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Why host Fictional stories on ATS, instead of BTS?

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posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Terapin
Artists on ATS are destined to be segregated from each other, and thus marginalized. Creative writing has been on ATS for many years now and until this thread, no one has ever discussed the idea of including member art for illustrations. That is what happens when Artists are segregated from each other. Tunnel vision.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I was going to stay out of this, but...

As an artist myself, I feel I must address this point.

The seperation of various creative forums, such as Short Stories (non-writer posts) from Collaborative Writing (writers only) on ATS or Member Art and Literature on BTS is no hurdle whatsoever. There is also the seperation of Media from ATS/BTS. It just doesn't matter because they are all part of a coherent entity.

Pigeon holes.

No matter where artists normally roost, they can easily fly from one location to the other. What could possibly stop someone talented in the creative arts from applying their talents anywhere on these boards?

Only this morning, I had a U2U from a member who offered their artwork for use by the role players in the space opera collaboration.

It's all about our members and not the forums where they choose to display their efforts.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 08:40 AM
reply to post by Terapin

Originally posted by Terapin
I never stated that Art diminished the credibility of ATS in any way. You missed my point.

Well, I certainly did miss your point. You are all over the map on this thread:

Originally posted by Terapin
While it is all fine and dandy to engage in collaborative writing...I pause to wonder why it is even found here on ATS.


Mind you, I am not bashing the idea, just the appropriateness of fictional writings on ATS. On a web site dedicated to uncovering the truth and separating it from fiction, it seems inappropriate to be hosting deliberate fictions and presenting it alongside the search for truth.

Originally posted by Terapin
I chose to use "Deliberate False Stories" because there is indeed a problem with Hoaxes on ATS. It is fairly clear than no one will mistake "collaborative writing" for any attempt at truth, when it is in the forum title.


Originally posted by Terapin
That is what happens when Artists are segregated from each other. Tunnel vision.

Is that where you finally landed? Concern for the collaborative efforts between artists?

[edit on 30-3-2009 by loam]

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 08:46 AM

Originally posted by masqua

It's all about our members and not the forums where they choose to display their efforts.

They why move ANY thread into BTS? Why have an area labeled as Arts and Entertainment, that includes literature, if it is not going to be inclusive of member creative fictional material?

I understand that being creative is a good thing. It is how I make my living after all. It just seems illogical to on one hand create an Arts and Entertainment area and not use it as such, and on the other hand to state that members can post whatever they want, where ever they want. How does that fit into other posts getting moved to BTS when someone feels it doesn't fit into the category it was started in on ATS?

I am glad that you are getting U2Us from member artists for interdisciplinary collaborations. Perhaps my mentioning the idea in this thread has sparked some interest. Perhaps if visual artists and writers had been in the same gallery all along, this would have happened long ago. Perhaps Arts and Entertainment should be moved to ATS so they can enjoy the same level of status.

( just so someone doesn't get the wrong Idea.... I am not a visual artist who feels excluded)

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 09:04 AM
reply to post by loam

Loam, how about we discuss the subject instead of your simply dissecting posts. Anyone can dissect posts, but it doesn't add to the discussion.

I stand by my initial statement that I wonder why CW is on ATS. BTS was created for just such topics. ATS is promoted as a conspiracy web site. It is the first hit on Google when you search for conspiracy web sites. The home banner indicates that ATS is the main web site for "Alternative" topics and they self describe the site as a "discussion board" community. My concern is, and has always been, placing content in the appropriate section. That has not changed. Since you have stated that you do not care where CW is placed, I am unsure why you seem to delight in attacking my posts rather than discuss the subject.

Do you feel that General Discussion forums, or Arts and Entertainment, is a better description of Collaborative Writing? It is that simple.

Creative writing is indeed Art, and in CW there is little general discussion. Or do you disagree that creative writing is Art?

Would it be appropriate to place a discussion about a recent UFO siting in China, in a forum dedicated to Middle East issues?

I never advocated terminating collaborative writing. Simply placing it in it's proper category.

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 09:15 AM
reply to post by Terapin

Originally posted by Terapin
Loam, how about we discuss the subject instead of your simply dissecting posts. Anyone can dissect posts, but it doesn't add to the discussion.

