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Put Up Or Shut Up

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posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 10:16 PM
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There is a real threat facing America today, one that threatens to change our very way of life. We got rid of it once, now I say we get rid of it before it becomes law, this time.



Congress Toll Free
1 877 762 8762


H. R. 163

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the
United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a
period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland
security, and for other purposes.

thomas.loc.gov...:./temp/~c1083Df5vM


S. 89

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the
United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a
period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland
security, and for other purposes.

thomas.loc.gov...:./temp/~c108e4vo5c


This is no longer conspiracy, a draft bill has passed in congress, and is looming over the senate. If it passed congress, it has a chance of passing through the senate. All that has to happen then is for GWB to put his John Hancock on the bill, and it's law.

Now is the time to do our duties as Americans. Write your senators, write your congressmen, and tell them to vote down these bills. For every person who writes, there are 100 people who feel the same way. A letter or an email is a loud shout! I, shortly, will be writing to my senators to vote this bill down. I will also be writing to many opinion programs which are on TV and the radio. Do not let congress pass these bills like a thief in the night. This has gotten NO media attention, and it's time that changed.

Why would you not? It would either take you 15 minutes to find the email address of your senators, write a letter condemning these bills, copy it to all of your congressmen. The alternative is to sulk, say the system doesn't work and feel bad for yourselves, and have to shoot yourself in the foot in a year. Personally, I'd rather take the 15 minutes.

The system does work. If you believe they're all going to get reelected again anyway, and know it, because of the electronic voting, and they don't need to listen to the people, then it is time for you to leave this facist state and move to Canada or England. The choice is yours, but the system does work, if we work the system.



[Edited on 4-20-2004 by junglejake]




posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 10:20 PM
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junglejake, can I ask you why you personally disagree with these bills? I will add my personal opinions after you do.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 10:30 PM
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Because it goes beyond the draft. The draft was instituted, and people were shooting themselves in the foot, or leaving our dear country. If we institute this, where everyone must join the forces, we'll see an even larger insurgance of it. We were at war then, and we are at war now. These kids, who do not want to join, will be forced to, or to leave their families and country, or to maim themselves.

Personally, I have no qualms with joining the military. I applied to get into the Air Force, and was going to be accepted into intel (they said, but who knows, I did take the written test, tho), until the medical exam. Personally, I am exempt from military service, so this doesn't really apply to me.

Howver, think of the moral damage if we go from a volunteer army to a forced army. Right now, everyone who is in our armed services WANTS to be in our armed services. If that changes, troop moral will fall, because a lot of the troops will not want to be there. Especially with the first generation of troops who go in. And now, durring the war against terror, we need a crackerjack military. They need to be Johnny on the spot, and willing to go.

So in summary, I don't want these bills to be passed for the sake of those who don't want to and would refuse to join, and for the sake of our armed services.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 10:32 PM
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Done. I write them about once a month with some crap or another.

The bill I find has somewhat dubious and abstract wording that gives the president quite a large amount of power.

1) All people go where the need is greatest.

2) The president basically can extend that term as long as needed.

All in all, screw this bill.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:02 PM
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JJ your a smart man, you should have seen this coming.
Read that info i sent you, i will send you more if you want. This entire 'war on terrorism' is a power play.
Its about conquest, not protection. This transends all political boundries. They use 'politrix' to divide and conquer. Wanna take a guess at what comes after the draft? Its not hard to figure out. People need to come out of their political camps and unite for justice and peace.
Bush is along the same lines as Nixon, so all you republicans can defend him to your hearts content, but you WILL eat crow before its all said and done. Dont worship a man because he is the same party as you.
thats as ignorant as it gets.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:05 PM
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You know me better then that, aware. I still support Bush because I think he thinks he's doing what is best for the nation, and I agree with him. I'm going through the stuff you gave me, slowly but surely, because I'm crossreferencing it with multiple resources. When I finish going through it, I'll be sure to ask you for more info!



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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I have only one reason why I support these bills. Well, two actually, but they lead back to the same thing. One, they would afford insight into the military tactics of the U.S. government for possible revolutionaries; and, two they would give the people the incentive to revolt. Kind of shortsided I must agree, but the easiest way to revolution the easier it will be to reform the country's stance on every point applicable to citizens..



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:39 PM
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Excuse me, but doesnt the bill also include civil service Or millitary service?

