Obama - We don't want outsourced jobs back????

So what's he talking about????

In one of recent Online Townhall Meetings Obama said the following when asked about when outsourced jobs would be coming back to the US..

MSN India - Return of outsourced jobs not good for US: Obama

"Not all of these jobs are going to come back," he told a questioner during an "Online Townhall" from the White House who asked when would jobs outsourced to other countries come back and be made available to the unemployed workers in the US.

"And it probably wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come back because, frankly, there's no way that people could be getting paid a living wage on some of these jobs - at least in order to be competitive in an international setting."

He went on to say....

"our economy - if it's dependent on low-wage, low-skill labour, it's very hard to hang on to those jobs because there's always a country out there that pays lower wages than the US.

"And so we've got to go after the high-skill, high-wage jobs of the future," he said. "That's why it's so important to train our folks more effectively and that's why it's so important for us to find new industries - building solar panels or wind turbines or the new biofuel -that involve these higher-value, higher-skill, higher-paying jobs.

"So what we've got to do is create new jobs that can't be outsourced," Obama said.

Now then - the company I work for laid off some 5000 last week. Its a fortune 500 high tech company. I knew quite a few that were laid off, among them were software designers, architects, dba's, but also some R&D type folks. Of those I know that got the boot, the lowest level of education was a 4year college degree and the highest a PhD. Several of them having been with the company 20 to 30 years. By in large they were all highly skilled and well versed in the latest tech. In other words, the did not fit with the low-skilled, low-pay work Obama mentions at all. Many were working on the leading edge things in their field.

However, many of those jobs are now going to be filled in India. Why pay a PhD. here 100,000 when you can pay one in India 25,000?

So I ask you - what kind of jobs is he really talking about? Yes, I know he said buidling solar panels, wind turbines etc. But, those could just as easily be built overseas and shipped here. I can't see how those jobs could be protected from outsourcing?

Does he just not understand that its not just low-skill, low-wage jobs that are being lost but also high-skill, high-pay jobs that are being lost daily as well?

You can't really outsource the person that frys you a burger at McDonald's - could he possibly mean jobs like that as the ones we want? I'm not sure what kind of jobs he could mean...

I'm honestly not sure what to think. Is he just blowing hot air in the above, does he really not understand or am I missing something?

As a bit of a PS - kind of interesting that most of the news covering this is from Indian news sites, very little mention of it in US MSM.



[edit on 28-3-2009 by Frogs]

What he is saying is correct. People may be out of work but many of them are getting paid unemployment. We are spoiled in the US that we should make a minimum wage of X for any job we do and we also will only pay a certain amount of money for goods. Now if you wanted to either take the pay number and lower it or you wanted to take the price of goods and raise it then it works out fine.

The problem is most people won't take a job they don't want right now despite the fact they could be losing their homes. Example: My company is hiring door to door sales people and the average target income is mid 50k's for this job with most making around 75K and some making well into the 6 figures. We put out ads in the paper and all types of places yet we still won't get a huge turn out because of the type of job. This is a top company in the US with full benefits offering a job for well over the median income level.

In the future as the social programs start to fail I can see wanting just about any job they can find yet they still wont have them available because we would need to agree on lowering minimum wage to be competitive.

As far as high dollar jobs being lost over seas that still is because of the price of good vs what we are willing to pay the people doing the work.

So I agree with him on this currently.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by whoshotJR]

I bet people cheered at Obama's response like trained seals

Originally posted by whoshotJR
What he is saying is correct. People may be out of work but many of them are getting paid unemployment. We are spoiled in the US that we should make a minimum wage of X for any job we do and we also will only pay a certain amount of money for goods. Now if you wanted to either take the pay number and lower it or you wanted to take the price of goods and raise it then it works out fine.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by whoshotJR]

Are you serious? Even with minimum wage, people can't survive. $7/hr x 40 hrs a week = 280 - 65 taxes = 215 per week. x 4 weeks = 860. Rent in most places ,even for crappy hovel, is 500-600 a month. That leaves 260 a month. Minus 150 for food. That leaves 110. Minus 75 for electric bill. That leaves 35. Minus 100 for gas a month That leaves -(65). And you think either raising prices or lowering wages will help! WAKE UP!

