permitted a loin cloth to wear.

Many crucifixions of that era used a single vertical pole; others used a pole and a cross-beam at the top in the shape of the letter "T". Still others used the type of Roman cross that is so often shown in crucifixes and artwork. There does not appear to be conclusive evidence of the exact design that was used to kill Jesus.

After the victim was dead, the body was typically thrown on a dump to be eaten by scavenging animals. Some theologians believe that this was Jesus' fate. The Gospels give a conflicting story; they record how Joseph of Arimathea obtained permission to bury Jesus in a tomb.

In summary, a horrors of a crucifixion were designed to have the greatest deterrent effect on the populace: The victim was usually scourged in advance of the crucifixion - sometimes to the point of near death.
The victim was often required to carry the cross-piece of the cross to the place of execution and to endure the taunts of the people along the way.
Nails driven through wrists and ankles would be terribly painful.
The victim was hung naked and fully exposed to the public view.
Deuteronomy 21:23 says: "for he who is hanged [on a tree] is accursed of God." It would have distressed a Jew to know that God would curse anyone who was crucified.
In all probability, the victim would be attacked by birds while he was dying.
He would not be given a proper burial but would probably be eaten by birds and dogs. This was a horrendous fate for a Jew at the time - even more that it would be today.

When: Most people believe that Jesus was nailed to the cross/stake and crucified on a Friday morning, just before Passover about 30 CE. The Gospels of Peter, Chapters 4 & 5; Mark 15; Matthew 27; Luke 23 and John 19 record the events associated with the crucifixion. (The Gospel of Peter was apparently written before the remaining 4 gospels.7 But it never made it into the Christian Scriptures.) Most Gospel writers state the crucifixion began at the 3rd hour (9 AM), and that Jesus died about the 9th hour (3 PM). The exact year is unknown; a range of dates from 30 to 32 CE have been suggested.

Where: He was murdered at Golgotha, (The Place of the Skull). This was the location of executions at Jerusalem. It was originally located outside the city gates. Jerusalem has since grown to encompass the site. Its exact location is unknown. A church has been erected on what some Christians believe was the location of the crucifixion.

Why: Since Jesus was not a slave, then he must have been viewed by the Roman authorities as a rebel - a threat to the established order. Only slaves, traitors and insurrectionists were crucified by the Roman occupying forces.

By Whom: He was executed by soldiers of the Jerusalem garrison of the Roman army. They were the only organization in 1st century Palestine authorized to commit executions. They were also the only group with the necessary experience at this grisly task. The gospels record that the execution was authorized by Pontius Pilate, Governor of Judea. The Bible describes that Pilate's judgment was influenced greatly by the local Jewish leaders and by a Jewish mob; many religious liberals view this as unhistoric.

posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 10:31 PM
Who historical Christianity blamed for Jesus' execution:
Until the 19th century, all groups within Christianity accepted the concept of Biblical inerrancy. That is, that the authors of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures (Old and New Testament) were inspired by God in such a way that their writings were free of error. Thus the stories in the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John which describe Jesus arrest, his trial before the Sanhedrin, the interview before Pilate, death sentence, beating, crucifixion, death and burial were regarded as precise descriptions of historical events. Some key phrases from the gospels are:

Matthew 27:20 to 23: "The chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas [to be released] and to have Jesus executed...'What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called Christ?', Pilate asked. They all answered 'Crucify him.'...they shouted all the louder. 'Crucify him'...Pilate...took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. 'I am innocent of this man's blood,' he said. 'It is your responsibility!' All the people answered, 'Let his blood be on us and on our children!' "

John 19:12: "From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar...Take him away. 'Crucify him!' "

The early church believed that the Jews were responsible for Christ's death. As stated in Matthew, Jews at the time accepted full responsibility for the act. Further, they acknowledged that their children would equally share in the blame. ("Children" was interpreted to mean all of their descendents). The Church apparently did not question whether a person can morally transfer their responsibility onto to their children, and to their children's children, and onto all future descendents.

A later quotation of Jesus:

Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do..."

appears to call for forgiveness of those responsible for Jesus' death. However, this verse appears to have been ignored by the Church as far as the Jews were concerned.

