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New Tobacco Tax

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posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Quite a simple question. The new tax increase on tobacco products is going to insurance for children and not to (and therefor for) any smoking related expense. Forgetting about the health concerns...the anti-smoking "cause" etc...

Is it legal for the government to raise taxes on tobacco (cigarettes) for the sole purpose of forcing people to quit?

Secondary question...if it is legal, then can't the government tax ANYTHING "they" don't like out of existence?




posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE

Is it legal for the government to raise taxes on tobacco (cigarettes) for the sole purpose of forcing people to quit?




It's legal all right, they just did it and so far I've yet to hear of one law suit to challenge it.

Plus it works. I smoked my last cigarette two weeks ago today. The only reason I quit is the brand I smoke went to seven dollars a pack. It's been a rough two weeks.



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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Every place around the South counties under dallas have already market it up. I saw a pack for a little over 8.00 which was expensive to begin with though.

But if you search and search you will find a place that will continue to sell your brand for the same price. I did. Just stickin it to the man!!

Wonder how much Obama pays for his cigarettes?



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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it is apparently legal, and at the risk of angering mods (sorry *tiptoes through taboo subject) it was done with the marijuana tax act in the early 20th century. it basically went like this: require a tax stamp to sell a product and then never issue a single tax stamp for said product.

but what coiuld they take away from us that they haven't already?



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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It seems as though smokers are always being targeted when there is an increase in taxes. Doesn't the government remember that our country would never have survived if not for the tobacco crop? This will be just one more industry that will collapse due to liberal thinkers.



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Why is this in the 9/11 forum?



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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Actually its very strange, the rise in tobacco taxes. The rise in the tax came from the SCHIP bill. The thinking was raise taxes on tobacco to fund the newly expanded SCHIP program, you know for the children and all. In order to fund the expanded form of the program they need 25 million new smokers a year.

Then in the stimulus bill there was some money allocated to help stop people smoking. So basically what they have done is raise taxes on tobacco to expand a program that "helps" the children and not to much later they passed a bill helping to kill this revenue by contributing money to help people stop smoking.

I'm still scratching my . at the logic of it all. Actually it is illegal for them to levy taxes that target specific individuals, much like they tried to do with the 90% tax proposal for bonuses at AIG.

The problem with doing the constitutional thing about this though is that because there are millions of smokers in the country they would just take the up the position of, there are millions of smokers in the country. Instead of the logical, sensible and constitutional argument that you are taxing a specific individuals.

The provision in the constitution is in Article 1 section 9. It comes right after the, "No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

Article 1 section 9 of the US Constitution



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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What happened to "No New Taxes on people that earn under 250k a year".
Except for smokers.
Very soon to be except for drinkers.
How long until except for people that eat more than the recommended daily allowance of food, people that own more than 1 car, people that own more than 1 house, how much longer till except for families with more than one child?

It is well within the means of Obama, and many other agency .s, to ban tobacco products as the health hazard that they are willing to proclaim loudly.
But when push comes to shove, they all just want a bigger slice of the addiction pie.

Y'all can keep your "change" of trillions of corporate welfare, shell games with the military---moving out of one country, increasing the number of soldiers, and moving them to another country, and numerous "incidental" tax increases.

You ready to pay your carbon tax for breathing yet?



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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You would think that logic (and wishfully a law) would require any specific product or "group" (smokers being this group) tax be used solely for covering expenses incurred due to the product or group. For example, I really couldn't argue if the government health care cost has risen by 1 million due to smoking, divide that by the number of smokers etc. and there is the tax. But to impose and then rely on a baseless tax for the purpose of supporting some other want or need (to me) is stupid.

What would happen if everyone said "ok...I quit". Where will the money come from then? I know these are obvious questions...guess I'm just venting. But worse. So...keep cigarettes legal but tax the heck out of them so no one can afford them. Then what? Abortion? Alcohol? Voting? Porn? You want to raise my health insurance...fine.

Forcing me, my group...and only me and my group to pay for increased expenses for uninsured kids (as valid as that expense is)...should be criminal. What a low-down, dirty way to impose "your" will and control upon a specific, targeted group of people. Isn't that prejudice and biased? And to so drastically raise this tax in a time where the majority of the group is hurting due to the economy...isn't that kicking a guy when he is down. And this is how our government works?

I guess the saddest part is that while "We the people" sit back and say "ohh...its only the smokers...I don't care", eventually it will include everybody either because all the smokers quit or "We the people" are finally part of some other targeted group. Yet the majority of people sit back and say..."as long as it isn't me...who cares". That mentallity will eventually bite everyone in the butt.

What a sad, pathetic state this country has entered.



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Why is this in the 9/11 forum?


Ooops. Me screwing up again. Didn't realize I was in the wrong place. Sorry.