What Obama said is a CROCK.... Many high tech jobs are being out-sourced with people coming here on visas. Its all bull# we need those jobs here. I'm sick to death of all this mental masturbation, from our so called politicians. I'm sorry but you have to put the citizens of this country first. TOUGH TIMES CALL FOR TOUGH DECISIONS. Is It not our tax dollars bailing out these distressed company's? They keep giving this country away like its a k-mart blue light special. (WAKE UP PEOPLE)

[edit on 28-3-2009 by drummerroy39]

[edit on 28-3-2009 by drummerroy39]

[edit on 28-3-2009 by drummerroy39]

Originally posted by ohioriver

Originally posted by whoshotJR
What he is saying is correct. People may be out of work but many of them are getting paid unemployment. We are spoiled in the US that we should make a minimum wage of X for any job we do and we also will only pay a certain amount of money for goods. Now if you wanted to either take the pay number and lower it or you wanted to take the price of goods and raise it then it works out fine.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by whoshotJR]

Are you serious? Even with minimum wage, people can't survive. $7/hr x 40 hrs a week = 280 - 65 taxes = 215 per week. x 4 weeks = 860. Rent in most places ,even for crappy hovel, is 500-600 a month. That leaves 260 a month. Minus 150 for food. That leaves 110. Minus 75 for electric bill. That leaves 35. Minus 100 for gas a month That leaves -(65). And you think either raising prices or lowering wages will help! WAKE UP!

So maybe you missed where I said either the wage or the goods would need to change. The goods is not just for that certain product it has to do with the price of all goods and services. If everyone makes more money then people are charged more money for the things you have listed above. In the countries that the jobs are getting sent to do they not need the same things to live? In many places they don't even make close to the amount you just listed yet they survive. The situation you listed above shows only 1 person, if you can't afford a place to live on your own wouldn't you then find somebody to live with? Now you have an extra 250-300 dollars left over and that's not taking into account the other ways the could save money like the electricity and gas. If I needed more money I would also look for a 2nd low wage job.

Your post just helps prove my point that we are not currently at a point where people will find it a priority to really change how they look at life or live. Maybe you should travel a bit more and see places that are a really poverty stricken and then you and I can each wake up to their reality.

Every country that out sources jobs is neglecting their citizens.

Governments have an obligation to ensure sound economy, infrastructure and a future for citizens.

People have a right and need to work and sending jobs offshore degrades that right to a comfortable lifestyle and the means necessary to provide for dependents (family).

I wish my government would pass legislation to stop companies from outsourcing, I also would like to see less importing of shoddy goods made in sweatshops because it is cheaper.

In Australia, we export the materials to be used in sweatshops to make the item then we import it back maybe I am stupid but this surely undermines employment growth, which in tunr leads to mortgage stress, foreclosures and homelessness.

Many of our call centres have been outsourced to places like India and Singapore and half the time when you call there you can not even understand the call centre officer due to accent and language barriers.

Our governments should really be ashamed of themselves.

res

Originally posted by whoshotJR

As far as high dollar jobs being lost over seas that still is because of the price of good vs what we are willing to pay the people doing the work.

So I agree with him on this currently.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by whoshotJR]

Hmmm... so lets put some numbers to that.

In 2008 the average Indian IT worker earned US$12,910 in 2008 from the article and link below.

ZDNet Asia - India's tech growth fuels better pay

According to the ZDNet Asia survey, the average annual IT salary in India was 554,075 rupees (US$12,910).

Now for the US figure from 2008

Wall Street Journal

The average information-technology pro made $78,035 last year, a 4.6% increase from 2007,

So in 2008 the average Indian IT worker made 12,910 and the average US worker made 78,035.

So are you saying the US pay for that job needs to fall by $65125 to equal what the market is willing to bear?

Of course, that would mean the cost of college would have to fall quite a bit. Parents making 12k couldn't really afford to send their kids to college (so the kids could get a well paid 12k a year job) at the current cost of education.

Of course, that would also effect the salary of teachers, and well - most everyone else - and would mean the costs of everything would have to fall very sharply - or the standard of living go way way way down.

Is the US really ready - and willing to accept $12k a year for IT job that requires a 4year college degree? Is that what you are saying?

He is selling everybody a dream.