Justin Martyr (circa 100 to 165 CE) and Irenaeus of Lyon (circa 130 to 200 CE) developed the concept of "supercessionism." This is sometimes called the "theology of displacement." By calling for Jesus' execution and by rejecting his teachings, the Jews were seen as losing their favored position as God's chosen people. Christianity displaced Judaism in God's eyes. The Christian Church became regarded as the 'true' or 'spiritual' Israel.5

"Since they broke their ancient covenant with God, He made a new one with a new people drawn from the Gentiles. As punishment for their crime, the Jews lost their Temple and were exiled from their land. The lethal combination of the theology of supersession (which gave the world the "Old Testament" in place of the Jewish Bible) and the myth of the deicide people made the Jews a permanent target for Christian hostility and contempt, destined to be preserved in misery that would be the eternal mark of their perfidy." 1

The supercessionism doctrine was largely accepted within the church by the 4th century. As a logical result of these beliefs, the church engaged "in all manner of anti-Semitic acts of abuse, discrimination, outright hostility, and finally genocide--the Holocaust--because they were taught that God was through with the Jews." 6

Many Fundamentalist and some other Evangelical denominations today reject anti-Semitism while still accepting the theology of displacement. Many view Jews in the same light as Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims, etc: as groups of unsaved individuals destined for punishment in Hell for not accepting the gospel message and trusting in Jesus as Lord and Savior. They teach that God has abandoned the Jews as his chosen people, and that he transferred these honors to the Christian church. These denominations stress the importance of evangelizing Jews others. This generates considerable anger within the Jewish community; most Jews do not appreciate attempts to convert them to Christianity.

Liberal theologians' interpretation of Jesus' death and the current status of Judaism:
Liberal Christians typically reject the "supercessionism" doctrine and favor the "dual covenant" belief: That the original covenants between God and the Jewish people are still valid, and continue today in full force; and that
God has also established a new, parallel covenant with Christians.

Thus, both Judaism and Christianity are treated as major world religions, of equivalent stature. Both are seen as rooted in the ancient Jewish faith. But, after the events of 30 CE (Jesus' execution) to 132 CE (the scattering of Jews throughout the Roman Empire), only two main groups survived: Rabbinic Judaism centered in synagogue worship, and a number of Christian movements which later coalesced into the Roman church.

As a rule, liberal denominations recognize the special relationship that Jews have with God, as defined in the many covenants in the Hebrew Scriptures. They do not attempt to convert them to Christianity; many find such attempts at conversion to be offensive.

Religious liberals also reject the concept of Biblical literacy, and view the Bible as written by a group of very human individuals, with limited knowledge, and a desire to promote their own theological beliefs and those of their religious tradition. The Gospels were not first-hand accounts; they were written in the last third of the 1st century by Christians who never knew Jesus personally. Liberal theologians study extra-canonical books in addition to the Christian Scriptures. The former are gospels, epistles and other early Christian writings that were never accepted into the Christian scriptures. The Gospel of Peter is one example. It contains a section which deals with the trial and execution of Jesus.

Theologians note that there are many conflicts among the gospels, starting at the point of Jesus' trial before the Sanhedrin. There are also conflicts between the gospels and Jewish practice: The Sanhedrin never met at night.
The idea that they would meet and discuss a capital murder case at the time of Passover is ludicrous.
It was not a Jewish religious offense for an individual to claim to be a Messiah.

One leading theologian, John Dominic Crossan, regards the trials before the Sanhedrin and Pilate as fictional events that never happened. Many of the events connected with Jesus' trial, death and resurrection are seen to be adaptations of passages from the Hebrew Scriptures. Much of the story is not derived from "history remembered" - accurate recollections of speeches and actions by the individuals involved. Some of it was Christian propaganda, which indicated the anger and friction being experienced between various Christian movements and Jewish religious leaders by the time that the gospels were being written. Some was a reflection of developing Christian tradition that was not present in the earliest years of Christianity. A lot of it was "prophecy historicized." This is the technique of taking prophetic passages from the Old Testament, spinning a story around them, and inserting them it into a gospel passage.

Crossan speculates that after Jesus attacked the moneychangers' tables in the Temple, he was arrested, and routinely executed. There was no group of Jewish leaders inflaming a mob of Jews, demanding that Barabbas be freed and that Jesus be crucified. Pilate would not have been involved; the affair would have been handled at a much lower level by a Roman army officer. There would have been standing orders to execute anyone found causing a major disturbance in Jerusalem near Passover.

The various negative portrayals of the Jews, such as the infamous cry "Let his blood be on us and on our children!" is simply fantasy. It never happened. It is simply Christian propaganda. The passages in the Gospels and Epistles which criticize Jews are primarily a reflection of the conflicts between the emerging Christian movement and the established Jewish traditions. Portraying Pilate as innocent of Jesus' death was a useful ploy, aimed at improving relationships between the various Christian traditions and the Roman empire.