Personally I think that a little hard work and sacrifice for others is exactly what this country needs to stand united, instead on continuing the fragmentation and allienation from one another...turn off the tv and get your ever fattening arses up and do something productive.

Put the rich kids in with the poor and make them all help the elderly, pick up trash, scrub grafiti...do something!!!
This will cross social and economic boundaries and give them a good healthy dose of
Im equal to you, no better or worse.

I can hear it now, much like junglejake;
"Because it goes beyond the draft. The draft was instituted, and people were shooting themselves in the foot, or leaving our dear country. If we institute this, where everyone must join the forces, we'll see an even larger insurgance of it. We were at war then, and we are at war now. These kids, who do not want to join, will be forced to, or to leave their families and country, or to maim themselves. "

Freedom isnt free....
If your willing to mame yourself or flee to another country, then YOU DONT DESERVE THE FREEDOMS OFFERED HERE.
If you cant give something back, why do you get to collect anything in return?
Invest in a common future, not a special intrest fiasco.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:40 PM
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Hmm, I disagree with where you think the bills would lead to, insight. If there was ever a time this nation got close to revolution, it was the 60s. Now look at where all the ex-hippies are. They did get the draft repealed, but now they're all trying to pass stronger drug laws, rights of the establishment, etc. It's just the youth that is going to rise up against this.

As far as revolution goes, too, we have one of those every 2 to 8 years here. It's just non-violent. We can change the laws, we can change the system, through the system. The system allows it's self to be overthrown. If revolution is what you want, then get out there, start protesting, and start supporting and campaigning for candidates that you support. The country's not ready for a 3rd party, but it's getting very close.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Hmm, I disagree with where you think the bills would lead to, insight. If there was ever a time this nation got close to revolution, it was the 60s. Now look at where all the ex-hippies are. They did get the draft repealed, but now they're all trying to pass stronger drug laws, rights of the establishment, etc. It's just the youth that is going to rise up against this.


Youre absolutely right JJ and after reading your post I even laughed out loud at my own idiocy; however, most hippies didn't get picked in the lottery or just outright dodged the draft. And BTW, I do my part to protest for my favored third party. I even feel like I'm converting my staunch republican father to liberalism (in terms of freedom). Thanks for not destroying my argument too bad. I think the only way to real revolt is through a violent revolution.

The bills themselves would be oppression of freedom of choice. But the repercussions of sending those to war who did not want to go would come back to bite the drafters of the legislation in the butt. IMO, of course.

*EDIT: The system was meant to purge itself John Locke style as was envisioned by the forefathers, however the recent trend in Patriot legislation and whatnot is detrimental to the ability of the people to really have control over their own government.

[Edited on 4-20-2004 by insite]



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by CazMedia


Put the rich kids in with the poor and make them all help the elderly, pick up trash, scrub grafiti...do something!!!
This will cross social and economic boundaries and give them a good healthy dose of
Im equal to you, no better or worse.


We hear reports about people in the know having gotten drafted into the National Guard, while people without any connections had to join the infantry and ship out to 'nam. I'm sure most of the civil service jobs will go to those with connections, and those without will be out fighting. There's no reason to believe that the introduction of this bill will change people using their influence for the good of their own offspring.



I can hear it now, much like junglejake;
"Because it goes beyond the draft. The draft was instituted, and people were shooting themselves in the foot, or leaving our dear country. If we institute this, where everyone must join the forces, we'll see an even larger insurgance of it. We were at war then, and we are at war now. These kids, who do not want to join, will be forced to, or to leave their families and country, or to maim themselves. "

Freedom isnt free....
If your willing to mame yourself or flee to another country, then YOU DONT DESERVE THE FREEDOMS OFFERED HERE.
If you cant give something back, why do you get to collect anything in return?
Invest in a common future, not a special intrest fiasco.


As I stated above, I tried to join the Air Force. I am willing to fight and die for this nation. If ever the US was conquored, and an invading army came marching through, I'd be sitting in a clock tower or my cabin in the north woods, shooting at all those soldiers until they took me out. Even against all odds, no retreat, no surrender. Unfortunately, the armed services won't let me in, so I can't fight for my country. I don't have that mentality of "Someone else will do it." That's why I'm writing to my congressmen and women. I want to make this country work, and I want to do so through this country's laws, because those do, too.