There is no way possible that the solar and wind farm industries are going to be big enough to employ 10's of millions of people. It just isn't possible.

What we need to do is get rid of the insane 35% business taxes and become more wealth friendly and jobs will flood back to America.

Originally posted by resistancia
Every country that out sources jobs is neglecting their citizens.

Governments have an obligation to ensure sound economy, infrastructure and a future for citizens.

People have a right and need to work and sending jobs offshore degrades that right to a comfortable lifestyle and the means necessary to provide for dependents (family).

I wish my government would pass legislation to stop companies from outsourcing, I also would like to see less importing of shoddy goods made in sweatshops because it is cheaper.

In Australia, we export the materials to be used in sweatshops to make the item then we import it back

maybe I am stupid but this surely undermines employment growth, which in tunr leads to mortgage stress, foreclosures and homelessness.

Many of our call centres have been outsourced to places like India and Singapore and half the time when you call there you can not even understand the call centre officer due to accent and language barriers.

Our governments should really be ashamed of themselves.

res

Why is this the governments problem? Blame the people like yourself and me who buy products from companies that outsource. If you don't like it then stop giving them money and talk to people you know about doing the same.

If you don't like the call centers in India then complain to the companies and don't give them business.

But know that by doing this you will probably be paying a higher dollar for these same services and goods from people that do everything in your country or even locally. Why do you think companies like Walmart can come in and push all the little places out of business? It's not Walmart that makes them go under its the people that stop shopping at original local place of business. Why do they stop shopping there? Because of price normally and a larger available overhead of products.

Don't blame governments or really even the companies. Blame yourself and your neighbors who have created the markets to work the way they do and continue to purchase these goods.

reply to post by Frogs


Actually that's half of what I'm saying. The other way is for people to pay more for the products they are buying to keep wages higher.

You can't have low prices on everything and High wages because it doesn't work out. You also need to look at more then just 1 job function within a sector or company. Maybe we don't have CEO's making 300-600 times what their average workers salary is and that could also help bring the price of goods made locally to a reasonable level. The problem again is we continue to say its ok by buying from these companies so why would they change?

Its funny how people are bringing up very socialist ideas in here and also blaming Obama. These would be the same people blaming him for having such "socialist" ideas.

I guess flip flopping isn't just for politicians?

Originally posted by whoshotJR

Originally posted by ohioriver

Originally posted by whoshotJR
What he is saying is correct. People may be out of work but many of them are getting paid unemployment. We are spoiled in the US that we should make a minimum wage of X for any job we do and we also will only pay a certain amount of money for goods. Now if you wanted to either take the pay number and lower it or you wanted to take the price of goods and raise it then it works out fine.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by whoshotJR]

Are you serious? Even with minimum wage, people can't survive. $7/hr x 40 hrs a week = 280 - 65 taxes = 215 per week. x 4 weeks = 860. Rent in most places ,even for crappy hovel, is 500-600 a month. That leaves 260 a month. Minus 150 for food. That leaves 110. Minus 75 for electric bill. That leaves 35. Minus 100 for gas a month That leaves -(65). And you think either raising prices or lowering wages will help! WAKE UP!

So maybe you missed where I said either the wage or the goods would need to change. The goods is not just for that certain product it has to do with the price of all goods and services. If everyone makes more money then people are charged more money for the things you have listed above. In the countries that the jobs are getting sent to do they not need the same things to live? In many places they don't even make close to the amount you just listed yet they survive. The situation you listed above shows only 1 person, if you can't afford a place to live on your own wouldn't you then find somebody to live with? Now you have an extra 250-300 dollars left over and that's not taking into account the other ways the could save money like the electricity and gas. If I needed more money I would also look for a 2nd low wage job.

Your post just helps prove my point that we are not currently at a point where people will find it a priority to really change how they look at life or live. Maybe you should travel a bit more and see places that are a really poverty stricken and then you and I can each wake up to their reality.

Let me put this in simpler terms:


Say you make $1 a day. A loaf of bread is 85 cents. That leaves you 15 cent

Now lower wage to 85 cents and the price of bread is lowered to 70 cents. You still have 15 cents.