As long as Christianity remained a struggling sect, a reform movement within Judaism, the anti-Judaic passages in the Christian Scriptures were of little importance. They were simply fairly typical examples of inter-faith squabbling.9 But when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late 4th century, these same verses developed a sinister character. Christianity was now in a position of power. The passages were used to create a theological justification for the persecution of the Jews. And the rest was history.

With no acceptance of responsibility by the Jewish leaders and public in Jesus' death, and with the execution handled solely by the Roman army garrison, there is no logical reason why 1st century Jews in Jerusalem should be blamed for the death of Jesus. And of course, there is no reason why their children should be assessed any responsibility in the act. Nor can any blame be assessed on the present-day Italians, many of whose ancestors were Romans.

posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 10:32 PM
The Roman Catholic Church's interpretation of Jesus' death and the current status of Judaism:
The Roman Catholic Church rejects the concepts that:

all of the Jews in Palestine circa 30 CE were responsible for the execution of Jesus;
any Jews now living are responsible for Jesus' death
God has now rejected the Jews because of the murder of Jesus.
On 1965-OCT-28, following the Vatican II meeting by the leaders of the church, the Vatican issued a "Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-Christian Religions." 10 Some important passages of the Declaration Nostra Aetate are: "The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in [non-Christian religions]."
"[The Church] also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people."
"Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this Sacred Synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as fraternal dialogues."
The Declaration notes that, according to the Gospels, some Jews in Palestine advocated for the execution of Jesus. But this guilt cannot be charged against all Jews of the 1st century, nor can it be charged against any Jews of today.
"Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures."
"...the Church...decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone."
"The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion."

In the Declaration, the Pope referred to Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism by name. He made no specific reference to the Church valuing other religions of the world, including North American spirituality, various Neopagan religions, other Aboriginal religions, etc. However, the general intent of the Declaration appears to include them. Additional material can be seen at Ref. 11.

There is a general consensus among conservative Christians that the 1st century Romans and leaders of the Jews in Judea were responsibility for Jesus' execution. Many liberals tend to assess blame on the Roman army alone. With the exception of a few fringe radical Christians groups, nobody holds present-day Jews responsible for Christ's death.

Edward Alexander, book review of "Christian Antisemitism," listed below. Reprinted from the Congress Monthly, Vol. 61, #1, (1994), American Jewish Congress. See "The Nizkor Project," at:
W. Nicholls, "Christian Antisemitism: A History of Hate," Jason Aronson, (1995). You can order this book from
D. Cohn-Sherbok, "The Crucified Jew: Twenty Centuries of Christian Anti-Semitism," Eerdmans, (1997). Order from
J. Rousmaniere, "A Bridge to Dialogue: The Story of Jewish-Christian Relations (Studies in Judaism and Christianity)," Paulist Press, (1992) Order from
"Saving our souls," The Southern Shofar, Birmingham, AL, at:
Arthur F. Glasser, "A Reflection on 'Let's Get Biblical!' Rabbi Tovia Singer's Lecture Series", Pages 2 & 3, at:
J.D. Crossan, "Who Killed Jesus: Exposing the roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus," Harper Collins, (1995) Order from
Raymond E.S.S. Brown, "The Death of the Messiah : From Gethsemane to the Grave: A Commentary on the Passion Narratives in the Four Gospels," Doubleday Books, (1994). Order from
Steve Schroeder, Review of J.D. Crossan's book, Booklist, American Library Association, 1995-MAR-1
Pope Paul, "Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions (Nostra Aetate)," 1965-OCT-28. Available at:
"Theology Library: Non-Christian Religions," at:
R.A. Ross, "Bigotry lurks in born-again Christian doctrine," Arizona Republic for 1982-NOV-6 at:

posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 11:32 PM
Are present day jews responsible for christ death?

Of course not. In the sense of they were not living back then in
his days.

Would todays jews reject christ and order his death if living back in christ day?

if they were faithful jews they would absolutely order his death
just like the jews back then.

thats what i mean by are they responsible for christ death.

Don't get me wrong, many jews will convert to christ once they see the miracles of christ, but alot of
(jews) today would infact order his death if he was alive today.

would they not?

do you know that the current jews would let him go and not order his death?

are you saying all current jews are lax in their faith?

The jewish (religion) rejects christ and are against him.

The belief and the hardness of hearts is what crucified christ.

They could not believe his miracles, his works, he new the law to perfection.

he was predicted by moses, isaiah, ect..

is it right to kill jews today because of christ death?