If the bills do get past, my children will serve. If they do not, it will be an option encouraged, but not forced on them. Not all people are cut out for the Armed Services. Israel has an interesting setup: If you want to be a citizen of Israel, you need to serve. But you can live there without having to serve. Were we to implement something like that, this current generation wouldn't participate much, but following generations would. To say you're in because you were born here is too inclusive, and doesn't account for the individual.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:54 PM
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This is why I like living in New Zealand.

Our army consists of 3,000 men with Steyr AUG rifles, some Mercedes trucks, a couple of broken down LAVs, and 14 UH-1D Hueys.

We have 4 frigates in our navy and 4 Kaman Sea Sprite helos.
And our air force consists of some C-130F Hercules, 737-300s, some Aeramacchi jet trainers and some smaller prop driven trainers.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by John Gobies
This is why I like living in New Zealand.

Our army consists of 3,000 men with Steyr AUG rifles, some Mercedes trucks, a couple of broken down LAVs, and 14 UH-1D Hueys.

We have 4 frigates in our navy and 4 Kaman Sea Sprite helos.
And our air force consists of some C-130F Hercules, 737-300s, some Aeramacchi jet trainers and some smaller prop driven trainers.


Hell yeah man, I'm from Porirua, Wellington and Howick, Auckland (not Chowick). You underestimate your military potential tough. You didn't hear about how the NZ special forces drove out to a US nuclear sub (SSN) performing manoevers in a zodiac inflatable and took it over and drove it out of New Zealand waters?

Two more years of hearing people saying "America, love it or leave it, bitch!" and I'm moving to Kaitaia, lol.

[Edited on 4-21-2004 by insite]



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by insite
I have only one reason why I support these bills. Well, two actually, but they lead back to the same thing. One, they would afford insight into the military tactics of the U.S. government for possible revolutionaries; and, two they would give the people the incentive to revolt. Kind of shortsided I must agree, but the easiest way to revolution the easier it will be to reform the country's stance on every point applicable to citizens..

Lmao ur a cool mofo



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 12:37 AM
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All this is going to do is train everyone in military tactics.

It will also have alot of angry people learning how to use weapons and how to be a military force.

These angry, trained people will then revolt.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
All this is going to do is train everyone in military tactics.

It will also have alot of angry people learning how to use weapons and how to be a military force.

These angry, trained people will then revolt.


God I hope so saX



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:47 AM
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Just thought id point out that neither of those bills has had any action taken on them since Jan. '03

Thats more than a year. Sounds to me like its hit the floor.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:57 AM
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Just wanted to say, although this bill has died apparently in '03, we still need to voice our opinion so it doesn't ever come up again. But when we do so, be gentle and kind in your emails. Don't attack your senators, or even the bill. Address is, and explain why you think it is wrong. Personal attacks against individuals or attacking a bill without supporting explanation is pretty much useless. You paint yourself as a radical, and are pretty much dismissed.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 03:51 AM
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I'll be making sure to tell my legislators Im in favor of this legislation...politely of course.

specialX,
Revolt is certanly an opiton, but things would have to get pretty bad here (no electricity, food, water for longer than 30 days before i could forsee ANY kind of organized resistance.) I would more see chaos as looting prevailed locally, but as far as an organized widespread thing to overthrow the gov.....things would have to be really bad for this to occur as most of the USA will barley stand up for themselves in a fist fight, let alone civil armed revolution.


JJ
You said;
"Now look at where all the ex-hippies are. They did get the draft repealed, but now they're all trying to pass stronger drug laws, rights of the establishment, etc. It's just the youth that is going to rise up against this. "

So where did the hippies go?
Ya think they grew up and realized the pipe dream that the 60's movements were about? Their great ideas, but in practice are problematic at best...and with the cold reality of the world in their face, perhaps they now see something about "the establishment" they like that they didnt see then.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 05:39 AM
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The main arguement I see for this bill is that "a little hard work would help our young people a lot." The thing you guys seem to be forgetting is that this is America; young people have a CHOICE of wether they want to do hard work or just be bums for the rest of their lives. Sure, it would be wonderful if we lived in this utopia where everyone wanted to do hardwork, but the beauty of America is freedom of choice.

Do we force homeless, street bums to get jobs because it would be good for them? No, we let them choose if they want to live in poverty or make something of themselves. The same logic should apply here.




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