How will this theory help anyone? It doesn't matter if you raise wages cause food will raise as well. If you lower wages , the food will lower as well. But either way it stays stagnant. So basically, you are saying we just need to work harder? HAHAHAHAH.(Sorry) Yes they make less in other countries but then everything is also cheaper in most of them.

reply to post by ohioriver


Again you prove my point.

"Yes they make less in other countries but then everything is also cheaper in most of them."

By saying somebody couldn't survive on minimum wage I guess you just have a different definition then I do of survive. Its like learning the difference between a need and a want. So yes I'm saying we should just work harder and stop complaining or actually change the way we live and force the companies to make the changes also by not buying from them. How do you think you can go to Wendy's and buy a cheese burger for .99 cents? Don't you think there is more then 1 dollars worth of labor and goods if it was your labor into that cheeseburger?

Originally posted by whoshotJR
reply to post by ohioriver

 

Again you prove my point.

"Yes they make less in other countries but then everything is also cheaper in most of them."

By saying somebody couldn't survive on minimum wage I guess you just have a different definition then I do of survive. Its like learning the difference between a need and a want. So yes I'm saying we should just work harder and stop complaining or actually change the way we live and force the companies to make the changes also by not buying from them. How do you think you can go to Wendy's and buy a cheese burger for .99 cents? Don't you think there is more then 1 dollars worth of labor and goods if it was your labor into that cheeseburger?

1. I don't eat fast food poison!
2. Need = Food, shelter, transportation, warmth.
3. Stop being a troll for Obama.

On top of the other necessities I listed you can also tack on car insurance,water, heating, trash bill, medical care, laundry. So are all those things wants as well? Good idea, get a second job but what if a couple has children? Child care then eats up all those "extra" profits. We have people eating out of dumpsters here in America and you want them to stop complaining about sending the higher paying jobs overseas?!!!!! Get real .

Businesses that move overseas or outsource jobs overseas do it for financial reasons. The countries these jobs move to - like India - do not force the companies to pay unemployment insurance, liability insurance, health coverage benefits or taxes like the US does.

It will take a major paradigm shift here in the US for things to change, a good start would be to eliminate Federal Income Tax and go to the Fair Tax.

Also it would be necessary to convince the judicial system to stop giving ear to frivolous law suits, we would need changes in the Unemployment Insurance system as well as the health care system.

But those things are not going to change to a new system that works all at once.

Until we find a way to make it more fiscally desirable for companies to stay in (and return jobs to) the US, we will continue to bleed off the jobs to other countries.

Sad but true

reply to post by Frogs


Frog

I am with you. Let me ask you, what are the major expenses that a corporation pays to or on behalf of their employees. I think, you will agree that the biggest cost are wages including benefits and taxes. So it is very easy for corporations to attack wages and benefits to reduce their cost. You try to talk about taxes and it is like hitting your head against the wall. According to an article a family of 4 pays 64% in taxes considering all ripple effects. Let us assume that it cost $100/00 for an American to live. That American has to make $ 164/00 before he is able to spend $ 100/00 Americans are working twice as hard if not harder than the People in India or china. Compare the cost of Indians or Chinese in their respective countries in reference to Medical Coverage which is free. They don't pay taxes on their homes. They don't pay taxes for the education of their kids. Their utilities cost fraction of what we pay here in USA. I can go on and on.
In summation I can tell you that the problem is the Government and their endless greed. In India and china, the cost of a head of the country is less than the Mayor of a major City here in USA. They are all crooks speak with a fork in their mouth. The reality is that the cost of a product is so high that US corporation cannot sell their products in other countries. But the Politicians will not give up their luxury. It has to be at the cost of middle class. Regardless which way you look at it, things will never turn around in USA unless the government is serious about it. i.e. Socialise medicine, Mass Public transportation and any service and need common to all Americans should be paid by Tax dollars to work for the common cause of Americans. Privitization will never muster it. It is a con game that the government is playing with masses and American Public. This is the back door for Politicians and Mafia to get in the big businesses. I tell you, if you abolish US Postal service, I can guarantee you the rates will almost double overnight. The only solution I can see is a bloody revolution in this country. For me, I cannot convince my family to leave USA because it is home. I tried to give you a big picture in simple examples. I am holder of two Bachelor degrees with 40 years experience on my back as Engineer and Electrician and I cannot find a job of $ 40,000 with descent benefits. It all started from President Reagan's time. who worked for Bilderburg (the secret society you all know about).

reply to post by redhatty


All good points. In reality, there aren't that many jobs that can't be outsourced. The only ones I can think of are ones that require in person contact. Cops, doctors, taxi & bus drivers, wait staff etc. Basically if you are just making something that will be delivered / used (be it something phyiscal like clothes, a car, software, etc or even a service like a call center, bill processing, etc) all of that could potentially be outsourced for cheaper.