Of course not, our church does not teach this, the bible does not teach this, infact
some saints even offered to suffer pain for jews conversions.

There is a problem with the jewish belief because they reject the christ, that does not mean we should
kill or hate them, and instead should pray for them as christians.

(that) is what our church and god teaches, some take anger and judgement into their own hands and
they are heretics for doing so.

remember toltec, dont ask if the present day jews are responsible for christ death.

ask if present day jews would not do the same as the jews back then.

Alot of them would do the exact same thing.

God preaches love all creatures, pray for those who persicute you, pray for the conversion of sinners, and do
not in any case take gods wrath in your own hands.


[Edited on 3-2-2003 by Truth]

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 12:48 AM
Truth 150 years ago in this country If you owned land you had the right to a vote. 2000 years ago the right to make a decision was even more restricted.

If Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that was meant to be, how can you sit there and claim the Jews were responsible?

You see, Jesus was meant to die so he could come back to life (That is the point). Claiming that anyone is to blame for adhering to what the bible states was there fate, from a time before they were even born is a hypocrisy.

If you want to take the standpoint the Jesus was murdered then you are invalidating Gods plan. The biblical text is as well invalidated because it states the purpose and cause of death (our sins). God preformed a sacrifice he sacrificed his only son so that man may

Alternatively the sacrifice established life after death as a valid conclusion. If Jesus had slipped on some mud and cracked his skull and as a result died and came back to life. The prophecy would have been fulfilled but only in principal. In reality the bible is quite clear and in order for the prophecies to be fulfilled what happened had to happen. For all intent a purpose the issue becomes one of premeditation, specifically related to the fulfillment of prophecy. As a reuslt those alleged to have been present acted in response to Gods word and the mandate presented in biblical text.

What are your thoughts?

[Edited on 3-2-2003 by Toltec]

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 03:23 PM
Just stop, because you dont.

The reason why Jews dont believe in Christ is because christ didnt fulfil NONE OF THE PROPHECIES by Isaiah and Jeremiah, Ezekiel.


That's why. So dont sit here and say the jews dont beliebe in jesus for no reason because they have ALL the reason not to believe in him..

The Jews back then were so dedicated to their religions, most of them memorized the Torah by the time they turned 18... so when Jesus came along and didnt fulfil none of the prophecies THEY DIDNT BELIEVE.... he did miracles, so what????? the anti-christ will perform miracles.

christianity paved the way for hitler and his nazi movement is right... it did... because Christians persecuted both Jews and Muslims in Christendom Europe.

You see, Jesus was meant to die so he could come back to life (That is the point). Claiming that anyone is to blame for adhering to what the bible states was there fate, from a time before they were even born is a hypocrisy.

^ someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

And no, Jesus was not predicted by Moses and Isaiah as you say because Moses and Isaiah did not speak of a son of God because it was blasphemy.

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 06:21 PM
You are 100% wrong illmatic.

isaiah and moses did talk of jesus. Ive already proved that mohammed
was not mentioned in the Ot but youstill say he was.

the jews interpreted scripture wrong and thought the prophecies to be fullfilled
was that of a ruling saviour who would be a strong leader among the nations. they did not think
gd would be a poor man who suffered all his life.

Now you say that its blasphemy to talk about the son of god??

Thats funny considering the jews were awaiting a (messiah) who would infact
be (the son of god).

whos the messiah they were waiting illmatic?

is aa man a messiah?

is not god the messiah?

so how can talking about the saviour the son of god be blasphemy?

It cannot.

The jews thought the first coming should be the second coming, when infact their second coming
was the first coming to set up the new sacrafice and new covenant.

The real second coming will be the jews first coming and they will believe antichrist is god and you probably will too.

and he will order us to death.

Think what you will, but dont tell me i dont know anything when the words out of your mouth
are filled with hate and pride and you are a hypocrite even to allahs teachings.

WW2 was caused by an evil man whom killed catholics and protestants because he was a heretic to biblical teachings.


[Edited on 4-2-2003 by Truth]

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 06:36 PM
Judaism is a remarkable religion, it's so ancient that Christianity looks like a young ample girl
And Islam is just some baby crapping his diapers and throwing fits

no signature

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 06:54 PM
truth, if i were to see you in the streets i'd double slap you for that stupid post you just typed that had no credibility whatsoever.

isaiah and moses did talk of jesus. Ive already proved that mohammed
was not mentioned in the Ot but youstill say he was.

did i even mention mohammad on this thread? no.. thank you.

the jews interpreted scripture wrong and thought the prophecies to be fullfilled

yea, everything you say is right and everything we say is wrong... christians have interpreted the bible the correct way because they're the smartest people in the world.