There you go again, telling me I can't address your words.

I'm done here.

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 10:05 AM
reply to post by loam

I never said that you can not address my words, I simply asked for input on the subject matter at hand, and not simply attacking my posts. That is what ATS is supposed to be all about, open discussion of the subject. Why host CW on ATS, not BTS.

You choose not to discuss this, and then run away when asked to. How is that discussion? I have tried to engage you in the subject by asking for your comments on specific questions related to the subject. I would still enjoy hearing your opinions, unless they are going to be flippant, which does not add to the discussion.

You have stated that you think 90% of what is in ATS is likely fiction. Some might disagree, particularly in the News, Politics, Military Weapons, Science, and other forums.
You expressed the opinion that you do not care where CW is located, either in ATS or BTS. It seems that you have spent much of the rest of your time in this thread focusing on my words, rather than the subject. When I asked you a very simple question, you chose to run off, rather than to educate us with your answer.

Seriously, do you feel that CW is better described by General Discussion, or Arts and Entertainment? Is that such a difficult thing to ask?

[edit on 30/3/09 by Terapin]

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 10:23 AM
I opted out of this thread for awhile, being a writer and all, but seriously this discussion has gone way beyond productive.

I don't think it matters where the forum is, as it is a sub-forum so to speak.
We are all intelligent enough to know fact from fiction especially in a forum labeled as such and in my opinion, if it ain't broke..don't fix it.
Terapin, don't get me wrong..I do see where you are coming from.
However..I think there is more fiction posted in the hardcore forums than in the short stories.
just sayin"

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 01:50 PM
reply to post by AccessDenied

I agree there is a certain amount of fiction in several of the forums. People will believe in what they choose to, alien civilizations on Mars and such.

I was just commenting on the ATS/BTS double standard. That there is a double standard is quite clear. I have seen threads moved over to BTS simply because it did not fit into a conspiratorial or alternative topic, while fiction stays put.

I wonder if anyone asked the Visual artists if they wanted to be put into BTS instead of ATS? Perhaps just like the writers desire, visual artists might want greater exposure on ATS. Most every member use visual arts, as they have Avatars, and many have custom banners as well.

I wish the ATS stats could show how many non participants in Collaborative Writing actually visit the threads. We could learn something from such information. As I mentioned earlier Visual artists rank much higher in the stats than CW does. The double standard keeps them over in BTS, despite the greater interest of community members.

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 02:05 PM
I actually visit the creative forums on BTS much more than those on ATS. I contributed my artwork to BTS and to the Wiki, but only one short story on ATS.

*shrug* Don't know if that helps any.

posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 04:36 PM
reply to post by Terapin

You are right, I completely missed your point.

The way your OP read to me, I thought your issue was with why we would have fictional writing on the site at all, now I see your issue is with where its hosted...

If I remember right the Collaborative Fiction Forum pre-dates BTS and the "Arts/Entertainment" section therein and that's pretty much all there is to it, it's exactly where it's been since we created it.

With all the other projects, keeping our company alive through this economic melt down on top of the day to day management tasks that only three of us handle, we've been too busy to even think about it.

To be honest until this thread, I certainly haven't ever thought about it.

In any case, you do have a good point and it does make sense that Collaborative Fiction should be hosted within the "Arts/Entertainment" section. If and when we get a break in the action we may actually be able get to detail items like that and correct it.


posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 04:46 PM
reply to post by Springer

It is easy to misunderstand posts, and I am glad that you now see that I was simply trying to correctly index the data for two reasons. It would be easier to find in an Arts and Entertainment Forum, and it would put other member artists alongside them. BTS is a great place and I think by adding Creative Writing to its fold, next to Literature and Member Art, it might help to draw more attention to all it has to offer.

There is no need to move with haste on the matter as I am very certain that there are far more important and pressing things to do on ATS. Discussing the matter is a good thing and I always appreciate the efforts of the Three Amigos, the staff, and the moderators. It is after all, the above group that have made ATS a thriving community.

We all know how other websites turn into slugfests with little mutual respect. It is the ATS establishment that has allowed the formation of a positive and progressive community.

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