Sure, quality may very well take a hit - but the company will make money and people will still buy it.

I guess what I'm getting it - the crux of my delimia if you will is this..

Company says "It can be done cheaper abroad. Let's fire these US workers and move everything we can overseas."

Ok - fair enough. Cheap goods and services come into the US.

But, if the trend continues - will the masses still have enough spare cash to buy them?

If its not changed will it basically lead to a global equalization of sorts where in some countires the standard of living will go up quite a bit and in others it will fall by a signifcant amount?

reply to post by Frogs


Frogs I don't know what to think anymore, it is so frustrating, why doesn't he ask US what we want?

Our town is desperate for jobs other then fast food,

We need blue collar jobs,

Is our government that out of touch with the rest of us?

I don't know what it is going to take.

To be in the competition again, we need to put an end to globalisation by putting tariffs on foreign goods like back when Jefferson was president and put tariff on British exports because it bankrupted american industry.

If we don't go this way, we need to bring down the universities cost down to reasonable levels so we can have PHD for more people, cheap and competitive. We need to invest in high-tech research not in bailouts and military.

For blue colars, we need to go back to independance from the world. That way we'll have plenty of blue colars jobs in farming, ect... to rebuild america 1940s style.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by whoshotJR
reply to post by Frogs

 

Actually that's half of what I'm saying. The other way is for people to pay more for the products they are buying to keep wages higher.

You can't have low prices on everything and High wages because it doesn't work out. You also need to look at more then just 1 job function within a sector or company. Maybe we don't have CEO's making 300-600 times what their average workers salary is and that could also help bring the price of goods made locally to a reasonable level. The problem again is we continue to say its ok by buying from these companies so why would they change?

Its funny how people are bringing up very socialist ideas in here and also blaming Obama. These would be the same people blaming him for having such "socialist" ideas.

I guess flip flopping isn't just for politicians?

Well -I'd actually rather pay more for some things and get something of some quality than I would pay a cheap price and get junk. For example, I'd rather buy a $300 lawnmower that will last 10 years than a $100 lawnmower that will be on the junk heap in a year. I never said I wanted low prices on everything. I'd rather pay a little more and get something that isn't going to fall apart soon after I take it home, or food that won't make me sick or toys that won't posion my kids.

Heh - but I know not everyone is like me.

When I have a choice I don't support companies that outsource. But, the choice isn't always there for some things.

I do agree that the CEO salaries are generally obscene here in the US. The outsourcing actually makes it worse. CEO says "I saved the company 3 tons of money by outsourcing!!!' I need 1 ton of money as a bonus!!"

In addition it eventually hurts US companies doing business in the US.

Consider a simple example. I buy apples from farmer Jones for $3. I make apple cider and farmer Jones always buys a jug for $5. Now I find I can buy apples for $1 from farmer Pedro in another country. So, I buy those and sell my cider for $4 a jug. But since farmer Jones no longer has a market for his apples - he can't afford to buy my cider and since I only pay farmer Pedro $1 - he can't afford it either so I sell it to Mr. Fritz in yet another country and I've made $3 instead of $2 on my jug of cider and everyone is happy?

Well, me and Mr. Fritz are - he has cider and I have money. Farmer Pedro is because he now has a market for his apples. Farmer Jones....hmmm..seems he's left out in all of this. He probably isn't happy. But what's he do to? By the time he buys his fertilizer, pays his taxes, etc he can't really sell his apples for any less than $2 and still feed his family. He can't really lower his cost because his taxes aren't getting any lower, and he's already buying the lowest cost fertilizer he can. Does he just go on welfare and unemployment until taxes and fertilizer prices decrease enough that he can afford to sell apples for $1?





[edit on 28-3-2009 by Frogs]

[edit on 28-3-2009 by Frogs]