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Forget the tea party we should be having a tobacco party!

I'm so sick of them justifying new taxes by using the label of sin tax.

I personally would like to see churches taxed, we could put that money to good work.



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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In Kansas the Witch Sebelus on her way out the door, slapped another one dollar a pack to match the dollar added from the Feds.

34 dollars a carton to 54 in one month.

In NY they said over 100 dollars a carton.

These prices are dangerous and unconstitutional.

If you have a carton in your car for 100 bucks, I am sure crime will go up.

I know if you want to "Bum" one from me, forget it.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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Wondering why it hasn't been moved yet.

It's day 36 for me since I've had a cigarette, and day 43 for my wife. She is only 42 years old, but her doctor told her that she may be on oxygen in 5 years if she didn't stop smoking, so I finished the cigarettes we had, and we're both tobacco free now.

I still want one no and then, but it really hasn't been too bad. Too bad the government feels like it has to tax the less well to do. Say what you will, but it's the less "rich" people that make up the vast majority of smokers.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by j2000
In Kansas the Witch Sebelus on her way out the door, slapped another one dollar a pack to match the dollar added from the Feds.

34 dollars a carton to 54 in one month.

In NY they said over 100 dollars a carton.

These prices are dangerous and unconstitutional.

If you have a carton in your car for 100 bucks, I am sure crime will go up.

I know if you want to "Bum" one from me, forget it.



You make it sound like cigarettes are an essential of life. Sorry, but they aren't. In canada we've been paying 10$ a pack for several years thats because our government pays for all our healthcare, thus they have a real motivation to WANT us to be healthy and quit smoking. Your government just wants to make more money off you.

I smoked for 5 years, its a terrible habit and ultimately does absolutely nothing for you. Not to mention that, everything you've been told about cigarettes is outright fabrication and disinfo placed by tabacco companies to hold you as a client.


Couple Myths:
- Nicotine is worse than Heroin (as far as addiction): Absolutely 100% false, the average nicotine craving is less than a minute and a half, get through that and you're fine for awhile. Heroin has cravings that can last hours, and physical withdrawl occurs in 100% of people that are detoxing, this is not the case with tobacco.

- Smoking relaxes you: Another completely ridiculous claim. Because of the nicotine you are at a heightened level of stress, so ontop of the genuine stress you are experiencing you also have the stress of your body wanting the nicotine. This can and does increase your stress levels. Once you have a smoke, you are not relieving the initial stress, just the stress of the nicotine withdrawl.

Theres more, but these are examples of the seeds the companies plant in their customers . so that they believe that quiting is futile. It isn't and it will improve your life, quit waiting for the right time cause you will NEVER find the 'right' time to quit. There's always that next event that you need to get through that will be 'extra' stressful.

I know the stress myth is completely false because I experienced a much better ability to control stress after quitting. Those situations in traffic or whatever normally wound me right up, was laughable now that I wasn't stressing about my nicotine addiction. Don't get me wrong though, quitting is not always the easiest but it is highly rewarding.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Thanks Obama, the crime rate in my neighborhood will surely increase and now its like stealing and robbing for crack money but its cigs, which mind you are addictive. guess i need to buy even more shotgun shells as the home invasion has already increased lately.



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


I don't think it's legal. But they're doing anything they want to do now days now aren't they?

I quit smoking when a pack of Marlboros went from $1 to $1.25 because I thought that the quarter jump in price was ridiculous and could vagely see the writing on the wall. Now people have to pay over 6 bucks a pack. It's all just pathetic in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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More control and social engineering. unconstitutional taxation and such. More pushy, nosy control freaks pushing their way and sticking their noses in people's lives and personal choices.

I do not care how bad smoking is for your health. My mother and grandmother died from it But they both chose to smoke, and did not give it up even when they got sick. People have a right to choose how they live, what they do with their bodies and lives. if we actually had socialized medicine, then yes, you could say taxing smokers to cover increased health costs is just. And there are some people who do have social security or medicare covering their medical.

But most don't. We have PRIVATE healthcare, and last time I checked, people pay with private insurance, out of pocket costs, or end up with massive debt that just gets taken out of their estate anyway.

It's both the government and health fascists trying to push people around and decide what's best for them. Nanny state bs.



posted on Apr, 7 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by dangov8
It seems as though smokers are always being targeted when there is an increase in taxes. Doesn't the government remember that our country would never have survived if not for the tobacco crop? This will be just one more industry that will collapse due to liberal thinkers.


Good point dude.

I can't stand being targeted for being a smoker.

There is so much money involved, everyone wants a piece of it. Including politcs. Big business in poilitics.........with their pompous liberal stink...pretty soon every time you eat a ham & cheese sanguich, you'll get taxed for mayo.


[edit on 7-4-2009 by Ben Niceknowinya]



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