Thats funny considering the jews were awaiting a (messiah) who would infact
be (the son of god).

when i thought you couldnt get any dumber you have proved me wrong again.. where does it say in the torah the messiah will be the SON of God... it says the chosen one, the annointed one, the blessed one... but it does not say the SON of God.... jews will never believe in a son of God and when their messiah comes they'll take him as the messiah... not the SON of God.

Think what you will, but dont tell me i dont know anything when the words out of your mouth
are filled with hate and pride and you are a hypocrite even to allahs teachings.

i'm a hypocrite? okay. sure , since when have you ever caught me as a spiritual man?

your the hypocrite because your so damn secluded into your own religion thinking your religion is the god honest truth you refuse to open your mind to other religions because your so damn close minded.

so dont say i'm a hyprocrite to Allah's teachings when you refuse to pick up a qur'an and read it because YOUR the one with the hate towards non-christians and YOUR the one with the pride and your so full of yourself and your so called perfect all knowing religion.

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 07:04 PM
where does it say the son of god cannot be god?

illmatic wrote.

"" if i saw you on the street id slap you ""

thats all the reader needed to know.

Your lack of grace is truly amazing.

while i pick up the koran, maybee yu should to because you break every rule set down by allah himself.

I dont hate muslims, i offer to suffer for them, their religion is false and i will
proclaim this until i die by stuff you just cannot understand.

I will never hate you either.

i will say no more.


[Edited on 4-2-2003 by Truth]

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 08:44 PM
because you havent said anything in the first place.

sorry i break the rules of Allah as you said it... i'm not an angel like you.

I dont hate muslims, i offer to suffer for them, their religion is false and i will
proclaim this until i die by stuff you just cannot understand.

why do you think i say what i say towards you? because of stupid ass remarks like that.

their religion is false and you have never read the qur'an and you never will.. your like every other american who gets their knowledge about islam from CNN and MSNBC... your pitiful

where does it say the son of god cannot be god?

and you say i dont understand? where does it say the son of god can be god? i'll become a crusader christian like you if you show me a verse in thE OLD TESTAMENT that speaks of a son of God.

"Hear O Israel, our G-d is ONE" -Moses

not two, not three... not a trinity... ONE.

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 08:47 PM
I get my knowledge of Islam through schools and books and I still don't like them.

They are too tribal a people...and too rigid a religion, American islams are toned down, but their Arab brethren are retarded.

As stupid as a mideival crusader, which is funny because during the crusades they were quite smart.

no signature

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 08:54 PM
I hope you mean the Muslims were smart during the crusades because the christians were retards.

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 08:57 PM
Yeah but it's all but reversed now...particularly in the arab cultures though, major reversal from civilization to tribal patriarchal society.

no signature

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 09:22 PM
Truth based on what information are you now claiming the anti-christ will be Jewish? Was it not a month or so ago you were insisting the Pope was the anti-christ???

Judaism is the origin of both the Moslem and Christian faith like what England is the United States and what the United States is to France.

As far as the Jewish people in relation to the Messiah keep in mind that God never presented himself to the Jewish people as a human being. One as a burning bush, often as a voice and in the case of Exodus as Death in the form of a spirit/mist in relation to the hand of God. Keep in mind that before Jesus died he toured all of Israel but after he died and ascended. No indication in the bible presents him doing the same thing.

You want to accept the fact that Jesus was the Son of God fine. But by your own words accepting that Jesus was the Son of God is not required. What is required is to lead a decent life showing reasonable respect for others and maintaining a good moral code.

Adolph Hitler used the same excuse that people have been using for millennia to kill Israelis. It was not his idea to present the Jewish people as killers of Christ. The Catholic Church presented it and there is sufficient evidence to prove it.

posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 10:38 PM
Did some checking truth you have been going on about the current Pope being the anti-christ scince you got here it a sort of calling card for you.

Whats going on here truth???

Antisemitism is racism truth what is your excuse???

posted on Feb, 4 2003 @ 08:03 AM
[I agree....and i read some time ago that romans actually were responsible for killing Jesus, and then they blame it all on Jews so they could spread their religion more easely....dont get me wrong i was raised as christian and my grandfather is jewis. so i think every religion must be respected.]

Originally posted by FreeMason
Judaism is a remarkable religion, it's so ancient that Christianity looks like a young ample girl
And Islam is just some baby crapping his diapers and throwing fits

no signature

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